*****NATIONAL SIGNING DAY on VolNation

[Orange_Vol1321]

I sure hope folks on here will realize the importance of these young men to UT and give them a great welcome. Some of the negative comments on the UT Facebook site are ridiculous. C'mon man!

It is ridiculous, pathetic fat guys posting is more like it.

 

[BeardedVol]

Let the meltdown begin. Some people on here have been licking their chops to ridicule this upcoming class so they can advance their hate Butch agenda. Yes I'm disappointed but all I can do is wait 2 or 3 years and see how this class actually turns out.

 

[KBVol]

Just to put some levity on the star impact. They mentioned a stat yesterday on sports radio. Only 17% of 4 and 5 star college players make up the two teams in the Superbowl teams this year. I think coaching and development is the key. And that is where CBJ still has some question marks. This year will tell a lot since we are replacing a lot of talent.

Here's some more context per 247...

1. this year there are 32 5 star players vs 1,700 3 stars nationally

2. 5 star players are 995 times more likely to be NFL All-Pro players than 3 star players are.

There's no secret to it, it's simply a math issue.

Agree with you that player development is key, especially for this incoming class....Butch and staff have to be better at it going forward imo. Hopefully his staff changes lead to much better results in that area.

 

[LittleCat]

Just like when a kid commits some of you want to search all sites and list his lowest ranking.

If you look at 24/7 and Rivals they show two different numbers. 24/7 has us with four 4* and one 5*. Rivals has us with eleven 4* and no 5*.

Guessing you will use 24/7 since it fits your narrative better huh fade?

The 247 composite is way better to look at than just rivals solo.

 

[fade route]

Just like when a kid commits some of you want to search all sites and list his lowest ranking.

If you look at 24/7 and Rivals they show two different numbers. 24/7 has us with four 4* and one 5*. Rivals has us with eleven 4* and no 5*.

Guessing you will use 24/7 since it fits your narrative better huh fade?

No, a lot of these kids have very average offer lists as well, and we are being outpaced by half the league. It's not a good class any way you slice it. The 2 classes before this one were very solid, but not this one. That's not an agenda, that's looking at things objectively.

 

[chargervol]

The 247 composite is way better to look at than just rivals solo.

There is no such thing as way better now that paying for camps is almost mandatory.
The composite gives Rivals or Hudl, whomever, the ability to torpedo a recruit. Doesn't matter if you're a 4* on more sites, one low grade and you're dropped to 3.

If the rating is consistent across the board, you're probably good. Any major swings from 1 to another, I wouldn't waste my time.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

The 247 composite is way better to look at than just rivals solo.

Agreed but all services list different stars depending on many factors.

My point is when you have a 5* come in a fan will say " he's the best that will ever play here" compared to a 3* " he shouldn't have even been playing High school FB" when they haven't even played a single down in college.

Pump the brakes on either side and let's see who steps up in the Spring and Fall. Because when the 3* beats out a 5* it can't be that their work ethics and learning curve is better, it's the coaches suck and aren't doing their jobs.

 

[MWAVolfan]

There is no such thing as way better now that paying for camps is almost mandatory.
The composite gives Rivals or Hudl, whomever, the ability to torpedo a recruit. Doesn't matter if you're a 4* on more sites, one low grade and you're dropped to 3.

If the rating is consistent across the board, you're probably good. Any major swings from 1 to another, I wouldn't waste my time.

I have noticed this more this year than any other. It seems like so many of the "great" players we committed are seen quite differently by each recruiting service.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

No, a lot of these kids have very average offer lists as well, and we are being outpaced by half the league. It's not a good class any way you slice it. The 2 classes before this one were very solid, but not this one. That's not an agenda, that's looking at things objectively.

How did that bolded statement work out for us? Serious question and not arguing. Would like to see what you think without you using the "coaches suck" narrative.

 

[Catbone]

How did that bolded statement work out for us? Serious question and not arguing. Would like to see what you think without you using the "coaches suck" narrative.

No narrative. Clearly the coaches haven't developed well enough at certain positions. (DB and LB and some OL in particular)

 

[MWAVolfan]

No, a lot of these kids have very average offer lists as well, and we are being outpaced by half the league. It's not a good class any way you slice it. The 2 classes before this one were very solid, but not this one. That's not an agenda, that's looking at things objectively.

Outside of Smith we definitely aren't going big time in this class. It may end up being the worst class Jones has signed yet.

 

[chargervol]

I have noticed this more this year than any other. It seems like so many of the "great" players we committed are seen quite differently by each recruiting service.

Same for the ones that everybody bashes.
Someone released a story rescoring of one of our recruits the other day and said they HADN'T watched his film when they had given his rating. Scored him much higher and called him a likely steal for us.

Rather it's one of our recruits or somebody else's, it's those kids future. That's just pathetic.

 

[fade route]

How did that bolded statement work out for us? Serious question and not arguing. Would like to see what you think without you using the "coaches suck" narrative.

Well many of them haven't developed yet into what we hope they will become, but that doesn't mean you stop going after the best athletes you possibly can. I don't think you're arguing.

 

[MWAVolfan]

How did that bolded statement work out for us? Serious question and not arguing. Would like to see what you think without you using the "coaches suck" narrative.

