Joe VS Past TN QBs

#153
#153
Vol865 said:
You dont have to have a running QB to get numbers but I get that it gives you a +1. However, if you have a legitimate vertical and intermediate passing game, you throw the ball with 6 in the box or run an RPO (not with a QB run attached, there are many variations of an RPO). You can also use play action for aggressive defenses. We ran a spread offense quite a bit with Bray. The only difference is the WR splits. Bray had plenty of arm to make every throw and was able to fit into tight windows. Sam Bradford and Landry Jones ran a similar offense at OU. Not exactly what I would call mobile.
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Bradford and Jones played in the Big12 where there was absolutely no defense. When u play real defenses, they play running QB's differently than pocket passers. I understand RPO, play action, light or heavy boxes and all that good stuff. I'm saying, for this offense to be ran at its peak, you need a guy that is a legit threat with his legs. I don't doubt Bray could have thrown it all over the yard for the very reason u gave. We ran spread with him. I'm saying you're not getting Hooker production from him because he can't do what he does. Between Bray, Dobbs, & Ainge, I think Dobbs is the only one that could come close to Hooker in this offense.
 
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#154
#154
901 Orange said:
Bradford and Jones played in the Big12 where there was absolutely no defense. When u play real defenses, they play running QB's differently than pocket passers. I understand RPO, play action, light or heavy boxes and all that good stuff. I'm saying, for this offense to be ran at its peak, you need a guy that is a legit threat with his legs. I don't doubt Bray could have thrown it all over the yard for the very reason u gave. We ran spread with him. I'm saying you're not getting Hooker production from him because he can't do what he does. Between Bray, Dobbs, & Ainge, I think Dobbs is the only one that could come close to Hooker in this offense.
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At that time in the Big 12, Texas, Nebraska, Mizzou were all good. Same time Nebraska had Ndamukong Suh so I wouldn't say they had no defense at that time. Kansas even had Aqib Talib.

Hooker was damn near perfect for this offense though and I would agree that Dobbs would be a better fit than Bray for the offense. With that said, I think Bray would have the potential to pass for a ton of yards.
 
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#155
#155
rocketskates said:
I 100% agree with you. I think Nico is going to be special, but I don’t think that he was ready to be QB1 this year. Remember the last time we rushed a highly touted freshman into start (Bailey), it didn’t work out so well.
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Bailey was terrible and the expectations were ridiculous, if you saw him play in HS you knew immediately.
 
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#156
#156
Vol865 said:
I wish nothing but the best for Milton but he beat up on the bad teams and floundered against good competition. Most of those QBs also played in a different era. I don't think Milton was bad. I also don't think he was particularly good.
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If anyone "floundered" against the good teams, it was the RBs and OL given how piss poor they were against Bama, Mizzou, and UGA. Milton's worst game was against A&M and it was still a W.
 
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#157
#157
whobethis16 said:
If anyone "floundered" against the good teams, it was the RBs and OL given how piss poor they were against Bama, Mizzou, and UGA. Milton's worst game was against A&M and it was still a W.
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I never said it was all Milton. I've even defended him at times. With that said, some of the problems with the running game stem from the defense not having to respect a vertical or intermediate passing game. You could put Hooker with the same team around him and he would've made them better.
 
#158
#158
Undercs said:
Bailey was terrible and the expectations were ridiculous, if you saw him play in HS you knew immediately.
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Never watched him in HS but he was a four star and third ranked pro style qb at the time so someone saw something in him. I think Nico will be legit, but the year of learning the offense and settling in was probably best for him.
 
#159
#159
Milton’s stat’s generally are padded by the garbage time blow outs wins and losses. Other than Kentucky Tennessee lost to every team it should have based on how he plays in games of consequence. TLDR… He’s a great QB except when it matters most. Low QB IQ, staring down his targets, unable to process when a play is dead or to check down.

He’s got a rocket, and it’s more accurate now, but if the grey matter isn’t there when under pressure of the weight of a big game…. You’re never going to make it beyond college.
 
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#162
#162
JMSqb11 said:
Hard for me to put anyone besides Hooker over Casey because Hooker is the only QB who won at a level like Casey... Or to put it better, Clausen and Hooker had success that the others didn't...

Dobbs as a starter never QB'd a team better than 8-4.....

Casey also had wins in Florida / Bama that really makes that 14-1 record on the road stand out.
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Yeah he was 14-1 on the road against Mike Dubose and Ron Zook (granted he did beat a real Florida team his sophomore year). He also crapped the bed massively at home against Florida his junior year and got demolished by UGA his senior year, throwing 3 picks.

