Official Global Warming thread (merged)

Would you necessarily have lower relative humidity? I can see how regions that don't have good mechanisms for humidification of air would see a drop in relative humidity, but it seems to me that areas with good transport mechanisms would see similar relative humidity - but with more water vapor now in the air at the same relative humidity due to the higher temperature. Is their a good argument to be made for a global average lower relative humidity?
 
If you have similar levels in places with access to moisture, and lower levels in places that do not, does that not translate to a lower average?
 
If you have similar levels in places with access to moisture, and lower levels in places that do not, does that not translate to a lower average?

Ha ha ha. I suppose it would. Of course, that is a hypothetical situation I posed - but the answer was sitting in my question.


I like the main point you make, though. And, that is that more water in the atmosphere doesn't necessarily mean that it wants to leave the atmosphere....that relative humidity is the key metric.
 
There's a logic to it, but man's strongest attribute has been to both adapt to his environment, and adapt his environment to him. In that way, it's completely natural for us to put the breaks on disrupting what we have going currently, as it would be far more destructive and expensive to have to adjust to large scale climate change. Even gsvol unwittingly bumps into this sort of theme, when he talks about how we would "benefit" from global warming and advocating for the continuance of business as usual to stave off an ice age (yet maintains that it isn't possible that humans are capable of warming the planet. He's gsvol so he can get away with that sort of hedging of his bets logically).

Nothing unwitting about that stance at all.

There is however glaring illogic about your stance.




Not just academic dishonesty. It would have to be the largest scale conspiracy in the history of mankind, perpetrated by mostly the brightest and highest educated on the relevant subject matter, but sniffed out by the Joe six-packs with GED's and associate's degrees of America. Truly amazing. It'd make a great made-for-tv movie starring Billy Ray Cyrus or Alan Jackson.



The leaked e-mails proved beyond any shadow of doubt that the top promoters of alarmist AGW dogma were conspiring to manipulate and even falisfy data to fit their credo, at least beyond a shadow of doubt to any rational human being.

conspiracytheorysheep3.jpg


Even Gore and his crooked pals knew when they had had enough and the jig was up when they shut down the Chicago carbon trading exchange.




28. When I first read your posts, I began to drool and realized I dumber for having read them.

WRONG BUCKO!!

It's AGW that's causing your drool, just ask TT and IP.

synergy.gif
 
GS - would you like to explain to us why Al-Qaeda in Indonesia is laughable?

I'm not laughing, on the contrary, I'm quaking in my boots just thainkg about AGW causing al-qaeda in Indonesia, not only that every time they blow up a night club in Bali that's going to cause more AGW.

I'll never be able to get to sleep tonight just thinking about all that.





Just setting the record straight, KB....as if it really mattered.

The only record you have straight is your broken AGW record.





Please show me where I have suggested that corn ethanol mandates were a reasonable approach to solving the problem.

Also, this post was clearly focused on potential ramifications of inaction assuming that the predictions play out. There was no need to proceed through a scientific assessment once that assumption was made. I've made my scientific points elsewhere.

Also, recalling your difficulty with reading comprehension - you will note that I said your posts often lack a scientific quality. You also occasionally copy and paste something that is based upon elements of science - that is why I said often, not always. I'm sorry that this bit of truth has obviously caused you a great deal of consternation...since you have brought it up .... again. The key difference between posts like mine above and many of yours is that the post you quoted was not intended to make a case for (or against) AGW - thus it contained little science. On the other hand, you consistently try to make a case that AGW is bunk using silly cartoons, charges of conspiracy, and broad generalizations with the occasional scientific point thrown in, but often incorrectly or out of context. I will give you credit, though, I am sure you have occasionally copied and pasted a valid scientific criticism here and there. Good job.

Must you take everything personally.

Perhaps you can outline a course of action that will see the idiotic ethanol mandates rescinded??

You assume way too much.

I'm still looking for your scientific data that refutes Lindzen.
 
If the earth heated up, wouldnt we see more moisture in the air? Possibly making some areas new "Bread Baskets" since growing would seasons be longer

Forget the water vapor, just think of all the billions of people breathing out CO2 every minute and if anyone mentions cow farts I'm going to have a complete panic attack.
 
Forget the water vapor, just think of all the billions of people breathing out CO2 every minute and if anyone mentions cow farts I'm going to have a complete panic attack.

The Cow represents the bloated government funded scientific community. The farts represent the vile global warming propaganda they spew to enact socialist policies.
 
You keep repeating the same lies about the hacked emails, but the truth is they were fully investigated and found to not be in any way subversive. There are full explanations available for all of the emails that were held up as "proof" of an elaborate plot.
 
