Nelson Mandela: Good Man or Terrorist?

#55
#55
dresden, tokyo, troy, carthage, hiroshima, nagasaki, small pox blankets, shermans march, the occupation of new orleans, jericho... I could keep going.



An overarching act of treason using tactics of terrorism, guerrilla warfare, standard warfare and propaganda.


Well if you look at it from our side of the conflict, Hiroshima and Nagasaki prevented all of our POWs on the island of Japan from being executed when we invaded.

I think maybe you confuse treason and terroism!


According to wikipedia he is a methodist and he grew up attending methodist schools and then a methodist college.

You know what I think of wiki, anyone in the world can write their sh!t.

There have been many who have been raised in a Christian environment to go on to commit horrendous crimes.

The thing about it is this, did Mndela commit his crimes in the name of his Methodist teachings or in the name of
godless marxism.

I think we all know the answer to that.
 
#56
#56
Well if you look at it from our side of the conflict, Hiroshima and Nagasaki prevented all of our POWs on the island of Japan from being executed when we invaded.

I think maybe you confuse treason and terroism!




You know what I think of wiki, anyone in the world can write their sh!t.

There have been many who have been raised in a Christian environment to go on to commit horrendous crimes.

The thing about it is this, did Mndela commit his crimes in the name of his Methodist teachings or in the name of
godless marxism.

I think we all know the answer to that.

The reasons we nuked them were not the point. I was just pointing out that historically, civilians have always been a target... even of the 'good guys'.

I don't confuse anything. The colonists were British subjects. The revolution was treason. That is not a debatable point. They also used tactics in many cases that would be called terrorism today. That is not a debatable point.

Wikipedia is about as accurate for easily obtainable information as any site on the web. And far more accurate than most of the tripe you link to.

Communism is not inherently atheistic. Just because many communist groups are, does not mean it is inherent. As a matter of fact, there is a lot of evidence that the early church in Jerusalem operated as a commune.
 
#58
#58
gs just doesn't like the color red.

For the sake of the discussion, let's say the communist takeover of South Africa was a good thing because it ended evil apartheid and that terrorist tactics were justified because the ends justifies the means, ergo Mandela was a good man.

Now the question, why the ongoing terror campaign in South Africa?? Should it not ended when Mandela was elected president??
 
#59
#59
Are you making a joke or does he really have issues there?

I have n issue of the ongoing wave of terrorist attacks on the whites (and Asians,) especially the Boers in South Africa and the silence of the media here in America.

Just one of vary many unheard, unviewed sources on that topic:

Boer Genocide

Juan van Eeden was executed with a single-shot through his neck:

Mr Juan van Eeden 's murder also was horrific, the court heard. Mr Van Eeden tried to lock himself in the main-bedroom of his home on 10 October 2009 while Nkuna broke in at 2am. Nkuna broke down the bedroom door and 'coldbloodedly shot dead Van Eeden with a neckshot', the court heard.

Finger-print on their .45 pistol was linked to cartridge at Van Eeden’s murder scene:

On 22 Oct 2009 the two terrorists had also attacked Mr Johan Potgieter in Noordheuwel after poisoning his staffordshire-terriër. However this was a crucial turning point for the police in tracing the two men: Potgieter was able to push an emergency service's button while the two armed black males stormed into his bedroom. In their haste to flee before the armed response unit would arrive, they lost a .45 pistol - with Simbine's finger-print on it. And this .45 pistol provided the positive proof, the vital link that the cartridge which was used to murder Mr Van Eeden, was directly linked to Simbine.

On 23 October the gang attacked Mrs Johanna Paulina Erasmus at her home in Noordheuwel.

They tried to strangle her, then beat her unconscious with a spanner and fled with a Mercedes Benz 230 which was traced by her tracking company and the West Rand Reaction Unit - and both men were arrested.

Skuldig:

The terror campaign against the Afrikaners of Krugersdorp continues unabated: even Freedom Front Plus MEC Jaco Mulder feels unsafe inside his own Noordheuwel home…

However while these two men have been arrested and tried, the campaign of terror against the Afrikaners around Krugersdorp continues unabated. On Nov 1 2011, Krugersdorp Noordheuwel families suffered a wave of senseless knifing attacks: with one girl surviving with horrid mutilations carved into her body by two black men in a frenzied attack. The 22-year-old girl lives right across the home of the Gauteng premier Mrs Nombula Mokonyane...

