Space Exploration

[Grand Vol]

That is like saying we shouldn't study/build warning systems for tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, etc. because each are relatively rare and only affect certain areas. If people are too stupid to look at all the craters around the world and infer what such a phenomenon happening again (when we have the technology to stop it), then they don't deserve an adequate detection system.

The Spaceguard Program is wholly inadequate. We can survive all of the above (with maybe the exception of Yellowstone). An asteroid/comet would be devastating to all of mankind (and those precious animals and plants). Sadly, we might have to sell the program as the ladder lol

The problem with Spaceguard is the fact it's an international program, but very little governmental cooperation so to speak. Sure scientists look at the greater good and share information, but distrusting governments do and probably would be split on whether to inform the world's population about an impending disaster like an asteroid or comet strike.

It's just not sexy enough to get better funding like a Mars mission or the likes would be. But I agree in principle it's probably in the top three things that should be funded as well as counters.

 

[PKT_VOL]

The problem with Spaceguard is the fact it's an international program, but very little governmental cooperation so to speak. Sure scientists look at the greater good and share information, but distrusting governments do and probably would be split on whether to inform the world's population about an impending disaster like an asteroid or comet strike.

It's such a dumb concern. Paranoia. It is in everyone's best interest.

It's just not sexy enough to get better funding like a Mars mission or the likes would be. But I agree in principle it's probably in the top three things that should be funded as well as counters.

So is ISS research and better observation/listening devices. Then again, if we saw/heard evidence from another form of life, Hollywood would be all over it and everyone would say it's the greatest discovery ever (and any amount of money was worth it).

 

[Grand Vol]

It's such a dumb concern. Paranoia. It is in everyone's best interest.

I'm not disagreeing with you by any means. I think there ought to be better international cooperation on the principle of the Spaceguard program at all levels to include government. But you and I both know that paranoia between governments will override common sense even when we are talking about the sake of the planet.

So is ISS research and better observation/listening devices. Then again, if we saw/heard evidence from another form of life, Hollywood would be all over it and everyone would say it's the greatest discovery ever (and any amount of money was worth it).

We go back to the paranoia principle though. Some would wonder when the sky was falling and the invasion starts and others would be out holding up signs saying "welcome aboard!"

I think the movie "Contact" was highly accurate of what would/could happen. Even with the departure from the book, it showed how the division lines would be formed in such an instance.

 

[Dave1967]

I say NASA should rebuild the program from the ground up since Russia wont let the US use the space station past the current agreement.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I'm not disagreeing with you by any means. I think there ought to be better international cooperation on the principle of the Spaceguard program at all levels to include government. But you and I both know that paranoia between governments will override common sense even when we are talking about the sake of the planet.

I have more faith (maybe just naive hope) that countries will come to their senses (especially after the recent Russian one). However, we are the richest and most technologically advanced country in the world. I wish we'd take a more of a leadership role and invest more heavily into it.

We go back to the paranoia principle though. Some would wonder when the sky was falling and the invasion starts and others would be out holding up signs saying "welcome aboard!"

I think the movie "Contact" was highly accurate of what would/could happen. Even with the departure from the book, it showed how the division lines would be formed in such an instance.

That is assuming they ever make contact. I am just talking about continuing to build out the observation and hearing infrastructure. We could amass evidence of another form of life without ever enter acting with it. Hell, they could have died out long ago but we are just now receiving their light and sound.

 

[Grand Vol]

I say NASA should rebuild the program from the ground up since Russia wont let the US use the space station past the current agreement.

It's not that they won't "let" us use the ISS. It's the fact we have no way of getting there at the current moment and rely on their vehicles to get to and from the ISS.

If push came to shove, I'd say have NASA dump a ton of money on Virgin Galactic and SpaceShip Three or Space-X and the Dragon and get it up and running as a manned orbital vehicle.

Basically a easy fix of flipping the Russians off and saying "eff your trampoline comments."

 

[Dave1967]

It's not that they won't "let" us use the ISS. It's the fact we have no way of getting there at the current moment and rely on their vehicles to get to and from the ISS.

If push came to shove, I'd say have NASA dump a ton of money on Virgin Galactic and SpaceShip Three or Space-X and the Dragon and get it up and running as a manned orbital vehicle.

Basically a easy fix of flipping the Russians off and saying "eff your trampoline comments."

I think the Gov't should do it like the 1960s building it themselves and not leasing it out to private companies.