Forget the water vapor, just think of all the billions of people breathing out CO2 every minute and if anyone mentions cow farts I'm going to have a complete panic attack.

Ironically, the largest net warmer of the atmosphere is water vapor. So really, one should be concerned at the potential for that positive feedback in warming of the atmosphere.

Carry on with your fart jokes, though.
 
Must you take everything personally.

:eek:lol:

Seriously? This coming from the guy who has gone on for days about me saying his posts lack a certain scientific quality? Or, coming from the guy that has on more than one occasion gone off the wall at other posters who happened to cross you the wrong way?

I happen to take the issue of AGW seriously, but it is hard for me to take the things you post seriously or personally. It isn't that I take your posts personally (or consider you a serious person with rational points), it is that I feel I have a personal obligation to clean up your mess at times or else others might actually believe it.

But, don't let me be too one-sided here. There are occasions where you do copy and paste something that has elements of truth...even if they are often taken out of context by you or the original author.
 
The Cow represents the bloated government funded scientific community. The farts represent the vile global warming propaganda they spew to enact socialist policies.

And you represent public education in America,
GONE HORRIBLY WRONG!

However, like the proverbial blind squirrel, you
do stumble upon an acorn every so often.

In this case your counter-intuitive indoctrinated,
condidtioned thought process has delivered you
somewhere in close proximity to the truth.

vqktop.jpg
 
You keep repeating the same lies about the hacked emails, but the truth is they were fully investigated and found to not be in any way subversive. There are full explanations available for all of the emails that were held up as "proof" of an elaborate plot.

What lies??

The emails revealed massive fraud.

The emails revealed attempts to discredit scientists
who don't subscribe to AGW theory.

Sample: (and there is plenty plenty more where this
came from so you shouldn't continue to embarrass
yourself by claiming the facts to be lies.)


DailyTech - Climategate: Stunning Deception and Misconduct at UK Warming Research Center Revealed

Writes Phil Jones:

I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding
in the real temps to each series for the last 20
years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for
Keith’s to hide the decline. Mike’s series got
the annual land and marine values while the other
two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter
two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999
for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global
estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C
cf. 0.57 for 1998.

The email reads like a flat out confession of academic
misconduct and deception.
Obviously hiding data and
doctoring values is the kind of thing that gets you
expelled from graduate school, but here these seasoned
researchers seemed to have engaged in such practices
and gleefully got published.

The emails also contain passages concerning the
center's attempts to hide the Medieval Warm Period
(MWP). Writes a colleague of Mr. Jones:

……Phil and I have recently submitted a paper using
about a dozen NH records that fit this category, and
many of which are available nearly 2K back–I think that
trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K, rather than the usual
1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/
regard to the memo, that it would be nice to try
to “contain” the putative “MWP”, even if we don’t yet
have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that
far back….

Still other emails reveal that the Phil Jones and others
at the center engaged in campaigns of trying to silence
skeptics, removing them from the journal peer-review
process. Not all of the researchers at the center seemed
to be onboard with the deceit, though. Some expressed
doubts about the theory of anthropogenic (manmade)
global warming and refused to support some of the
center's actions, putting their own careers in jeopardy.

If lame stream media in the US wasn't so invested
in promoting AGW theory this would have been a
scandal of massive proportions.

More:

Global Epidemic of CRU-like Criminal Climate Conspiracy Strikes NZ Global Warming: A Worn-Out Hoax

There have been strident claims that New Zealand
is warming. The Inter-governmental Panel on Climate
Change (IPCC), among other organisations and
scientists, allege that, along with the rest of the
world, we have been heating up for over 100 years.

But now, a simple check of publicly-available information
proves these claims wrong. In fact, New Zealand’s
temperature has been remarkably stable for a century
and a half.
So what’s going on?

New Zealand’s National Institute of Water & Atmospheric
Research (NIWA) is responsible for New Zealand’s
National Climate Database. This database, available
online, holds all New Zealand’s climate data, including
temperature readings, since the 1850s. Anybody can
go and get the data for free. That’s what we did, and
we made our own graph.
------------------------------

Straight away you can see there’s no slope—either up
or down. The temperatures are remarkably constant
way back to the 1850s
. Of course, the temperature
still varies from year to year, but the trend stays level—
statistically insignificant at 0.06°C per century since
1850.

Putting these two graphs side by side, you can see
huge differences. What is going on?

Why does NIWA’s graph show strong warming, but
graphing their own raw data looks completely different?
Their graph shows warming, but the actual temperature
readings show none whatsoever!

Have the readings in the official NIWA graph been
adjusted?

It is relatively easy to find out. We compared raw
data for each station (from NIWA’s web site) with
the adjusted official data, which we obtained from
one of Dr Salinger’s colleagues.

