Playoff Expansion

[MyVolsDropped]

Why can't they just implement something similar to the NFL? Or March Madness from basketball?

 

[Other_Guy]

I'd take 6 but prefer 8, although right now 4 is fine because we can't even get good semifinals.

I don't buy the argument that it devalues the regular season, if it goes to 8. More than that I think it would but 8 you're still talking a small percentage getting a shot. And if you make 5 of the spots reserved for P5 conference champs and maybe 1 spot reserved for the highest non-P5 team, that's still only 2 at large spots that everyone else is fighting over. It also puts more emphasis on winning your conference, which seems to be something people complain about not mattering as much anymore.

But I'd take expanding to 6 if that's all they'll agree on.

We just eliminated Georgia, Wisconsin Baylor and Utah. Why on earth would we put them back in?

 

[TNnative]

Not you don’t pass judgment too quickly

Probably true. But never open by suggesting we return to the AP and UPI nonsense. Some of us were well out of diapers when that nonsense was happening. Try going to the local barber shop when that nonsense is being discussed. Let's just say you do not want to be in the chair at that moment. Or, God forbid, getting a shave. Actually, on re-reading, there might be some slight argument for your ending. But save the stupid stuff to end with. Don't open with it.

And as for passing judgement too quickly? I have an excuse. Impeachment coverage was on at the time. That is why you opening with that seemed as stupid as congress.

 

[garbear]

They have to expand to make sure bama is in.

 

[TNnative]

Why can't they just implement something similar to the NFL? Or March Madness from basketball?

The NFL has 32 teams. D-1 college football has over 4X as many. If somebody created a second competition, like a D-1 elite and a D-1 developing (effectively reducing the number of teams competing for the title), some of the NFL type models might be more viable. But with that many teams and that many voices needing to agree on what is fair? That is the major reason why NFL type things to college football won't be considered.

And as to March Madness? I don't know, you would have to be more specific. But there are even more schools involved in the basketball scenarios. Both are contact sports, but football is more of an impact sport. And if it includes more games? That just gets the so called medical experts stirred up.

 

[82_VOL_83]

For those of you talking about the FCS style of play. Please keep this in mind. Players in the FCS "generally" have less at stake than the FBS players. Therefore FCS can stand the extra game or 2. In April this year, there were 2 players short of 3 players per NFL team from the FCS. That's on the 53 man roster. There are literally less than 10% of the NFL rosters made up of FCS players. I'm not seeing using the FCS model for teams whose players make up over 90% of the NFL. I don't believe any team is going to willingly give up a cupcake home game. If anything we will be back to giving up the home and away against the better teams. We will have 11 games of which 9 will be conference and 2 cupcakes. We will still play a conference championship which is the game I had rather see go away vs a good regular season game. However, adopting some model where the conference champs get in from the P5 and then some other teams cheapens the regular season except for the conference games. I was one of those happy with the BCS. I thought that pretty much every year they got it right or within one team of getting it right. However, I am one of those that doesn't "just have to know". I liked the old bowl system where we argued about who was the champion. The 3rd or 4th place team actually had a chance to be awarded the title depending on how the teams above them played. I know a lot of you don't remember but that is one of the major things that made the Sugar Vols so sweet. We wrecked Miami's season that year and it was oh so nice!

 

[Atlanta917]

I agree. No need for expansion when we haven’t had a strong 4 seed in years. Once we have multiple deserving teams competing for the fourth spot, then expansion can be discussed. I can’t think of a year when there were 5 or 6 teams with a legitimate argument for #1.

 

[TNnative]

We just eliminated Georgia, Wisconsin Baylor and Utah. Why on earth would we put them back in?

This year, there is no arguments. The committee had an easy job of it, because the season played out that way. Other years? It is not so cut and dry. There have been and will actually be viable arguments for more teams to be in. Like a undefeated UCF with Frost. I know most football elitist attitude folks don't think they are an issue, but that was a damn good team. And in the future? We could be that damn good team ranked number 5. Shut out because the committee decide the Pac-12, big ten, big twelve and ACC champions will be "more deserving." It could happen over a weak out of conference strength of schedule, a down year for the conference teams we play and who is on the committee.