Being great on the road is admirable, but he lost important games in Neyland. On top of that, as fans always point out on here whenever Tee Martin is mentioned… a QBs record is irrelevant and says as much about the talent around him as it does about him.
 
#163
#163
rocketskates said:
Never watched him in HS but he was a four star and third ranked pro style qb at the time so someone saw something in him. I think Nico will be legit, but the year of learning the offense and settling in was probably best for him.
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Had more to do with the talent around him and playing for one of the best high school programs in the country.
 
#164
#164
perico said:
Yeah he was 14-1 on the road against Mike Dubose and Ron Zook (granted he did beat a real Florida team his sophomore year). He also crapped the bed massively at home against Florida his junior year and got demolished by UGA his senior year, throwing 3 picks.

Being great on the road is admirable, but he lost important games in Neyland. On top of that, as fans always point out on here whenever Tee Martin is mentioned… a QBs record is irrelevant and says as much about the talent around him as it does about him.
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The same people who make the QB record as starter is irrelevant are the ones who tried to make mental gymnastics a weekly occurrence with JG in recent history……

Clausen has always been an underrated and under appreciated QB here.

Last starter to win in T town and the Swamp… which we will have a chance in 2025 to end a 22 year drought.
 
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#165
#165
Vol865 said:
I never said it was all Milton. I've even defended him at times. With that said, some of the problems with the running game stem from the defense not having to respect a vertical or intermediate passing game. You could put Hooker with the same team around him and he would've made them better.
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There were 6 games with 0 TDs from the RBs. 6 of 12 (Austin Peay, Florida, A&M, Bama, Mizzou, and Vandy).That's worse than pathetic, and placing really any of the blame on Milton for that when he accounted for 15 TDs, and they won 3 of them, is asinine.
 
#166
#166
rmh1104 said:
Milton’s stat’s generally are padded by the garbage time blow outs wins and losses. Other than Kentucky Tennessee lost to every team it should have based on how he plays in games of consequence. TLDR… He’s a great QB except when it matters most. Low QB IQ, staring down his targets, unable to process when a play is dead or to check down.

He’s got a rocket, and it’s more accurate now, but if the grey matter isn’t there when under pressure of the weight of a big game…. You’re never going to make it beyond college.
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The exact same can be said about the RBs, yet no one is starting thread after thread saying how terrible it was for them to not break 25 yards against the best teams (minus one rush that proved to be a fluke) and having 6 games without a TD among them.
 
#167
#167
JMSqb11 said:
The same people who make the QB record as starter is irrelevant are the ones who tried to make mental gymnastics a weekly occurrence with JG in recent history……

Clausen has always been an underrated and under appreciated QB here.

Last starter to win in T town and the Swamp… which we will have a chance in 2025 to end a 22 year drought.
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Casey was the Road Warrior and is certainly not given his due by Vol fans IMO. He didnt have a cannon for an arm, but last I saw he was still 2nd all time in passing yards at UT behind only Peyton. He played with fire and moxy like Shuler did too...never scared...and the team rallied around him.

Sadly i think those couple games he lost at home were likely due to him partying so much. He drank like a fish...and some of his drinking exploits and womanizing are well documented by those who attended UT as his classmates. The girls are 1 thing, no harm there in most cases. Drinking extremely heavy all the time definitely affects any athletes ability to perform though. Both physically and mentally.

I am still a big CC fan...have his jersey from way back. Its hard not to think "What if?" About him though...much like Bray. Bray wasted more talent than any UT QB in my 46 years of life. Fortunately Casey was smarter than Bray though, and won some huge games for us on the road. Go VOLS
 
#168
#168
marcusluvsvols said:
Casey was the Road Warrior and is certainly not given his due by Vol fans IMO. He didnt have a cannon for an arm, but last I saw he was still 2nd all time in passing yards at UT behind only Peyton. He played with fire and moxy like Shuler did too...never scared...and the team rallied around him.

Sadly i think those couple games he lost at home were likely due to him partying so much. He drank like a fish...and some of his drinking exploits and womanizing are well documented by those who attended UT as his classmates. The girls are 1 thing, no harm there in most cases. Drinking extremely heavy all the time definitely affects any athletes ability to perform though. Both physically and mentally.