Requests for this information from Dr Salinger himself
over the years, by different scientists, have long gone
unanswered, but now we might discover the truth.

Proof of man-made warming

What did we find? First, the station histories are
unremarkable. There are no reasons for any large
corrections. But we were astonished to find that
strong adjustments have indeed been made.


About half the adjustments actually created a warming
trend where none existed; the other half greatly
exaggerated existing warming.
All the adjustments
increased or even created a warming trend, with only
one (Dunedin) going the other way and slightly reducing
the original trend.

The shocking truth is that the oldest readings have
been cranked way down and later readings artificially
lifted to give a false impression of warming, as
documented below. There is nothing in the station
histories to warrant these adjustments and to date Dr
Salinger and NIWA have not revealed why they did this.





Ironically, the largest net warmer of the atmosphere is water vapor. So really, one should be concerned at the potential for that positive feedback in warming of the atmosphere.

Carry on with your fart jokes, though.

If you are frightened of what might happen if the
Earth should warm a few degrees then perhaps
your post has merit, otherwise not.

Continue with your droll dour crappola though.

Meanwhile leading global warming alarmist Hansen
of NASA is being sued for failing to answer FOIA
requests.

NASA GISS being sued over FOIA failures | Watts Up With That?

Despite NASA stonewalling CEI has already learned, for example, that NASA does not, contrary to widespread media and pressure group claims, have an independent temperature data set. Instead, as NASA told USA Today in an email, despite its serial, breathless press releases trumpeting some new temperature high, it actually is just a modeling office, which also (for unknown reasons, possibly extra attention and importance, or mere advocacy) cobbles together some US data from the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) with that of the Climatic Research Unit’s temperature history. You may recall how CRU withdrew its claim to a temperature history data set after ClimateGate led to an admission it actually lost its data.

And the Congressional select committee on energy
indepenence and global warming has been terminated.


BTW, cow farts are no joke, the brain addled morons
that run the EPA wanted to tax cow farts to the tune
of around $80 per head per year!!!






:eek:lol:

Seriously?

:lolabove:

When are you going to scientifically refute Lindzen's
statement that computer models overstate the value
of CO2 by six times the amount???

The point was that those, such as yourself, who
support the whole AGW theory have enabled idiotic
policies such as the ethanol mandates to be put in
place with no relief in sight and it can only get worse
as people, such as youself continue to support this
fraud.

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Jokes? You sir, are simply not sophisticated enough to understand the deep metaphorical language this man(genius?) can create through Microsoft Paint.

Congratulations, once again you have stumbled upon the truth, in that over 80% of the humor I direct toward IP flies over his head like a frisbee thrown into a strong head wind.

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."
Winston Churchill
 
Who is making billions?

Anyone who watches WWII footage knows the snowfalls of this winter in Europe are nothing. The media and the personal anecdotes at the airlines give a false impression.

But I ask again, who is making billions from the "global warming myth?"

al20gore20photoshops20polar20bear.jpg





To be honest, sea levels probably wouldn't have to rise that much to displace hundreds of millions from places like Indonesia and Bangladesh (also, some areas of China) where you have ridiculous population densities in flat, low-lying, coastal areas. I assume that is where the number comes from. 500 M people might correspond to 3 or 4 feet of sea level rise, not the 30 feet of bad History channel movies.

This is just conjecture though...I don't know these numbers. The 500 M number could correspond to much higher levels...care to comment gibbs? I'm just throwing it out there...

Also, I'm sure the believability of 3 or 4 feet can be argued as well.

So what?? Are you saying people who wear Earth shoes can't walk uphill?





Well said. In addition, oil and natural gas reserves are carbon sinks that have been storing carbon for hundreds of thousands to millions of years, and we're putting it back into the the carbon cycle at the flip of a switch. There's nothing in the natural system to compare that to.

So you are saying human activity is unnatural or do you just mean the homos??



There's a natural cycle. Upright apes pumping hydrocarbons out of the Earth and combusting them into the atmosphere isn't part of it.

C3: New Year Brings Devestating News To AGW Alarmists: New Research Shows Little CO2 & Warming Correlation

A new peer-reviewed study finds little, if any, causal relationship between increased fossil fuel CO2 emissions and global warming. This lack of empirical evidence is of no real surprise to skeptics, and probably is the best explanation as to why climate agencies across the world have been forced to fabricate fake global warming.
This study also indicates why the IPCC's global climate models consistently fail: the models assume human CO2 causes global warming, which this study finds to be false.
 
Somewhere Tennessee Tradition just got a high pitched ringing noise in his head for no apparent reason.
 

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