Imagine this: Vols finish the regular season 12-0. But LSU is 12-0 too. Vols go to Atlanta. Lose by 1 point, probably over a bad call by the refs. Selection day comes. Ohio State, Clemson and Oklahoma State and UCLA win their conferences, one of them undefeated or and the others with 1 close loss. We are out of the championship series. We go to a major bowl, and kick the crap out of whoever we play. Ranked fifth or sixth going into it. But we leave no doubt.

Now, I am sure most of us will be proud as punch over that end of a season. But, how many of our players would be saying we deserved a spot over the joke teams that got in? How many of us will be lighting up this forum because we got screwed? How many of us will be be calling for expansion then? And how many of us will hate playing cupcakes then?

Anything they can change that devalues the impact of polls and opinion? I support that. Let the players decide who is champion. Not, as I once told my Dad years before he passed, "Not some old fart sports writer sitting at a desk, chomping on a cigar, typing his next story, and getting off because he voted for who is named champion." Or a room full of ADs and other people who haven't played for years or never strapped on pads once.

 

[TNnative]

For those of you talking about the FCS style of play. Please keep this in mind. Players in the FCS "generally" have less at stake than the FBS players. Therefore FCS can stand the extra game or 2. In April this year, there were 2 players short of 3 players per NFL team from the FCS. That's on the 53 man roster. There are literally less than 10% of the NFL rosters made up of FCS players. I'm not seeing using the FCS model for teams whose players make up over 90% of the NFL. I don't believe any team is going to willingly give up a cupcake home game. If anything we will be back to giving up the home and away against the better teams. We will have 11 games of which 9 will be conference and 2 cupcakes. We will still play a conference championship which is the game I had rather see go away vs a good regular season game. However, adopting some model where the conference champs get in from the P5 and then some other teams cheapens the regular season except for the conference games. I was one of those happy with the BCS. I thought that pretty much every year they got it right or within one team of getting it right. However, I am one of those that doesn't "just have to know". I liked the old bowl system where we argued about who was the champion. The 3rd or 4th place team actually had a chance to be awarded the title depending on how the teams above them played. I know a lot of you don't remember but that is one of the major things that made the Sugar Vols so sweet. We wrecked Miami's season that year and it was oh so nice!

Dream on. They make more money playing three cupcakes. But yeah, I remember the Sugar Vols. And the sweetness of it is felt every time I see Jimmy Johnson or Michael Irvin on TV. In the post Neyland years, that is the most long term lasting reason to say it's great to be a Tennessee Vol. However, the old bowl system was a joke. I much prefer turning off the TV knowing who the national champion is, rather than waiting on sports writers to cast their votes, and having to read the results in the newspaper on Tuesday. That was nonsense.

 

[peaygolf]

For those of you talking about the FCS style of play. Please keep this in mind. Players in the FCS "generally" have less at stake than the FBS players. Therefore FCS can stand the extra game or 2.

Those kids have just as much to play for. They have NFL dreams and a life after football as well. You seem to make it out that FBS players are more important than those at lesser divisions. That's just not true.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Those kids have just as much to play for. They have NFL dreams and a life after football as well. You seem to make it out that FBS players are more important than those at lesser divisions. That's just not true.

There is a much greater chance AND expectation among the rank and file FBS player than the FCS player. Some make it, but it's a fraction of the FBS players and the kids know it. The FCS is where the student athlete is still alive and well.

 

[peaygolf]

There is a much greater chance AND expectation among the rank and file FBS player than the FCS player. Some make it, but it's a fraction of the FBS players and the kids know it. The FCS is where the student athlete is still alive and well.

I do see your point that more FBS play in the NFL than FCS or lower, but they have the same health risks. They don't play flag football.