-- The girl was attacked at 11am on Nov 1 2011 in her home in Noordheuwel Krugersdorp. She was deliberately mutilated by the two black males with knives who stabbed her repeatedly in the frenzied attack She fought back courageously and managed to send an SOS to her mother - which caused her attackers to flee. Nothing was robbed.

This incident was only one of a series of senseless knifing attacks targetting Afrikaners throughout this region. The victim's identity is not released for security reasons, the police said.
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Crime Feb 2012 Zuma’s use of soldiers slammed
summary: Although Mugabe ‘s blood-diamond-wealth destabilises South Africa, the Kimberley Process’ new chair won’t monitor polished blood-diamond trade; As many as 75 black-racist attacks last month against mostly Afrikaner targets; photographer Snowy Smith survives hammer-attack; Alan Hepburn stabbed to death; Zuma slammed for using soldiers in policing civilians;

Farmitracker.com postings - summary first week of February 2012

Environment campaigner photographer Snowy Smith fights back against black male attacker: entire Westville Durban apartment building attacked by armed gang 5 Feb 2012 Residents in entire two-storey apartment building held at gunpoint and attacked: Durban Westville photographer Snowy Smith on the second floor was attacked with a hammer - fights back: survives with leg-injury, he writes.
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Zuma slammed for Unconstitutional use of SA soldiers to police civilians in SA streets

5 Feb 2012 ‘There was no state of emergency announced by the SA president to use the SANDF – which is a Constitutional requirement before soldiers can start patrolling civilian areas. Two video clips show the brutality with which these xenophobic soldiers and police-officers attacked the shops of unarmed foreign traders, fired tear-gas and stun-grenades. And Johannesburg journalist Yusuf Omar reported that a human rights worker was arrested for photographing a South African soldier beating up a foreign shopkeeper with the butt of his R4 rifle. Video one by Adrian de Kock: Jan 12 2012 - The crowds in downtown Johannesburg's Jeppe Street scatter after police threw a stun grenade into the unarmed group of people. The SA Police Service and the SA National Defence Force were 'raiding' the shops of unarmed foreign traders in the area, for reasons unknown: accompanied by the military, the local metro-cops and the fire brigade.
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blogspot.com/2012/01/zuma-sang-kill-boer-in-bloemfontein.html

Boere Krisis Aksie site reports 74 black-racist attacks in January 2012 (not 55)
- including 25 murders, 29 attempted murders: as follows:

Feb 5 2012 - Hannes Engelbrecht writes: BOERE KRISISAKSIE’s e-mail of this week focuses on a tremendous increase in incidents and murders aimed at Afrikaner/Boers in South Africa for the period of January 21 till February 1, 2012. It is our firm conviction that this escalation in genocide crimes against whites was brought about by the unruly ANC centenary celebrations at the start of January. This brings our total number of racist incidents against whites for January 2012 to 74 racial incidents aimed at whites,including 25 murders and 29 attempted murders/serious assaults. -

VREDENDAL: Couple of 75 and 81 attacked by armed blackattackers on their farm.

BRENTHURST: Armed blackattackers in police uniform attack family in Tweedy Street, but alertneighbour foils their plans.

BEDFORDVIEW: Alert neighbour thwarts armed attack by blackson elderly woman in Main Street.

WINKELSPRUIT: Black attacker’s firearm misfires as he tries to shoot young girl during hi-jacking.

CENTURION: Smartryk Treurnich(37) knifed to death by black attacker.

BRYANSTON: Paul Swanson murdered by black attackers.

STELLA: Elderly farmer Boet Cilliers tied to tree, brutally assaulted and shot execution-stylein the forehead by blackattackers.

RIVONIA: Gavin Osmond attackedby black who threw acid in hisface, damaging his eyes.

NELSPRUIT: Woman raped and shocked with electricity by black attackers.

POLOKWANE: Two armed men with police and army uniforms arrested as alleged ANC political hit squad members and paradedbefore angry residents.

