Put up or Shut up Time for Coach Martin

[D.C. Vol]

You're exactly right. When Bruce was removed it set our program back, only because we didnt hire a qualified replacement.

What exactly were the restrictions CM had to deal with? serious question...

Yeah, coaches like Shaka Smart were so willing to come here when our administration displayed it's incompetence during the whole Pearl Gate scandal. Supporting a coach and then firing him when you deem it convenient isn't going lure any big fish...Nor is the petty cash we were offering the others.

 

[VolGee4]

I don't give a damn about the NFL. Martin might be 60-40, but he's got a goose egg in the tourney, and that's what matters. Dave Hart said it himself. Martin is most likely gone. If not this year, definitely next.

In no way did you respond to what I said- nice way to change the subject. I don't give a damn about school anymore, so I don't have to care about what a 60 is on the grading scale.

 

[drewtigeralum]

you've got to be kidding. He should have gotten a slap on the wrist. The only thing he did wrong was get caught. If you aint cheatin you aint trying! Others simply get away with it.

This isn't a hard concept to understand. Bruce Pearl came to Tennessee under scrutiny from the NCAA, because of his role in "Thomas scandal" between Illinois and Iowa when he was an assistant coach. He had a reputation as someone who was willing to bend the rules if it fit his purpose. He made the NCAA and Iowa look really scummy when the facts of the case came out.

Flash forward to Bruce Peal lying to the NCAA again, and not only that, but instructing other people to lie as well.

Bruce Pearl didn't get a job on the division 1 level for a long time because of his questionable integrity. He had a chance to fess up and take a slap on the wrist, but he proved all of his detractors right by once again showing his lack of integrity when given the opportunity. Bruce Pearl is a good basketball coach but is as morally corrupt as they come.

 

[KingtUT]

Yeah, coaches like Shaka Smart were so willing to come here when our administration displayed it's incompetence during the whole Pearl Gate. Supporting a coach and then firing him when you deem it convenient isn't going lure any big fish...Nor is the petty cash we were offering the others.

So you dont argue that he wasnt / isnt qualified? Thats a start...

It seems like you just support CM because he happens to be our coach right now. I can somewhat understand that approach because I had it with Dooley for a year longer than I should have. I kept making excuses and looking for reasons why I should support him, but in the end I realized I was working way to hard to cover for all of his faults. The lesson I learned is this, like the old saying goes....if it looks like a dog, sounds like a dog, walks like a dog , and eats like a dog, the chances are real freakin good that it is actually a dog.

At this point CM looks mediocre, talks mediocre, has a mediocre record, and continues to finish in the middle of a very mediocre SEC. My best guess is....he's never gonna be anything but mediocre.

That aint good enough for me.

 

[KingtUT]

This isn't a hard concept to understand. Bruce Pearl came to Tennessee under scrutiny from the NCAA, because of his role in "Thomas scandal" between Illinois and Iowa when he was an assistant coach. He had a reputation as someone who was willing to bend the rules if it fit his purpose. He made the NCAA and Iowa look really scummy when the facts of the case came out.

Flash forward to Bruce Peal lying to the NCAA again, and not only that, but instructing other people to lie as well.

Bruce Pearl didn't get a job on the division 1 level for a long time because of his questionable integrity. He had a chance to fess up and take a slap on the wrist, but he proved all of his detractors right by once again showing his lack of integrity when given the opportunity. Bruce Pearl is a good basketball coach but is as morally corrupt as they come.

A few white lies doesnt make him morally corrupt IMO

 

[drewtigeralum]

At this point CM looks mediocre, talks mediocre, has a mediocre record, and continues to finish in the middle of a very mediocre SEC. My best guess is....he's never gonna be anything but mediocre.

That aint good enough for me.

Just for you know, the sake of reality. U.T. has finished:

2nd
5th
4th

If I'm doing the math correctly he has finished in the upper 1/4 of the conference every year.