It's not a narrative it's just a fact. Anyone who can manage to look at this stuff objectively can see that the shine is coming off the penny and Butch has developed a strong reputation as a talker and a sheister. The last two recruiting classes are progressively worse and that's mainly because Butch can't sell early playing time anymore which is how he got those two big classes (and also a lot of good legacy players).

 

[82_VOL_83]

Yep, this is EXACTLY what an 18 year old needs to read after signing today. I would say most of the posters on today are about 2*. The posting class today pretty much sucks ass.

 

[chargervol]

It's not a narrative it's just a fact. Anyone who can manage to look at this stuff objectively can see that the shine is coming off the penny and Butch has developed a strong reputation as a talker and a sheister. The last two recruiting classes are progressively worse and that's mainly because Butch can't sell early playing time anymore which is how he got those two big classes (and also a lot of good legacy players).

I disagree on the last "two" classes. Last year's had the highest average star rating of any class we've had until we added the two guys in summer for depth, that dropped it down. This one is definitely down on average star ranking.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Same for the ones that everybody bashes.
Someone released a story rescoring of one of our recruits the other day and said they HADN'T watched his film when they had given his rating. Scored him much higher and called him a likely steal for us.

Rather it's one of our recruits or somebody else's, it's those kids future. That's just pathetic.

Agreed however...
Bottom line is that it's Butch's job to weed out the overrated players and know who is actually good. He hasn't done that very well at all. He also hasn't done a very good job of coaching up players that clearly were not as advertised. People think that it's just an easy thing to say but the reality is that it all and I mean all comes down to the coaching. If you suck as a coach and developer of talent then you might as well throw those top 5 recruiting classes out the window because they are nothing more than what you described above. Just numbers.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I disagree on the last "two" classes. Last year's had the highest average star rating of any class we've had until we added the two guys in summer for depth, that dropped it down. This one is definitely down on average star ranking.

It's not just about average star rating. It's about how you recruit in relation to your competition. Getting a #10 recruiting class might sound decent until you realize that it's the sixth best recruiting class in the SEC. Context matters to these numbers.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Yep, this is EXACTLY what an 18 year old needs to read after signing today. I would say most of the posters on today are about 2*. The posting class today pretty much sucks ass.

But one thing we should all agree on is that if you are hanging out on Volnation and not focusing on football you probably don't belong at UT.

 

[chargervol]

Agreed however...
Bottom line is that it's Butch's job to weed out the overrated players and know who is actually good. He hasn't done that very well at all. He also hasn't done a very good job of coaching up players that clearly were not as advertised. People think that it's just an easy thing to say but the reality is that it all and I mean all comes down to the coaching. If you suck as a coach and developer of talent then you might as well throw those top 5 recruiting classes out the window because they are nothing more than what you described above. Just numbers.

I found his weakness to be more of keeping assistants longer than you should. He rarely personally coaches a position. Kelly (3*), Kamara and even Hurd before his attitude, have excelled. I give the position coach credit, and blame when needed. But butch hires and fires them so still has ultimate responsibility.

Just needs to let some of them go quicker for certain.

 

[chargervol]

It's not just about average star rating. It's about how you recruit in relation to your competition. Getting a #10 recruiting class might sound decent until you realize that it's the sixth best recruiting class in the SEC. Context matters to these numbers.

and vice versa.
If we finish with the number 4 class, and Georgia or Florida whoever, has the number 10 class, but they have actual better star ranking, that doesn't mean we truly just built the better team. You have to account for both equally.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Well many of them haven't developed yet into what we hope they will become, but that doesn't mean you stop going after the best athletes you possibly can. I don't think you're arguing.

When you look at lets say Blair. I just can't believe the coaches are failing to prepare him to the point of him not being in the starting rotation.

Another point, our DBs never turning around for the ball. I have to think the coaches have told them till their blue in the face to turn and look for the ball.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I sincerely hope these different coaching changes help out developing these kids. I can't disagree with anyone that says development has been where it should've.

 

[LittleCat]

Agreed but all services list different stars depending on many factors.

My point is when you have a 5* come in a fan will say " he's the best that will ever play here" compared to a 3* " he shouldn't have even been playing High school FB" when they haven't even played a single down in college.

Pump the brakes on either side and let's see who steps up in the Spring and Fall. Because when the 3* beats out a 5* it can't be that their work ethics and learning curve is better, it's the coaches suck and aren't doing their jobs.

Composite at least balances them all out instead of being one individual ranking.

 

[MWAVolfan]

and vice versa.
If we finish with the number 4 class, and Georgia or Florida whoever, has the number 10 class, but they have actual better star ranking, that doesn't mean we truly just built the better team. You have to account for both equally.

I think if there is that much disparity in the rankings between 4 and 10 they I do think the 4 ranking means you built a better team. Averages can be influenced by quantity. However quality matters more than quantity. Two 5* players who are actually true concensus 5 star players can have a much bigger impact on results than six or seven guys who are 4* on one site and 3* on another.

That's how I feel about our recruiting. It's sloppy. There is a problem if you can make valid arguments based on the ratings that the class is good or it's not good. Unlike other schools who are seen as having great classes across the board no matter who you talk to. That's a tight recruiting class.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Composite at least balances them all out instead of being one individual ranking.

Composite is good if it's done by an independent group unaffiliated with one of the recruiting services and is just a straight up average. I'm not sure that is true though.