KNYSNA: Vehicle found withmilitary uniforms and weapons inmain street. -Elderly farmer Corrie Potgieter (70) shoots armed black attacker.

POTCHEFSTROOM: Engineeringstudent stabbed in lungs withknife by armed attackers.

FOURWAYS: Alert domesticworker throws boiling water overblack attacker.

SELCOURT, SPRINGS: Woman andher baby locked up in cupboardby attackers, who flee when neighbours arrive.

WINTERTON: Man who shot at three robbers who forced him off the road to rob him of R20 000 just drawn at bank, finds at police station that they had lain a charge of attempted murder against him.

PRETORIA: Johan Geyer shot inthe back in Hazelwood Avenue bythree armed blacks.

EDENGLEN: Young girl escapesdeath as armed attacker’s firearm misfires. Security firm arrest attackers.

NABOOMSPRUIT: Anita vanNiekerk (62) attacked and her throat slit by five black attackers.Her grandchild undergoing counselling.

ROOSSENEKAL: Frans du Toit (38)shot dead in cold blood on hisgame farm.

BLOEMFONTEIN: Alje vanDeemter (70) and Annemarie (70)brutally attacked by hammer-wielding black attacker.

BRITS: Elderly shopkeeper ofRashoop shop shot dead in coldblood.

PRETORIA: Johannes Slabbert shot dead in cold blood by black attacker.
His brother was shot two years ago in Lichtenburg.

NELSPRUIT: Stenger shot deadwhile being used as human shield by 4 armed black attackers during shoot-out with Lomar.

POLOKWANE: Dr Tim Scholtz(65) wounded during armed attack by blacks in Rabie Street.

BRITS: Holidaymaker Frans vander Linde of Lichtenburg shotdead; wife assaulted.

NELSPRUIT: Man shot in the stomach by black attacker at TheRest. source: HANNES ENGELBRECHT BOERE KRISISAKSIE (BKA)
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Destitute, homeless women gang-raped, husband brutally beaten trying to flee from Lesotho rapists with his wife, Welkom

Posted: 01 Feb 2012 destitute women gang-raped, husband brutally beaten for trying to flee with his wife - Welkom. The destitute Afrikaner mining families in the delapidated gold-mine town of Welkom are increasingly under threat from roaming gangs of Lesotho 'gold-dust hunters' and crime-gangs: 2012-02-03

And on and on and on.
 
#60
#60
Boer Genocide: South African police are criminal scum – Mike Smith warns

SA Institute for Race Relations warned that the SA police are increasingly criminal and going feral

9 Dec 2011 – Mike Smith writes: “In the news is again two gangs of cops who gang-raped two white sisters who had just left a party in Sandton and were followed home after they went through an official police road-block. Cops raping men and women who were captured in traffic-road blocks is nothing new. It is a regular occurrence in South Africa. “

Map and graph: 23,39% of the 1,980 serious crimes logged against minorities between Jan 2010 and Nov 2011 were conducted by feral cops:
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Censorbugbear-Reports has surveyed the results from the private criminology-website Farmitracker.com, launched from Jan 2010 to record specific crimes targetting minority-groups in SA throughout the FIFA international football tournaments.

The site (above illustration) has logged some 1,980 serious crimes against minorities since Jan 2010 – and more than 355 (23,39%) crimes had been caused by SA police officers who had specifically targetted minority-group members for very serious crimes including kidnapping, rape, abuse of power, armed robberies, murders... While some of these crimes took place at border-regions and involved kidnapping and killing of mainly Asian residents by a horrifically cruel gang which was protected by the SAPS in Komatipoort, the majority of these logged crimes took place in Gauteng province – where the average racial-representation in the SAPS showed a dramatic drop from 12% white police officers in 2007 to only 1% by 2011. In several of these logged cases, white police officers also were arrested on trumped-up charges, released from duty – and then not reinstated in their jobs although they had been found not guilty of the charges – and the civil rights movement Afriforum had to sue the government to try and get these Afrikaner officers reinstated.
--------------------------------