I am still a big CC fan...have his jersey from way back. Its hard not to think "What if?" About him though...much like Bray. Bray wasted more talent than any UT QB in my 46 years of life. Fortunately Casey was smarter than Bray though, and won some huge games for us on the road. Go VOLS
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What are your sources for the drinking? I’ve never heard that.
 
#169
#169
lukeneyland said:
What are your sources for the drinking? I’ve never heard that.
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Can't cite more than this, but my sister and brother-in-law were in school at the same time as Clausen and then out one night he came in acting liking a punk with "give me a beer, and I'm not going to pay because I'm Casey Clausen".
 
#170
#170
The 2023 team could never gain confidence because of inconsistent play especially against teams like Virginia and Austin Peay. They should’ve beat them by 50 points.
 
#171
#171
Vol865 said:
At that time in the Big 12, Texas, Nebraska, Mizzou were all good. Same time Nebraska had Ndamukong Suh so I wouldn't say they had no defense at that time. Kansas even had Aqib Talib.

Hooker was damn near perfect for this offense though and I would agree that Dobbs would be a better fit than Bray for the offense. With that said, I think Bray would have the potential to pass for a ton of yards.
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Man I'm old enough to have seen that Era. I was just graduating high school. One of my high school teammates went to OK St to play TE. They absolutely sucked at defense in the Big 12. Yea they had some good teams but that conference still didn't play defense. Just for comparison we can go back to 2007 which would be Bradford's first year. There were 8 teams in the Big12 averaging at least 33ppg. There was 9 teams giving up at least 25ppg. In 2023 10 teams gave up 25ppg from that conference. So not much has changed. Idc if Suh was playing back then the Conference as a whole sucked at defense. There have been plenty of top flight defenders to come out of the big12 but that doesn't change how the conference overall plays defense.
 
#172
#172
rmh1104 said:
Milton’s stat’s generally are padded by the garbage time blow outs wins and losses. Other than Kentucky Tennessee lost to every team it should have based on how he plays in games of consequence. TLDR… He’s a great QB except when it matters most. Low QB IQ, staring down his targets, unable to process when a play is dead or to check down.

He’s got a rocket, and it’s more accurate now, but if the grey matter isn’t there when under pressure of the weight of a big game…. You’re never going to make it beyond college.
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Good summary. All anyone needs to do is look at Milton’s QBR, he was in the 40s before the Vandy blowout which bumped him to 34, I believe. Then look at Hooker’s QBR the last 2 seasons. It’s nothing personal against Milton and it is a team sport BUT you simply cannot put up 16 pts against FL, 20 vs Bama, 6 vs Mizz & 10 vs GA and expect to be competitive. Offense was awful in all four losses with the exception of the 1st half vs. Bama.
 
#173
#173
901 Orange said:
Man I'm old enough to have seen that Era. I was just graduating high school. One of my high school teammates went to OK St to play TE. They absolutely sucked at defense in the Big 12. Yea they had some good teams but that conference still didn't play defense. Just for comparison we can go back to 2007 which would be Bradford's first year. There were 8 teams in the Big12 averaging at least 33ppg. There was 9 teams giving up at least 25ppg. In 2023 10 teams gave up 25ppg from that conference. So not much has changed. Idc if Suh was playing back then the Conference as a whole sucked at defense. There have been plenty of top flight defenders to come out of the big12 but that doesn't change how the conference overall plays defense.
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I was also old enough to see it.

So you're saying the SEC sucks on defense too? Because as of this year, we also have 8 teams that are giving up 25+ppg and last year it was 7. That's half the conference or more.

Back in the late 2000s, most SEC teams thought the spread offense was a gimmick so it was still a Pro Style offense, which typically doesn't put up crazy points. Big 12 had been running the spread.

I'd agree that in the 2010s Big 12 defenses sucked and maybe even some back then some too. Maybe a good portion of that is due to the style of offense ran too.
 
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#174
#174
rmh1104 said:
Milton’s stat’s generally are padded by the garbage time blow outs wins and losses. Other than Kentucky Tennessee lost to every team it should have based on how he plays in games of consequence. TLDR… He’s a great QB except when it matters most. Low QB IQ, staring down his targets, unable to process when a play is dead or to check down.

He’s got a rocket, and it’s more accurate now, but if the grey matter isn’t there when under pressure of the weight of a big game…. You’re never going to make it beyond college.
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Dog out Milton all you like, but you can never say he lost to Lil brother Kentucky who used a WR as a QB.
 
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