Something that hasn't been mentioned...

#51
#51
I don't think Shoop is the problem. I think whoever is aligning players on the field has messed up or changed something that he shouldn't have. Even the CBS announcer said it, regarding one of the Bama runs.

Shoop is in the box. Jancek wasn't. So I think players haven't fully adapted to that yet. Communication could get funky at times.
 
#53
#53
Dougie_D said:
I don't think Shoop is the problem. I think whoever is aligning players on the field has messed up or changed something that he shouldn't have. Even the CBS announcer said it, regarding one of the Bama runs.

Shoop is in the box. Jancek wasn't. So I think players haven't fully adapted to that yet. Communication could get funky at times.
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Then he's the problem. It's all his responsibility. Nothing else has changed other than we're actually more talented and have more depth than last year's team. He gets a bit of a pass, but not much, the last two weeks given the injuries.

Look, there's no way anyone was more excited than me when Butch hired him. I thought it was a great hire and still can be. But at this point, he just hadn't done nearly as good a job as I thought he would.....not even close
 
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#54
#54
KBVol said:
Our defense is currently ranked 80th in the country in total offense, down 28 spots from 2015.

Our defense is currently ranked 88th in the country in total defense, down 52 spots from last year.

Our offense has generally not been good except in bursts, no argument there. But our defense has been bad all year long with the exception of the second half vs Florida and here and there vs most everybody else except for Alabama, where we were horrific all game long.

This defense doesn't tackle well, is constantly out of position, it never, ever sets the edge to attempt to turn perimeter plays back in where there's help. It equally has gotten consistently gashed up the middle. And of course, it's like a Madden game when teams throw deep on us and not one single db on the team has shown any tendency to even consider looking back for the football.

We gave up a 100 yard rusher to App State, a 100 yd rusher to Va Tech, a 150+ yard receiver to Ohio, a 300 yard passer to a backup qb and a 130+ yd receiver vs Florida, a 200 yard rusher and a 100 yard rusher, and now two 100 yard rushers vs Bama. So, we've consistently allowed a lot of yards and some very big individual performances in every game we've played in addition to just being generally bad for the majority of the game across the board.

IMHO, Derek Barnett is literally the ONLY true positive associated with our defense this year. Shoop has simply been a disappointment thus far, injuries or no injuries.
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You can't go by the current stats/rankings. We still have games to be played.

Go back and figure out the stats for the first 7 games of last year and then compare.
 
#55
#55
fade route said:
Jeremy Pruitt is in his first year as D Coordinator at Bama. Granted he has better players, but they don't have many blown assignments so it looks like they're picking up the system pretty well.
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Their defense is exactly the same. It is Saban' s defense not Pruitt's.
 
#56
#56
I heard Shoop learned the terminology used before so the players wouldn't have to learn a "new System". They are playing the same 4-2-5 system as years past.

Defense wasn't all that tight before the injuries. JMO
 
#57
#57
Fijivol72 said:
The genius was his own worst enemy by saying before the season no one would run on us. Now he is wiping that poop off his face.
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To be fair and honest he qualified those statements saying IF we didn't lose Maybin, Kirkland, or Sutton.....Oh wait...WE LOST ALL THREE!!!!.
 
#58
#58
This whole notion of Year Zero and adapting to new systems needs to be put to bed.

If a coordinator can't keep his system simple enough for the players to learn, then maybe he isn't that great of a coordinator.

A lot of the blame can rightly be put on losing 3 All SEC caliber players in Sutton, Maybin, and Kirkland along with the others this team has lost to injury.

But that doesn't account for the blatant lack of fundamentals out of the secondary players or the inability to set the edge on obvious running plays.
 
#59
#59
Dougie_D said:
You can't go by the current stats/rankings. We still have games to be played.

Go back and figure out the stats for the first 7 games of last year and then compare.
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Yes and no. If I do that it's only gonna strengthen my argument IMO. For example, last year at this time in the season we had played 2 outstanding OOC offenses, BGSU and Oklahoma....replace them with App State and Va Tech. So, we played two much more productive, even prolific offenses last year with better results than the two average to bad ones this year.

That being said, when I get a chance I'll try to go back and look at the numbers and post them.
 
#60
#60
wesleydmartin said:
im good with shoop, his second half adjustments have proved to do us well for the majority of the season, maybe not everyone is happy but i aint upset at shoop.....
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been waiting a long time for this to happen after having seen it happen at so many other schools....
 
#61
#61
wmcovol said:
I heard Shoop learned the terminology used before so the players wouldn't have to learn a "new System". They are playing the same 4-2-5 system as years past.