In one year - 2008-2009 - a total of 2,134 cases were officially lodged against the police. Of that only 38 convictions followed. That is a conviction rate of 1,78% . And those 2,134 official cases are just the tip of the iceberg: the majority of SA residents are too terrified to lodge charges against the police. This became clear by Stats-SA’s publication of its latest household survey on November 24 2011 http://www.statssa.gov.za/publications/PO341/PO3412o11.pdf
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This showed that householders of all races were terrified of the police: so terrified that in areas mostly occupied by white, coloured and Asian/Indian residents, the householders preferred contacting their local crime-prevention units and private security companies first -- before filing formal charges with the SAPS later; while in black areas, the householders didn’t even bother going to the cops: they instead ‘had their crime-problems sorted out’ by vigilante group such as taxi-associations or trusted traditional healers.

And on and on and on and on.

Hard for me to see how Mandela deserves any sort of recognition for accomplishing anything good at all.

Boer Genocide: Police-jail rapes of white SA men is a war crime pattern

Police-jail rapes of white SA men is a war crime pattern

It’s a pattern: often white South African men are arrested on frivolous charges, dumped in holding cells with black criminals and raped – and then released without charges the next day…
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The writer of the following article, known only as Sybille*, says these race-targetted rapes are ‘war-crimes’ – ‘acts of aggression to humiliate and degrade members of the white conquered tribe’.

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Sybille writes: “Gang rapes of white victims in holding cells in South Africa take place on a regular basis and are only reported when some of the victims sue the police and government. These gang rapes by black inmates in holding cells committed on solitary white victims, are in fact war crimes, acts of aggression in a sexual manner, under conditions of coercion intended to humiliate and degrade the victim, and has nothing to do with sexual gratification.
These white men (and at times also white women) are usually arrested on spurious charges. Die nuwe Suid-Afrika

Some are arrested for ‘speeding’, even though many deny they were in fact speeding. Some are arrested for ‘outstanding fines’.Most of the time, the ‘charges’ are dropped after they have been brutalised and gang-raped in police cells…

Some are arrested for ‘being witnesses to other incidents’, one was arrested for’ crimen injuria’which he denies took place. What they all have in common is that they were put in holding cells with large crowds of hardened black criminals who then proceeded to gang-rape them. Some of these men also reported that the black police egged these rapists on to rape them… to ‘teach the white man a lesson’.

Black African males in South-Africa view themselves as victors of a racial war, and view these white men as members of the conquered tribe.

Just some of the recently recorded cases:

“Wimpie, a white boy who was dabbling with dagga, is put in our cell. I don’t know how old he really is, perhaps 16 or more, but he looks no older than 14, with skinny arms and short, spiky-crowned, brown hair. He tries to fight, and so they hit him. His resistance stops abruptly when one grabs the back of his head and smashes his face into the steel bars ...The 20 men take it in turns to rape him. It goes on for more than eight hours, almost the whole night. The boy does everything he can, in his pathetic, limited range of action, to try to deter them, but he is ignored. He screams, he cries, he begs, he tries to bargain, he prays.”
“It is in the morning, though, that I am forced to see what life has coughed up before me. What’s left of Wimpie is lying in a corridor between the bunks, just in front of my bed. He is still naked, shivering in a pool of his own blood where they have discarded him. I will literally have to step over the small body to go and eat my breakfast.” http://upetd.up.ac.za/thesis/available/etd-11042008-164328/unrestricted/00front.pdf

“This is a description by Gayton McKenzie, a hardened gang member, of the rape of a young white teenager only known as Wimpie. Where is Wimpie today? Probably dead of Aids, or suicide, as so many male victims of gang rape. If he is alive he might be homeless, addicted to drugs or alcohol as many who do manage to survive the experience. Their lives in ruins around them. “
“An unnamed diabetic man aged 52 from Primrose, Germiston is suing the minister of security for 4.3 million after being illegally arrested twice and being raped in police custody the second time. He was put into a detention cell with 30 black inmates at the Witbank police station. He described how four men carried him around naked in the cell while the rest sang and danced. The man became so emotional, the court had to wait for him to continue with his testimony. The inmates forced him to kneel over a rolled up mattress, then they proceeded to sodomise him until he later lost consciousness. The ‘case’ against him for which he had been arrested in the first place, was withdrawn.