 

[VolArmy74]

The fact that we have gotten anything from Reese, who averaged 9 ppg as a HS senior (not at a stud-filled prep school either) is amazing.

He has finally become more than a 3-point shooter with a slow release. He has majorly improved as a defender (still room for more improvement), and if not for Stokes and Maymon being elite rebounders, Reese might be our best.

He has greatly overachieved in contrast with my expectations. He's not the guy you want to build your team around, but he is an important role player.

With better game management and better PG play, we can win with less talent. CCM is learning on the job, and that's not really his fault, but he needs to speed up the process or the problem will be corrected one way or another.

As for Landry, that situation was bungled, but if he brings him in, then he is ridiculed for it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. We likely aren't recruiting a lot of kids from Huntington Prep anyway, so the damage is sustainable relative to wasting a scholarship on a player who wouldn't hack it.

Everyone and their blind mother could see Landry had no business being on a roster at this level. Zo should have cut him loose much much earlier in the process.

Reese being somewhat better than what he looked like he might be in high school isn't the same as Reese being a player that will help you win games at this level.

So far we've gotten basically 0 from Pops, Yemi, Washpun, Chevious, Reese, and Edwards.

I'll give a pass on AJ Davis and Hubbs due to freshman/injuries.

We've gotten good play from Moore, very good play from Josh, good play from Barton, good for a freshman from Thompson, great from Stokes.

So basically 50/50 on hits and misses recruiting so far imo. That makes it extremely tough to succeed and we'll feel the pinch of next years guys aren't overachievers. You can afford to miss on a player or two every 4 years, but not 50 percent of your recruits.

 

[VolGee4]

Everyone and their blind mother could see Landry had no business being on a roster at this level. Zo should have cut him loose much much earlier in the process.

Reese being somewhat better than what he looked like he might be in high school isn't the same as Reese being a player that will help you win games at this level.

So far we've gotten basically 0 from Pops, Yemi, Washpun, Chevious, Reese, and Edwards.

I'll give a pass on AJ Davis and Hubbs due to freshman/injuries.

We've gotten good play from Moore, very good play from Josh, good play from Barton, good for a freshman from Thompson, great from Stokes.

So basically 50/50 on hits and misses recruiting so far imo. That makes it extremely tough to succeed and we'll feel the pinch of next years guys aren't overachievers. You can afford to miss on a player or two every 4 years, but not 50 percent of your recruits.

We didn't need help from Washpun. He was a roster filler for one year. You really can't count him. I agree that it would have been nice to get some quality minutes from someone other than Stokes last year (because Maymon was out).

The one single issue through now (not talking about next year) has been the lack of a steady PG. Martin was hired too late to get one his first year, but he missed on a couple in his second. We needed a steady PG to put Trae at the 2. That hurt last year.

I actually think next year could be better than people think. Moore could become a good 25 minute/game player if he continues to improve. I think whoever coaches needs to sit down with Moore, Reese, and Davis and tell them to bust their ass working on their offensive game during the offseason. All 3 have potential to be a mismatch if they improve.

 

[drewtigeralum]

So you dont argue that he wasnt / isnt qualified? Thats a start...

It seems like you just support CM because he happens to be our coach right now. I can somewhat understand that approach because I had it with Dooley for a year longer than I should have. I kept making excuses and looking for reasons why I should support him but in the end I realized I was working way to hard to cover for all of Dooleys faults. The lesson I learned is this, like the old saying goes....if it looks like a dog, sounds like a dog, walks like a dog , and eats like a dog, the chances are real freakin good that it is actually a dog.

At this point CM looks mediocre, talks mediocre, has a mediocre record, and continues to finish in the middle of a very mediocre SEC. My best guess is....he's never gonna be anything but mediocre.

That aint good enough for me.

A few white lies doesnt make him morally corrupt IMO

It was more than just a few "white lies".

Read this and get back to me.

