Hurd

#126
#126
marcusluvsvols said:
Hurd has nowhere near the talent of the other backs listed, but he was very tough. I give him that all day, and he was a good SEC back. Give him that too. He would have been drafted at RB had he stayed here.

Your argument is the only 1 that holds water for Hurd. I played ball all the way thru school, and understand it well. Hurd was tall, and accelerated slowly, but with all his size, could have been a battering ram if used properly. In the I formation, or any set that have Hurd a 5 yard running start to hit a hole, he would have flat run over LBs, and if he broke a tackle could have had big gains, he was very fast once up to speed, as 6ft4inch guys often are. He was terribly utilized in CBJz offense where he had to stand still, 2 yards back, and wait for a QB to decide whether to keep it or hand it off.

CBJ should have used Hurd in the I formation, or even running out of shotgun, so he had time to gain speed before hittimg the LOS. He could have used Kamara for the up close RPO plays, since he was so quick and could accelerate in a hurry. Both could have had 20 carries a game, Hurd probably still gets the same yards he got 3 at a time over 30 carries, Kamara would have been a great change of pace, we would have controlled the clock, and won more games.

Hurds failure lies on CBJ...him quitting in the middle of a game on an undefeated team makes him a quitter, and he will never shake that, especially in Tennessee. Oh, well. Better coaches now, and i dont think Hurd would even start on this team , if he did then he wiuld split carries with Jordan , Chandler, and Banks...who will be a beast. You can bet that if Hurd were here, he would be used in the I formation, since we have a coach that understands football now. Amen
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Agree violently with all of this except the claim that Hurd wouldn't "even start on this team."
 
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#127
#127
Hurd will be either a second or first round pick next year . Depending on if he still refuses to play Halfback
 
#128
#128
Didn't like what he did, but I NEVER wished him ill will. This has probably been said, but it would've been nice to see him line up in Helton's offense..
 
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#131
#131
Forever151 said:
He was already a definite 1st round when choose to be a wide receiver . And I doubt learning another position would change that . Also what team does not want a 6,4 Wide Reciever that high points balls and runs a 4.3 40
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So you think he was guaranteed to go in the first round the moment he switched positions? Also, there is nothing you could wager that I wouldn't take on him running a 4.3 at the combine.
 
#135
#135
AndyMizunogolfer said:
I am pretty sure I remember this stated by one of the NFL scouts that Hurd was a future 1st rounder. I dont think this was the original article but it cites it.
When it comes to Jalen Hurd, nothing makes sense, now or then
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I remember a piece (and I'm not going to bother looking for it) that quotes a scout or a coach saying "If Hurd had just played out the season at Tennessee, he'd be a mid-1st rounder."

Two things:

1. That's completely absurd. He wouldn't have sniffed the first two days, and likely would have gone undrafted.
2. That's not even remotely the same as saying Hurd will go in the 1st round now that he's a WR.
 
#136
#136
bamawriter said:
I remember a piece (and I'm not going to bother looking for it) that quotes a scout or a coach saying "If Hurd had just played out the season at Tennessee, he'd be a mid-1st rounder."

Two things:

1. That's completely absurd. He wouldn't have sniffed the first two days, and likely would have gone undrafted.
2. That's not even remotely the same as saying Hurd will go in the 1st round now that he's a WR.
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It's this one, which was discussed on here in some other thread about Hurd a while back: Jalen Hurd Is Confident His Multimillion-Dollar Gamble Will Pay Off at Baylor

The "NFL scout" who said that is smoking crack. He claimed Hurd would have been a mid-first round pick if he finished the 2016 season. He was averaging 3.7 YPC that year. Hurd reminds me a lot of Chris Brown (Colorado RB who was a 3rd round pick and played a few years for the Titans), but worse. An Eddie George comparison, while I get they are similarly-sized, I think just really overstates his abilities because I don't think he's anywhere near as quick/fast as George was, and George wasn't fast or elusive at all.
 
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#137
#137
DenmarkVol said:
Ah, another hater who won't give credit where it's due. I really tried to see and respect your point but I just can't. Because it is completely absurd to argue that kind of irrelevant, hair-splitting nonsense. Different runners, different schemes, different times, etc., etc. Hurd's numbers don't lie and yours don't matter. He did what his coaches asked him to do until he chose to not do it anymore...and it is a provable fact that he was pretty good at it...at least according to the UT record books.
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Exactly, Hurd didn’t run behind the Olines Henry enjoyed. Although, I’d take a bowling ball back like Henry or Chubb over a back like Hurd or Eddie George every day.
 