I am biased since I went to a FCS school. I will defend them to the end.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

Those kids have just as much to play for. They have NFL dreams and a life after football as well. You seem to make it out that FBS players are more important than those at lesser divisions. That's just not true.

They may have dreams, but if they are good enough to play in the NFL, they very likely would not be playing DII. There were 83 players from DII on NFL rosters in 2018. That's less than 5%.

 

[Tennesseefan2019]

Bring on a 16 team Playoff system

 

[82_VOL_83]

I do see your point that more FBS play in the NFL than FCS or lower, but they have the same health risks. They don't play flag football.

I am biased since I went to a FCS school. I will defend them to the end.

I'm not saying anything other than a much larger number of FBS kids "expect" to go pro than FCS and that the number of games tend to play more negatively in the FBS than FCS (this will be more evident when they start getting paid). I think the FCS plays just as hard as the FBS and if evidenced by our 1st game this year, harder.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Since the playoffs started most of the semi final games have been blowouts. Also, there are usually de facto playoff games at the end of the season. UGA vs LSU was a playoff game. If UGA wins that game they stay alive. Utah had a chance to get in if they had beaten Oregon. That was basically a playoff game. I see no reason whatsoever to expand.

 

[sjt18]

I keep hearing everybody argue between 4 and 8 teams in the playoffs. Personally I believe 4 is fine and any more than that just continues to devalue the regular season. Which is what makes college football great and unique. Which got me thinking..

Why doesn’t CFB just use the NFL 6 team method? Top 2 have byes. 3 plays 6 and 4 plays 5. You could do the power 5 champions and one wild card team or just let the committee pick all 6. Nets 2 extra games and would be a happy middle ground for the debate. Just a random thought, what do you guys think?

Devalues it more than not allowing all 5 champions into the tournament? Devalues it more than taking a team that didn't win its conference instead of a conference champ?

There should be at least the five champions included. I would prefer 8 with one slot reserved for an independent or champion of one of the other 5 FBS conferences.

 

[peaygolf]

They may have dreams, but if they are good enough to play in the NFL, they very likely would not be playing DII. There were 83 players from DII on NFL rosters in 2018. That's less than 5%.

I don't want to get in the weeds here, but then why do HS 's have playoffs..... 14/15 games for the teams in the finals? The vast majority of those kids have zero shot at playing at a higher level.

The argument of "too many games" and "health reasons" for an FBS playoff of 8, 16, 24 teams is absurd. Every other division does it. JMO. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Firebirdparts]

I agree. No need for expansion when we haven’t had a strong 4 seed in years. Once we have multiple deserving teams competing for the fourth spot, then expansion can be discussed. I can’t think of a year when there were 5 or 6 teams with a legitimate argument for #1.

That’s it exactly. We are arguing about who is #6 and it simply does not matter. There is a lot of history saying that you will usually have 1, 2, or 3 undefeated teams for what that is worth.

 

[Atlanta917]

That’s it exactly. We are arguing about who is #6 and it simply does not matter. There is a lot of history saying that you will usually have 1, 2, or 3 undefeated teams for what that is worth.

I mean, UGA is 5 this year and they have no offense and a ton of injuries. They just don’t have an argument for the playoffs, which renders expansion talk irrelevant. I think there should be more concrete qualifiers. Bama got in over Wisconsin and UCF in 2017 off name alone. Clemson has got in without playing a single ranked opponent, while UCF was snubbed in 2017 for SoS. Imo those are bigger issues than letting in more flawed teams that don’t have an argument. lol hopefully more ppl see the light.

 

[BogeyVol]

I think expanding the college football playoff is a bit like the train to Abilene. Don't know if you've heard that story, it's an old one. Bottom line is, everyone in this family was on the train, going to Abilene for the day, because they each thought everyone else wanted to go. In reality, none of them did.

We keep talking about expanding the playoffs because everyone thinks that everyone else is interested in talking about expanding the playoffs.

