McRae vs Hubbs

#27
#27
CAVol said:
While I agree that DT has done a great job of developing them and deserves credit, why were people on here not giving Martin credit for developing McRae, Golden, Maymon, Richardson, etc. I'm not a Martin fan per se, just playing Devils advocate.
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I don't think either coach is that responsible for developing the players. I think the system helps Moore a lot and to some extent Reese as well. The one thing I am impressed that CDT does towards the players is he tries to figure out how to give confidence to those players to perform and it seems like it has worked. As far as Martin, Im not sure what he did bc he was not as open to the media....It did seem like his experiences and guidance helped Mcrae to mature though. As for actual player development, most of that relies on what is inside the actual individual.
 
#28
#28
I just don't get the thought that CDT has worked some miracle with Hubbs. He played maybe 12 games last year then had shoulder surgery so he missed practically a whole year of practice and game experience. While CDT may be developing him, I am not sure that the improvement we are seeing isn't just as much of Hubbs finally healthy and getting the reps and experience he needs as it is coaching.
 
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#29
#29
bleedingTNorange said:
Volbeast33, you gonna let him post this? We all know a coach doesn't develop players, it's time to set the record straight VB33!
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U already know that I don't agree with that......I think his system maximizes his players abilities to compete with other teams but D Reese does not even reach average big man level at this point....I am proud of what he has accomplished this yr though...Without him we would really be hurting.
 
#30
#30
e-VOL-ution2013 said:
I just don't get the thought that CDT has worked some miracle with Hubbs. He played maybe 12 games last year then had shoulder surgery so he missed practically a whole year of practice and game experience. While CDT may be developing him, I am not sure that the improvement we are seeing isn't just as much of Hubbs finally healthy and getting the reps and experience he needs as it is coaching.
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He hasn't but I do think CDT is helping Hubbs with confidence issues that I feel he has.
 
#31
#31
McRae was the poster boy for terrible shot selection in his Sophomore season. Hubbs on the other hand seems to make pretty good shooting decisions.

Hubbs seems to be building confidence as time goes on, kind of the same thing we saw with Richardson over the years. Josh always had the talent to score from my perspective, he just didn't always have the confidence his first couple years when there were so many players to defer to.

Having said all that, McRae was a player that could score from ANYWHERE on the court and in almost any way by his senior season. Even on defense, as he was a great transition scorer as well.
 
#32
#32
Player development was not the problem with Martin. Player effort was not the problem with Martin. Scheme and probably recruiting were the problems with Martin. He couldn't coach much more than a man to man defense, he couldn't coach an offense against a zone, and he couldn't draw up a play when needed.

But, he inherited very little experience his first year and should be commended for that.
 
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#35
#35
A great drawn up play. Never seen it passed under basket for an open 3. Even though it was missed, it was probably the best possible way to make a 3. Fooled the D expertly.

Go Vols!!
 
#36
#36
VolGee4 said:
Player development was not the problem with Martin. Player effort was not the problem with Martin. Scheme and probably recruiting were the problems with Martin. He couldn't coach much more than a man to man defense, he couldn't coach an offense against a zone, and he couldn't draw up a play when needed.

But, he inherited very little experience his first year and should be commended for that.
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I wonder if he still takes those momentum killing, crowd silencing time outs after made baskets late in close games.
 
#37
#37
CAVol said:
I guess that's where we disagree. Hubbs was injured last year and Reese/Armani/Lopez had better players in front of them.
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You know I'm not really black and white on this. There has to be some player development involved as a coach if you're just talking. I don't know if the individual attention was there with Martin. Tyndall is just head and shoulders above anyone with what he has managed to do with this team. Josh Richardson, a point guard, get outta here!! :detective:
 
#38
#38
SeniorDrill said:
You know I'm not really black and white on this. There has to be some player development involved as a coach if you're just talking. I don't know if the individual attention was there with Martin. Tyndall is just head and shoulders above anyone with what he has managed to do with this team. Josh Richardson, a point guard, get outta here!! :detective:
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I just know first hand how much coaches have in the development of players at the college level. The amount of hours you put in with your coach is huge.
 