In March 2008 in Polokwane (Pietersburg) a young local man named Nico Bouwer , left with his bride, was sodomised repeatedly while in police custody just a few weeks before he was due to get married. He’s since lost his job due to the emotional trauma, and delivers pizzas to stay alive and keep food on the table for his family. A fundraising effort was launched by Rapport newspaper to help pay his medical bills. Bouwers life is totally in ruins after the attack. Mr Bouwer was on his way home from a friend’s house when his left tyre burst and he hit a light pole and a stoplight. He was taken by ambulance to the Polokwane hospital where he was arrested, and despite being injured in the accident taken to holding cells. He demanded his rights to a phone call but was turned down. In the cell were 25 black inmates. Eight of these black men attacked Bouwer and repeatedly raped him. Some held his arms and forced his face into a pillow while they were sodomising him. He was only allowed to call his lawyer the next day when he was finally released on bail.

In Vryheid, game rancher Etienne van Wyk was being sodomised in a police cell while the inmates were singing, the Pietermaritzburg High Court was told. Van Wyk claimed R1.2m from the Minister of Safety and Security. Van Wyk and Duvenhage were put into the Hlobane police cells after they were arrested for ‘transporting Van Wyk's game animals without a licence”. The suspects in the cells charged with the rape were all hardened criminals predisposed to violence.The farmer did have a license and was released without charges the next day. Inmates 'sang during cell rape' - South Africa | IOL News | IOL.co.za

F...g white pig…

On August 10, 2003 a white Cape Town businessman was sodomised in the police-holding cells at Wynberg magistrate’s court. He later sued the state for damages. The 57 year old professional was arrested and and held in a cell at Claremont police station over a weekend and later transferred to holding cells at Wynberg for his bail application. At Claremont “I was in a cell with a man who screamed at me non-stop that I was a f…ing (wit vark) white pig, I was terrified. After being transferred to Wynberg the man said as soon as the doors to his cell closed he was attacked by a group of men, some armed with knives, who pulled his clothes off and sodomised him. There were about 30 people in the cell and once the door was slammed shut you couldn’t see in or out. There was nothing I could do. All these guys were holding me down. I had no chance. “Your life just basically goes for a ball of ****. I’ve always been a placid person but nowadays I just scream and shout. In 18 years, my partner and I never had a fight, but now everything has changed. “ The man, who is self-employed, said he couldn’t tell anyone what had happened to him in the cell, but he was haunted by the incident.” The ‘case’ for which he had been arrested was dropped. Man recounts horror gang rape in police cells - South Africa | IOL News | IOL.co.za
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Deaths in South African police custody rose to 912 in 2009

Cape Town – Deaths in police custody rose to 912 in 2009.. This is according to a press release on 26 September 2009 by the Independent Complaints Directorate. But the ICD says while these deaths had risen “from 791 the previous year’ , this fact “could not be read as a sign of an increase in police misconduct”. The directorate’s Francois Beukman says when considering the cases carried over from the previous year, the ICD had just more than 11,190 cases to deal with. According to the Mail and Guardian of Feb 13 2008, More than 800 KZN cops were under investigation for crimes ranging from assault through to rape and murder.

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Pictures of some murdered, traumatised and/or arrested/attacked Afrikaners and Boers in 2008/9 - A – B:

A to B: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer Kill the Farmer 2009 victims A - B
B to J: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer Kill the Farmer 2008 victims A - J
C to F http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer Kill the Farmer 2009 victims C - F
G to J: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer Kill the Farmer 2009 victims G - J
K to S: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer kill the Farmer 2009 victims K - S
N to O: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer kill the Farmer 2009 victims N - O
P to R: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer kill the farmer 2009 victims P - R
Q to Z http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer Kill the Farmer 2009 victims Q - Z
Q to Z: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...l the Boer kill the Farmer 2009 victims S - Z
Tourists beware – pictures: http://cid-b6b44a5376348175.skydriv...sts beware of dangerous criminals in S-Africa
sources, court transcripts, original news reports:

And on and on and on ad nauseum.

Who says Mandela was a good man?

Even brushing aside all the crimes against the whites, he terrorized and betrayed the people of his own tribe.
 

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