New Rivals 150

[ranradVOL]

Soooo now according to everyone here this class is average, but when they were higher ranked Martin was getting it done ... Unbelievable fan base we have.

I don't think anyone is really saying that, as much as they are saying the ranking system is frustrating.

I love the class we're bringing in regardless.

 

[ranradVOL]

No. I don't realize that because that didn't happen.

Lickliter took them to 2 NCAA tournaments in his 6 years there. First, in March 2003 and then 4 years later in 2007. It is true that he made the sweet 16 both times though.

So Lickliter did a good job. He won the Horizon League twice in his six years which got him a NCAA bid where he was able to make an impact. Stevens though, took it to the next step. He won the conference 4 years straight and made it to the finals twice.

The fact remains a team full if low ranked guys were taken deep into the tourney with 2 different coaches.

My mistake was getting the sweet sixteen years mixed up.

The point remains. No?

 

[SJAVol32]

I don't think anyone is really saying that, as much as they are saying the ranking system is frustrating.

I love the class we're bringing in regardless.

But we aren't top 20 so Cuonzo isn't getting it done. I love recruiting ranks as much as the next person unless its a 2 stars with little offers that's when I worry. Every player committed is a position of need and for the most part has had great reviews from scouts. I'm not going to take these rankings and determine that these players are no longer good now.

 

[iKrager]

We are not rebuilding....we have a top 25 team on campus right now. Either you can recruit or you can't....Zo is doing a decent job but still has a lot of room to improve in that area. None of us knows how any of these guys will actually perform on the court....all we have to go by is how we rank against the rest of nation and our conference.

Last yr we were not a top 25 class and it looks like we might not be a top 25 class again. That is not getting it done in recruiting. So far out of his recruits only J Richardson has surpassed his lower ranking, although A Moore does show some potential.

How are we not a rebuilding program? Bruce Pearl and his staff left a program that was consistently ranked and making tournaments (which helped pull high caliber recruits). Martin's teams haven't been nationally ranked and he's unable to pull the talent Pearl could. Until we continually make the tournament or sneak into the top 25, I'd say we're still rebuilding. Martin has been in the running with top caliber talent, but I fear the lack of national exposure/NCAA appearances have pushed a lot of the talent back.

 

[ranradVOL]

But we aren't top 20 so Cuonzo isn't getting it done. I love recruiting ranks as much as the next person unless its a 2 stars with little offers that's when I worry. Every player committed is a position of need and for the most part has had great reviews from scouts. I'm not going to take these rankings and determine that these players are no longer good now.

Exactly. Agree 100%.

 

[whobethis16]

The fact remains a team full if low ranked guys were taken deep into the tourney with 2 different coaches.

My only mistake was getting the sweet sixteen years mixed up.

The point remains. No?

Not as big of one, since going to the Sweet 16 twice in 3 years is so much better than twice in 5.

 

[BigZiti09]

The fact remains a team full if low ranked guys were taken deep into the tourney with 2 different coaches.

My only mistake was getting the sweet sixteen years mixed up.

The point remains. No?

There's a big difference in what Lickliter did there and what Stevens did.

Lickliter won that little conference a couple times and then made two mini runs in the tourney. Pretty impressive. Stevens was remarkable though. He's on a different level.

I am impressed with Butler's ability to hire good coaches. Before Lickliter, they had Thad Matta.

I don't think Martin is the next Brad Stevens so I don't want him to recruit like he's at Mizz St.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Tend to agree. "Compete for top 5 in SEC" is way too low. This program should be consistently in the top 3 in this league. The hoops program was neglected by Dickey and fans don't realize how great this program can be.

I would love for those to be the expectations, we have the resources for it, but it starts with the AD IMO. Bama bossed up and paid Grant, SC did the same with Martin, we seem to always go the cheap route.

You can't buy a Kia and expect it to perform like a BMW.

 

[Stoked]

So just because Rivals says that they are 3 stars means that they suck? Because ESPN says they are 4 stars and our class is ranked 4th. That's why rankings are simply opinions and nothing else...

 

[ranradVOL]

Not as big of one, since going to the Sweet 16 twice in 3 years is so much better than twice in 5.

The point I was trying to covey with Calban, is that with the right staff and players, a team can be very successful with lower ranked guys. There are equalizers.

However, I agree that it is the exception and much more difficult.

 

[GoobieVol]

Soooo now according to everyone here this class is average, but when they were higher ranked Martin was getting it done ... Unbelievable fan base we have.

Don't you group me with the Legion. lol

 

[ranradVOL]

There's a big difference in what Lickliter did there and what Stevens did.

Lickliter won that little conference a couple times and then made two mini runs in the tourney. Pretty impressive. Stevens was remarkable though. He's on a different level.

I am impressed with Butler's ability to hire good coaches. Before Lickliter, they had Thad Matta.

I don't think Martin is the next Brad Stevens so I don't want him to recruit like he's at Mizz St.

I think you're missing the point haha.

They both had low ranked guys. Both had success. Period.

I'm not arguing that Licklighter had a better stay at Butler than Stevens.

 

[BigZiti09]

I would love for those to be the expectations, we have the resources for it, but it starts with the AD IMO. Bama bossed up and paid Grant, SC did the same with Martin, we seem to always go the cheap route.

You can't buy a Kia and expect it to perform like a BMW.