 

[Grand Vol]

I think the Gov't should do it like the 1960s building it themselves and not leasing it out to private companies.

Even in the 60s it was contracted out. Northrop, McDonald Aircraft and North American Aviation all were the recipients of large contacts to design and build the spacecraft used in the early days. As was North American Rockwell with the STS.

 

[gcbvol]

It's not that they won't "let" us use the ISS. It's the fact we have no way of getting there at the current moment and rely on their vehicles to get to and from the ISS.

If push came to shove, I'd say have NASA dump a ton of money on Virgin Galactic and SpaceShip Three or Space-X and the Dragon and get it up and running as a manned orbital vehicle.

Basically a easy fix of flipping the Russians off and saying "eff your trampoline comments."

Exactly. That's where we end up, I believe. Only a matter of how soon.

 

[Velo Vol]

The Spaceguard Program is wholly inadequate. We can survive all of the above (with maybe the exception of Yellowstone). An asteroid/comet would be devastating to all of mankind (and those precious animals and plants). Sadly, we might have to sell the program as the ladder lol

One issue is that even if we detect, is there anything we can do about it?

Say we had six months extra warning time. Would it ultimately matter?

 

[Grand Vol]

One issue is that even if we detect, is there anything we can do about it?

Say we had six months extra warning time. Would it ultimately matter?

I'd bet Bruce Willis could make it stop.

In seriousness, I'd be willing to bet there is some sort of plan on paper that would/could get up to speed quickly. Six months is a long time, cosmically speaking, to knock an inbound object off it's trajectory. Even a fraction of a degree difference means thousands of miles or more when it arrives at earth.

 

[PKT_VOL]

One issue is that even if we detect, is there anything we can do about it?

Say we had six months extra warning time. Would it ultimately matter?

Yeah. Biggest problem would be trying to figure out what type of thing it is (what it is made of, how it is structured, etc.) which would determine how to go about eliminating the threat.

Right now, we don't have a system that can give us that kind of warning (unless we are incredibly lucky). That is the real problem. There could be a devastating one right now with our name on it (in the neighborhood) and we would be clueless.

 

[Burhead]

I'd bet Bruce Willis could make it stop.

In seriousness, I'd be willing to bet there is some sort of plan on paper that would/could get up to speed quickly. Six months is a long time, cosmically speaking, to knock an inbound object off it's trajectory. Even a fraction of a degree difference means thousands of miles or more when it arrives at earth.

If the US military has an actual plan for zombies I'm damn sure we have at least a contingency plan for an asteroid.

US draws up plans to fight off zombie invasion - Telegraph

 

[Grand Vol]

Yeah. Biggest problem would be trying to figure out what type of thing it is (what it is made of, how it is structured, etc.) which would determine how to go about eliminating the threat.

Right now, we don't have a system that can give us that kind of warning (unless we are incredibly lucky). That is the real problem. There could be a devastating one right now with our name on it (in the neighborhood) and we would be clueless.

The problem being that even with early warning systems, we still don't know enough about the outer solar system (specifically the Scattered Disc, Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud) to be able to make a definitive answer that "yes, we are safe." An object of 10 km in diameter would hit with enough force for an ELE. And how easy is it to detect said object in the outer solar system before we determine it to be on a ballistic trajectory?

Jupiter does us a lot of favors by being the cosmic vacuum cleaner for a lot of the would be Aten or Apollo category asteroids, but it's not always going to work. And I agree that some form of early warning should be in place. But even then it might not be enough.

 

[PKT_VOL]

The problem being that even with early warning systems, we still don't know enough about the outer solar system (specifically the Scattered Disc, Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud) to be able to make a definitive answer that "yes, we are safe." An object of 10 km in diameter would hit with enough force for an ELE. And how easy is it to detect said object in the outer solar system before we determine it to be on a ballistic trajectory?

Jupiter does us a lot of favors by being the cosmic vacuum cleaner for a lot of the would be Aten or Apollo category asteroids, but it's not always going to work. And I agree that some form of early warning should be in place. But even then it might not be enough.

I'm not sure you are ever going to have an infallible system. However, our current system is terrible. When the consequences of not building a (better) warning system (when you have the technology) is the fate of all of humanity, then I think it is silly not to have it as humanity's top space priority.

Edit: You are right about Jupiter (and Saturn/Neptune to an extent). It saves our ass. Maybe the ancients were wise to worship them.