Bruce Pearl

 

[monkeymantn]

Just for you know, the sake of reality. U.T. has finished:

2nd
5th
4th

If I'm doing the math correctly he has finished in the upper 1/4 of the conference every year.

If I'm doing the math correctly, then they only finished one year in the "upper 1/4 of the conference".

2nd (16.67%)
5th (41.67%)
4th (28.57%)

 

[drewtigeralum]

Everyone and their blind mother could see Landry had no business being on a roster at this level. Zo should have cut him loose much much earlier in the process.

Reese being somewhat better than what he looked like he might be in high school isn't the same as Reese being a player that will help you win games at this level.

So far we've gotten basically 0 from Pops, Yemi, Washpun, Chevious, Reese, and Edwards.

I'll give a pass on AJ Davis and Hubbs due to freshman/injuries.

We've gotten good play from Moore, very good play from Josh, good play from Barton, good for a freshman from Thompson, great from Stokes.

So basically 50/50 on hits and misses recruiting so far imo. That makes it extremely tough to succeed and we'll feel the pinch of next years guys aren't overachievers. You can afford to miss on a player or two every 4 years, but not 50 percent of your recruits.

Martin signed his first class after these players had finished playing their senior season in basketball. He had to roll the dice on kids to fill the roster. You don't sign good players when you've only recruited them for a few months. Unless you blame Martin for not recruiting players to U.T. before he was U.T.'s coach his first class has to be overlooked. That's just what happens when you fire a coach. Unless you are a destination program, you're next class is always going to be questionable. This is especially true when you have to go out and sign 5 or 6.

 

[KingtUT]

If I'm doing the math correctly, then they only finished one year in the "upper 1/4 of the conference".

2nd (16.67%)
5th (41.67%)
4th (28.57%)

:clap::hi:

 

[drewtigeralum]

If I'm doing the math correctly, then they only finished one year in the "upper 1/4 of the conference".

2nd (16.67%)
5th (41.67%)
4th (28.57%)

Good point, my math wasn't correct. Upper 1/3 of the conference. Still 5th and 4th are far from mid pack in a 14 teams S.E.C.

 

[UTBasketball2]

A few white lies doesnt make him morally corrupt IMO

It doesn't, but those pathetic white lies messed the program up.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Dave Hart said it best: basketball success is measured by the post season. And Cuonzo has none.

Except this year of course lol

 

[monkeymantn]

Good point, my math wasn't correct. Upper 1/3 of the conference. Still 5th and 4th are far from mid pack in a 14 teams S.E.C.

I'm not trying to argue here, I was using the rankings you provided as 3 years ago, 2 years ago, and last year; last year being the only year with 14 teams in the conference. If the 5th rating is based as last year's final ranking, then they will be (35.71%). Either way, we are Tennessee, and in my opinion we deserve more than a coach that ends every season slightly better than mediocre. Just my $0.02.

 

[Poppa T]

Just for you know, the sake of reality. U.T. has finished:

2nd
5th
4th

If I'm doing the math correctly he has finished in the upper 1/4 of the conference every year.

Notwithstanding your math, let's put the reality into context:
* 2nd in SEC - #1 Seed NIT, Lost to #4 seed MSTU in 2nd round.
* 5th in the SEC - #2 Seed NIT Lost to #7 seed Mercer in 1st round.
* 4th - "Play-in" seed in NCAAT. Outcome TBD

 

[drewtigeralum]

:clap::hi:

Still waiting for you to explain how this is mid pack. opcorn:

 

[drewtigeralum]

Notwithstanding your math, let's put the reality into context:
* 2nd in SEC - #1 Seed NIT, Lost to #4 seed MSTU in 2nd round.
* 5th in the SEC - #2 Seed NIT Lost to #7 seed Mercer in 1st round.
* 4th - "Play-in" seed in NCAAT. Outcome TBD

I was responding to the "mid pack in the S.E.C." portion of the post. Which simply isn't true. Also A&M and Mizzo were added in the 5th place season.