We were limited in who we could hire at the time due to NCAA investigation, bad roster and the fact you'd be following a guy who was tremendously successful and beloved at UT. The hire was made by Hamilton, not our current AD. Doesn't change my expectations for Martin and the hoops program. I think Martin has proven he's not a bum coach by winning some big games but now it's time to prove his worth over the course of a full season.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Not sure what you are comparing. At this stage CCM hasn't made the dance, period.

It was all hypothetical, you seemingly missed that part.

 

[BigZiti09]

I think you're missing the point haha.

They both had low ranked guys. Both had success. Period.

I'm not arguing that Licklighter had a better stay at Butler than Stevens.

Right. I guess the point I'm making is that Martin isn't Brad Stevens so we better recruit well.

I think Martin is a good coach, but I don't think he's a guy who can go out there with a bunch of Horizon League guys and make sweet 16 runs on a consistent basis.

 

[SJAVol32]

Don't you group me with the Legion. lol

Lol not everyone but you know. I just don't get it. Martin can do nothing right according to some people.

 

[SJAVol32]

Exactly. Agree 100%.

Just makes no sense to me.

 

[ranradVOL]

Right. I guess the point I'm making is that Martin isn't Brad Stevens so we better recruit well.

I think Martin is a good coach, but I don't think he's a guy who can go out there with a bunch of Horizon League guys and make sweet 16 runs on a consistent basis.

I gotcha. I agree with that as well.

 

[GoobieVol]

I think you're missing the point haha.

They both had low ranked guys. Both had success. Period.

I'm not arguing that Licklighter had a better stay at Butler than Stevens.

I will say this though. The difference IMO of comparing us filling a roster(consistantly) of 3*'s and Butler is the overall grind of UT's schedule vs Butler. Butler's weaker schedule allows a kid to go through some of the freshman and sophmore growing pains, that would be a lot more visible and maybe lingering in the sec.

 

[BigZiti09]

I will say this though. The difference IMO of comparing us filling a roster(consistantly) of 3*'s and Butler is the overall grind of UT's schedule vs Butler. Butler's weaker schedule allows a kid to go through some of the freshman and sophmore growing pains, that would be a lot more visible and maybe lingering in the sec.

Good point. Lickliter won the Horizon league twice to get into the tourney. Do those Butler teams make it to the tourney if they play in SEC? Can't make a sweet 16 run if you're not in the tourney.

I've always said you keep going to the tourney and you'll eventually make your runs.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

We were limited in who we could hire at the time due to NCAA investigation, bad roster and the fact you'd be following a guy who was tremendously successful and beloved at UT. The hire was made by Hamilton, not our current AD. Doesn't change my expectations for Martin and the hoops program. I think Martin has proven he's not a bum coach by winning some big games but now it's time to prove his worth over the course of a full season.

I used to think this, but not anymore. Ohio State was in a bad spot, arguably worse spot than we were, and football is harder to turn around than basketball. They ponied up the money and got one of the best coaches in the country.

 

[BigZiti09]

I used to think this, but not anymore. Ohio State was in a bad spot, arguably worse spot than we were, and football is harder to turn around than basketball. They ponied up the money and got one of the best coaches in the country.

But the timing of their situation made everything different. Because Tressel got fired after signing day, they were able to name an interim coach without losing recruits and then they hired Meyer during the season, again without hurting recruiting. Meyer knew he was coming into a situation where he'd have a stacked roster and would get paid the big bucks regardless.

In UT's situation, we had a depleted roster with 6 scholarship players and a former walk on. You would be coming in to replace a guy who was tremendously successful and won more than anyone had win in decades at the school. You also still had the NCAA sniffing around.

Could UT have hired a more proven coach? Maybe. But the timing of it made it very difficult. The timing of it all is what was killer. We got caught flat footed, same as we did with Dooley. I think we made a much better hire in Martin than DD but that's not saying much.

I haven't lost faith that Martin can be successful long term here. I think this class will pay long term dividends. This is a very solid class.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Just a difference of opinion I guess. I've leaned that money can get you lots of things in college sports, if we had decided to pony up $4 million for a coach and make a statement we could have. Indiana was in MESS that dwarfed our situation, but made a great hire in Crean.

 

[germanicus]

Actually, I'm as concerned with CCM's system as the recruiting. He's playing a dated, Keady influenced style. Recruit a big dog and surround him with role players.
Take no risks on defense. Where he differs is on offense and not in a good way. It looks to me like the motion offense puts a premium on shooters, while CCM is loading up on non-shooters.

I hope he is evolving as a coach, because his system isn't very impressive yet.

But the timing of their situation made everything different. Because Tressel got fired after signing day, they were able to name an interim coach without losing recruits and then they hired Meyer during the season, again without hurting recruiting. Meyer knew he was coming into a situation where he'd have a stacked roster and would get paid the big bucks regardless.

In UT's situation, we had a depleted roster with 6 scholarship players and a former walk on. You would be coming in to replace a guy who was tremendously successful and won more than anyone had win in decades at the school. You also still had the NCAA sniffing around.

Could UT have hired a more proven coach? Maybe. But the timing of it made it very difficult. The timing of it all is what was killer. We got caught flat footed, same as we did with Dooley. I think we made a much better hire in Martin than DD but that's not saying much.

I haven't lost faith that Martin can be successful long term here. I think this class will pay long term dividends. This is a very solid class.

 

[germanicus]

Just a difference of opinion I guess. I've leaned that money can get you lots of things in college sports, if we had decided to pony up $4 million for a coach and make a statement we could have. Indiana was in MESS that dwarfed our situation, but made a great hire in Crean.

Spot on.