#39
#39
VinylVols said:
Unless Hubbs learns how to be as loose as a boiled spaghetti noodle, I'm not sure if he'll ever be the kinda player McRae was, but I definitely still see potential in him.
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From what I have seen in the last two weeks, I think Hubbs will become a much better player than McRae.
 
#40
#40
VOLINVONORE said:
From what I have seen in the last two weeks, I think Hubbs will become a much better player than McRae.
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I'm not ready to go there yet because offensively speaking, RH3 has a major hole in his game (ball-handling) that McRae didn't have. Jordy could do it all, and Hubbs poor ball-handling skills severely limits his ability to create his own shot. That really separates them in my mid right now. If Hubbs can clean up his handle and become quicker with the ball, then he can be great.
 
#41
#41
cncchris33 said:
I'm not ready to go there yet because offensively speaking, RH3 has a major hole in his game (ball-handling) that McRae didn't have. Jordy could do it all, and Hubbs poor ball-handling skills severely limits his ability to create his own shot. That really separates them in my mid right now. If Hubbs can clean up his handle and become quicker with the ball, then he can be great.
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I don't know Chris, McRae's handle was not good. I believe it was one of the problems he needed to fix at the next level. I am not saying Hubbs is better, but Jordy had trouble with the ball in traffic. It got better every year, but it still wasn't great. JMO.
 
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#42
#42
VolGee4 said:
I don't know Chris, McRae's handle was not good. I believe it was one of the problems he needed to fix at the next level. I am not saying Hubbs is better, but Jordy had trouble with the ball in traffic. It got better every year, but it still wasn't great. JMO.
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I didn't mean to imply that McRae was highly-skilled in every way offensively, but Jordy had little problem getting to the rack, or creating his own shot, especially later in his career as you stated. Hubbs doesn't even try at this point. He strictly scores on open looks and putbacks. That's not necessarily a credit to McRae's ball-handling skills as much as it is an indictment against Hubbs. Remember, Zo tinkered with McRae at PG, so his handle obviously wasn't awful. I wouldn't call it a strength, but it wasn't necessarily a glaring weakness in his game to the point that it severely limited his ability to create like it has Hubbs to this point.
 
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#43
#43
cncchris33 said:
I didn't mean to imply that McRae was highly-skilled in every way offensively, but Jordy had little problem getting to the rack, or creating his own shot, especially later in his career as you stated. Hubbs doesn't even try at this point. He strictly scores on open looks and putbacks. That's not necessarily a credit to McRae's ball-handling skills as much as it is an indictment against Hubbs. Remember, Zo tinkered with McRae at PG, so his handle obviously wasn't awful. I wouldn't call it a strength, but it wasn't necessarily a glaring weakness in his game to the point that it severely limited his ability to create like it has Hubbs to this point.
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It wasn't terrible and he could play PG it just wasn't pretty
 
#45
#45
walkenvol said:
In light of CCM trying AM at PG, should we view the above as evidence of anything at all ball handling wise?
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Obviously I'm not trying to make a case for McRae as a PG, nor am I making a case for Martin as a positional virtuoso. You bring up Armani Moore though, and even he is a better ball-handler than Hubbs at this stage. The point I was making was that McRae didn't have that one glaring hole in his game that severely limited him like Hubbs currently does. Was Jordy a great ball-handler? No, but he was an adequate ball-handler, and that specific skill didn't restrict other aspects of his game like it does Hubbs. Hopefully that is a point of emphasis for improvement with a healthy offseason for him.
 
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#46
#46
Well the good news also is Hibbs plays hard on D. McRae didn't for two plus years.
 
#47
#47
5* Hubbs has been humbled and seems to be working hard to prove his rating wasn't a mistake. McRae didn't think his chit had a nasty odor.

I hope that Hubbs can get his confidence level up near where McRae had his.
 
#48
#48
Hubbs is going to be a great player at Tennessee. He has gained the needed confidence and is not playing timid anymore. I expect he will get better with every game.
 
#49
#49
CAVol said:
While I agree that DT has done a great job of developing them and deserves credit, why were people on here not giving Martin credit for developing McRae, Golden, Maymon, Richardson, etc. I'm not a Martin fan per se, just playing Devils advocate.
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Maybe, but the dude seems to struggle with X's and O's.
 
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