Now, I'm not saying NO one wants an expanded playoff...but far fewer do than we're generally aware of. And that is among the media, among the coaches and administrations, even among the fan bases.

You hear the ones calling for change (like Mike Leach at Washington State and the occasional ESPN talking head). It's a squeaky wheel thing...they get attention BECAUSE they're making abnormal amounts of noise about it.

I think most folks understand the cost that comes with an additional round of games ... academically and physically, both.

My intuition says, most folks are happy leaving it at four.

Go Vols!

I'm happy with the 4 team playoff - however, I'm not thrilled about the selection process for those four teams. Way too much human subjectivity.

Now, I absolutely hated the BCS most of the time for selecting the top two teams. With that said, I did think it got the top five or six teams right, just not always the order.

I would prefer to see a BCS-like algorithm with computer rankings included for selecting the top 4 (or 6 with a wildcard scenario). The order in a playoff scenario matters to a degree, but at least you have the best options for the right teams being there.

I want to bring in as much objectivity back in to it and reduce as much bias as possible... Solely a group of human selectors ain't that.

 

[VolRoger]

There is no doubt that they will go to 8 teams the next time the opportunity for expansion comes along. It really doesn't matter whether we want it or not. There is too much money to be made by the parties involved - teams, conferences, TV, and advertisers. No worries! We fans will foot the bill one way or another. Those who don't want expansion are simply waxing eloquent for days long dead. With the new money opportunities for players, all the television deals in the past 10 years, etc., college football is headed towards semi pro or minor league professional football. It may take another decade before this happens, but it could certainly be sooner if we have outsiders get involved like what happened in California for these "student athletes". There is way too much money to be made in this sport for the majority of college programs to sit back and watch a select few profit the most from it. Eventually, the NFL will have to get involved to keep the feeder system going just like the NBA is being pinched to end the one and done and bring back players going to the NBA straight from HS. We really shouldn't be complaining though. This all started when the majority of us fans demanded there be a "true" national championship in college football. The only reason we got it was the $$$$$. At least we may get some sort of revenue sharing with a player draft so the have nots can at least compete with the Bama's, Clemson's, OSU's, and Oklahoma's in the game. Recruiting is a farce anyway.

 

[TNnative]

Devalues it more than not allowing all 5 champions into the tournament? Devalues it more than taking a team that didn't win its conference instead of a conference champ?

There should be at least the five champions included. I would prefer 8 with one slot reserved for an independent or champion of one of the other 5 FBS conferences.

Strength of schedule is rightly a stronger argument that will and should be a key part of the process. When the BCS was coming into play, a friend of mine argued to me that Notre Dame should get in, "because they are Notre Dame". Screw them. Those jerks just need to wake up, smell the roses, and join a conference. As does every other independent. Reserving a spot for an independent let's them get an easy pass into the 8 every year. While I wouldn't mind that one spot going to the best champion in the group of five, if there really is one that earns it per strength of schedule, I truly believe strength of schedule should still override placement over conference championships.

 

[Raebo]

I like the concept of a 4 teams playoff but the problem I have is in recruiting. The playoff teams have a big advantage in recruiting because of the exposure. You then end up with basically the same 4 or 5 teams in the playoffs. If you go to 8 teams you can have a playoff game New Years Eve and 3 playoff games New Year’s day. Those could be your Cotton, Rose, Orange, and Sugar bowl games. With 8 teams in the playoff, you will probably get 2 or 3 teams that were not in the playoff the previous year.

Maybe I am imagining it but it seems like there are more bowl games now, all seem to be on TV, and you just have to have a mediocre record to be in a bowl game.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I don't want to get in the weeds here, but then why do HS 's have playoffs..... 14/15 games for the teams in the finals? The vast majority of those kids have zero shot at playing at a higher level.

The argument of "too many games" and "health reasons" for an FBS playoff of 8, 16, 24 teams is absurd. Every other division does it. JMO. We can agree to disagree.

You just made my point.