This wasn't in response to your post. My fault.

 

[Lefteye]

Still waiting for you to explain how this is mid pack. opcorn:

Just don't expect much of an answer and you won't be disappointed.

 

[SlyStone]

This is setting up for a good laugh if we make the sweet 16 or even rd of 32. A sad little laugh where CCM moves to a Big10 job for a 50% raise, and then laughs as VN panics and blames Dave Hart when our top 15 candidates won't even interview for the job he just vacated and we end up with the coach of the 3d best NIT qualifier from the mountain west.

That my friend would be a nightmare, but you're not alone in thinking it. If CCM finds success somehow I wouldn't be surprised if he bolted.

 

[cncchris33]

Everyone and their blind mother could see Landry had no business being on a roster at this level. Zo should have cut him loose much much earlier in the process.

Reese being somewhat better than what he looked like he might be in high school isn't the same as Reese being a player that will help you win games at this level.

So far we've gotten basically 0 from Pops, Yemi, Washpun, Chevious, Reese, and Edwards.

I'll give a pass on AJ Davis and Hubbs due to freshman/injuries.

We've gotten good play from Moore, very good play from Josh, good play from Barton, good for a freshman from Thompson, great from Stokes.

So basically 50/50 on hits and misses recruiting so far imo. That makes it extremely tough to succeed and we'll feel the pinch of next years guys aren't overachievers. You can afford to miss on a player or two every 4 years, but not 50 percent of your recruits.

Drew touched on it, but nothing in his first class should count against him.

Reese is a contributor. He is one of the first off the bench and is a role player who fits his role well. No one is calling him, or would ever mistake him for more than a complimentary player. That is a lot more than anyone expected, as many had crossed him off the roster at this time in both of the past two seasons.

Ndiaye is a project who didn't pan out. Edwards was a JUCO kid who never learned to defend at an acceptable level.

Outside of that, Stokes, Richardson, Moore, Hubbs, Thompson, Davis have all shown an ability to play at this level.

If I left anyone out, it was unintentional, but as I said before, I'm okay with CCM's talent evaluation and recruiting to this point. I'm okay with the projects or "second-tier" recruits too because he and his staff have demonstrated an ability to develop players.

I have much larger questions about his ability to manage a team and make adjustments within a game.

 

[Fatman Photos]

Except the part where this didn't actually happen, but is another oft repeated lie, like the bump violation.

I honestly believe Pearl will reach the elite 8 again before Martin ever does.

In the summer of 2008, Pearl invited high school junior Aaron Craft and members of his family to a cookout at his Knoxville home while Craft was on an unofficial visit to Tennessee. At the cookout, Pearl said that Craft wasn't allowed to be there under NCAA rules, but encouraged all those in attendance not to tell anyone about it. When the NCAA began an investigation of the affair, Pearl not only lied about the cookout, but also told Craft's father to lie as well.
On September 10, 2010, Pearl acknowledged the violations in the Craft affair, and also admitted lying about it to the NCAA.

 

[VolArmy74]

In the summer of 2008, Pearl invited high school junior Aaron Craft and members of his family to a cookout at his Knoxville home while Craft was on an unofficial visit to Tennessee. At the cookout, Pearl said that Craft wasn't allowed to be there under NCAA rules, but encouraged all those in attendance not to tell anyone about it. When the NCAA began an investigation of the affair, Pearl not only lied about the cookout, but also told Craft's father to lie as well.
On September 10, 2010, Pearl acknowledged the violations in the Craft affair, and also admitted lying about it to the NCAA.

Craft's father said Pearl never asked him to lie. It's hard to beat that for a source.

 

[Fatman Photos]

OK so is it the truth or not? Did Craft's father tell the truth or not. The world will never know. But had Sir Bruce fessed up to begin with, then he would have just got a slap on the wrist and that would have been that, But NO, he had to lie to try and cover his tail. How did that work out for him?