 

[Grand Vol]

I'm not sure you are ever going to have an infallible system. However, our current system is terrible. When the consequences of not building a (better) warning system (when you have the technology) is the fate of all of humanity, then I think it is silly not to have it as humanity's top space priority.

Edit: You are right about Jupiter (and Saturn/Neptune to an extent). It saves our ass. Maybe the ancients were wise to worship them.

I'd actually say Neptune might cause more problems than you think. Being that it can perturb the orbits of SDOs, it could be the factor that changes an orbit enough to fling something our way. Cosmically speaking, even a nudge in the right (or wrong depending on your outlook) direction can pull an SDO out of orbit where it gets more influenced by the Sun.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I'd actually say Neptune might cause more problems than you think. Being that it can perturb the orbits of SDOs, it could be the factor that changes an orbit enough to fling something our way. Cosmically speaking, even a nudge in the right (or wrong depending on your outlook) direction can pull an SDO out of orbit where it gets more influenced by the Sun.

It does, but it also vacuums a lot of stuff that is on the outer edge of the solar system. Give and take situation.

 

[Grand Vol]

It does, but it also vacuums a lot of stuff that is on the outer edge of the solar system. Give and take situation.

Even vacuum cleaners miss picking up stuff from time to time.

Which is why I'm all about the manned exploration and colonization of space myself. The more people we can get off this rock and be self sufficient on other worlds, the better chance of the survival of mankind as a species.

 

[Burhead]

Even vacuum cleaners miss picking up stuff from time to time.

Which is why I'm all about the manned exploration and colonization of space myself. The more people we can get off this rock and be self sufficient on other worlds, the better chance of the survival of mankind as a species.

Exactly what I said earlier. Humanity's survival is dependent on us some day leaving Earth. If we don't we're frakked.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Even vacuum cleaners miss picking up stuff from time to time.

Which is why I'm all about the manned exploration and colonization of space myself. The more people we can get off this rock and be self sufficient on other worlds, the better chance of the survival of mankind as a species.

We are still a long ways from that being viable. Like I stated before, a one way trip to Mars should be the eventual goal.

In the very long-term, I think building self-replicating robots and/or taping into the mathematical/information/code structure of the universe will be the key to survival/everlasting life.

 

[Velo Vol]

When the consequences of not building a (better) warning system (when you have the technology) is the fate of all of humanity, then I think it is silly not to have it as humanity's top space priority.

What needs done to improve the warning system?

 

[PKT_VOL]

What needs done to improve the warning system?

Build out more observation infrastructure (both hardware and software) and hire more astronomers to scan the skies. The better the first part is, the less you need of the latter.

 

[Grand Vol]

We are still a long ways from that being viable. Like I stated before, a one way trip to Mars should be the eventual goal.

I don't think it's as far off as you think. I mean, we went to the moon and back 40 years ago and then entered the lull in space exploration. From a manned standpoint at least. So had we kept on track after the Apollo missions, the ability for a successful Mars expedition probably could have been realized in the 80s with or without the Soviet Union's help at the time. And long term lunar bases and continually manned orbital platforms would most certainly have been achievable at the same time. But we as humans kind of got bored with the going into space thing and went more towards the probe aspect of exploration. Sometimes with good reason though.

I think a Mars expedition is more than within our grasp technically right now and money/priorities is the only thing holding it up. You can't tell me the technology and ability for such a mission isn't right there just waiting to be launched (pun intended).

 

[PKT_VOL]

I don't think it's as far off as you think. I mean, we went to the moon and back 40 years ago and then entered the lull in space exploration. From a manned standpoint at least. So had we kept on track after the Apollo missions, the ability for a successful Mars expedition probably could have been realized in the 80s with or without the Soviet Union's help at the time. And long term lunar bases and continually manned orbital platforms would most certainly have been achievable at the same time. But we as humans kind of got bored with the going into space thing and went more towards the probe aspect of exploration. Sometimes with good reason though.

I think a Mars expedition is more than within our grasp technically right now and money/priorities is the only thing holding it up. You can't tell me the technology and ability for such a mission isn't right there just waiting to be launched (pun intended).

If we were just going to go to the Mars for a quick visit, sure. Going there and building a sustainable place to live without new supplies for very long periods of time, no.

 

[Grand Vol]

Exactly what I said earlier. Humanity's survival is dependent on us some day leaving Earth. If we don't we're frakked.

I never disagreed with you. I think we're way overdue to continue in the footsteps of Gagarin, Leonov and Armstrong and realizing the dreams of Goddard, Oberth, Von Braun and Korolev.