Defense wasn't all that tight before the injuries. JMO
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Spot on. So many excuses for Shoop by so many on here at this point. The OPs point simply isn't valid as many of us are empirically pointing out. His defense simply is not sound this year. Teams are running all over us, passing all over us, and scoring on us at a much higher clip than last year. Yes, he's made some nice second half adjustments at times, he gets kudos for that....but what does that say about his initial game plans which have been bad and have required significant adjustments to stop the massive bleeding from early in the game?
 
#62
#62
jeff1vol said:
regarding the defense.

I see A LOT of fans, etc. questioning Shoop and the defensive production, but not ONCE has anyone mentioned that this is YEAR ONE of a brand new defense.

Considering that... I think that the defense has done very well.

Yes, we've been gashed here or there, but isn't that normal when instituting a brand new scheme? Shouldn't those breakdowns be expected in the first year.

I believe so.

IMO... before anyone can really start critiquing, let's give it ample time for implementation.
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If your defense from the last season is crap and you change DCs, you get time to implement.

If you defense was already good and you make the change, there will be little patience with taking a step back.

The initial reaction to axing Jancek and hiring Shoop was positive, but despite injuries, the statistics show a giant leap backwards in defensive performance this season compared to last.

So, no, your argument for implementation time will fall on mostly deaf ears.
 
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#63
#63
fade route said:
Jeremy Pruitt is in his first year as D Coordinator at Bama. Granted he has better players, but they don't have many blown assignments so it looks like they're picking up the system pretty well.
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"Better players" is an understatement. Bama has a 5* player as the 1st or 2nd string player at every position on their defense. Tennessee only has one 5* player on our entire team, and he just tore his pectoral muscle.

Look at it this way, the main difference between college and the NFL is speed. Everyone in the NFL is big and fast. It's why you don't see running QBs dominate like they do in college. Recruiting rankings also incorporate speed and power into their rankings. A 5* defensive player is going to be bigger and faster than a 4* player. Sometimes you get lucky with a Barnett or Sutton that plays like a 5*, but players typically play around their star ranking.
 
#64
#64
jeff1vol said:
regarding the defense.

I see A LOT of fans, etc. questioning Shoop and the defensive production, but not ONCE has anyone mentioned that this is YEAR ONE of a brand new defense.

Considering that... I think that the defense has done very well.

Yes, we've been gashed here or there, but isn't that normal when instituting a brand new scheme? Shouldn't those breakdowns be expected in the first year.

I believe so.

IMO... before anyone can really start critiquing, let's give it ample time for implementation.
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The Defense definitely has a lot more excuses than the Offfense!

Offensively we have had the same players, coaches and scheme for the past few years with a pretty flat trajectory
 
#66
#66
Not being rude but I would honestly appreciate the alternatives.

If we discount the injuries and we discount the 1st year,okay. I've read legitimate points. But offer your theory also please.

I mean what's left? Are we saying that he went from this great powerful defense with the stats to back it up, to - he woke up one day and sucks? Or what?
 
#67
#67
I think this is not true.

I don't see it take Ohio State take several years to get their defense going when Meyer arrived.

I didn't see Michigan take several years for their defense to get going when Harbaugh arrived.

I can keep going but i don't think i need too.
 
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#68
#68
Next season it would be smart to list all players and coaches on the injury report; therefore no stupid questions will be asked. See Injury Report!!!
 
#69
#69
His defensive adjustments, were a major part of a Vol victory breaking a streak over the hated gators, you know the team down south that 75% of us VN posters were willing to sell our souls to beat? Now we have people scurrying like rats abandoning ship that the devil's here to collect with a loss or two?? Really?? Nut up duddettes.
 
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#70
#70
I understand that Shoop makes good adjustments at halftime. What I have a question about is everyone scoring on either the first or second possession on us. Don't we have any scouting reports on these teams? We are always behind a step or two until we figure out in the 3rd quarter what to do. By then we're 21 pts down.
 
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#72
#72
jeff1vol said:
regarding the defense.

I see A LOT of fans, etc. questioning Shoop and the defensive production, but not ONCE has anyone mentioned that this is YEAR ONE of a brand new defense.

Considering that... I think that the defense has done very well.

Yes, we've been gashed here or there, but isn't that normal when instituting a brand new scheme? Shouldn't those breakdowns be expected in the first year.

I believe so.

IMO... before anyone can really start critiquing, let's give it ample time for implementation.
Click to expand...

This argument is dumb. Alabama has a new DC this year too. Is it YEAR ONE for them?
 
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#73
#73
When your offense consistently goes 3 and out the defense is going to wear down.
I'm much more worried about the offense, and Deborah needs to go.
 
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