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#138
#138
DenmarkVol said:
Ah, another hater who won't give credit where it's due. I really tried to see and respect your point but I just can't. Because it is completely absurd to argue that kind of irrelevant, hair-splitting nonsense. Different runners, different schemes, different times, etc., etc. Hurd's numbers don't lie and yours don't matter. He did what his coaches asked him to do until he chose to not do it anymore...and it is a provable fact that he was pretty good at it...at least according to the UT record books.
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#139
#139
bamawriter said:
You get to hire one guy to build widgets. Do you take

A) The guy who builds 20 widgets every hour
or
B) The guy who builds 30 widgets every 2 hours?

After all, B is building more widgets.
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No, B is not building more widgets. Your analogy is riddled with logic errors. If you had removed the "every hour" and reworded it appropriately (i.e. "in an hour or in 2 hours), you would have been closer to correct. Your conclusion statement should also be reworded to point out that B BUILT more widgets, not "is building" as "is building" conveys the process as ongoing. As it stands, you are incorrect. I get what you were trying to do.... you just failed at it.
 
#140
#140
DenmarkVol said:
Hurd's numbers don't lie and yours don't matter.
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There is no rushing stat that lies more than career rushing in modern college football. (note this isn't even a Hurd specific observation, it's across the board) Somebody would be our career rushing leader and average 3.0ypc...all it'd take is 1026 attempts. Barry Sander isn't even in OKSt's top 4 in career rushing yards. Go check out any "best UT running back" thread in this forum and near or at the top will be the name Chuck Webb. (my vote for best as well) He's not even top 15 in career yards. Jamal Lewis, basically the only other back most people seem to think as legit competition for Webb in sheer talent, is #4.
 
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#141
#141
AustinMem said:
No, B is not building more widgets. Your analogy is riddled with logic errors. If you had removed the "every hour" and reworded it appropriately (i.e. "in an hour or in 2 hours), you would have been closer to correct. Your conclusion statement should also be reworded to point out that B BUILT more widgets, not "is building" as "is building" conveys the process as ongoing. As it stands, you are incorrect. I get what you were trying to do.... you just failed at it.
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You didn't get it. The point of my hypothetical was that comparing Hurd to the other backs in question is problematic because Hurd was given two hours to build widgets while the others only got one.
 
#142
#142
bamawriter said:
You didn't get it. The point of my hypothetical was that comparing Hurd to the other backs in question is problematic because Hurd was given two hours to build widgets while the others only got one.
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I don't get what is so hard to understand about the concept of efficiency.

@AustinMem: If Travis Henry got as many carries as Hurd did, he would have rushed for 3,240 yards, which is 605 yards more than what Hurd rushed for. Travis Henry rushed for a full yard per carry, on average, more than Hurd did. He did so much more with the touches he got than Hurd did with the touches he got. So did Jamal Lewis. Cedric Houston, Jay Graham, and Travis Stephens were also more efficient runners than Hurd. Limited sample size because he got hurt, but if Chuck Webb got as many carries as Hurd, he would have rushed for a staggering 3,416 yards. Yardage totals are one thing, but I don't think Hurd was even a top 10 back in school history.

If your primary argument for the skill of a player is his standing on the career rushing list, that isn't a great argument.
 
#143
#143
05_never_again said:
I don't get what is so hard to understand about the concept of efficiency.

@AustinMem: If Travis Henry got as many carries as Hurd did, he would have rushed for 3,240 yards, which is 605 yards more than what Hurd rushed for. Travis Henry rushed for a full yard per carry, on average, more than Hurd did. He did so much more with the touches he got than Hurd did with the touches he got. So did Jamal Lewis. Cedric Houston, Jay Graham, and Travis Stephens were also more efficient runners than Hurd. Limited sample size because he got hurt, but if Chuck Webb got as many carries as Hurd, he would have rushed for a staggering 3,416 yards. Yardage totals are one thing, but I don't think Hurd was even a top 10 back in school history.

If your primary argument for the skill of a player is his standing on the career rushing list, that isn't a great argument.
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By itself I totally agree. That number doesn't prove he falls where ever he is on that list, no different than some of the others. Had he finished his career at the top in total yards it wouldn't change that idea either. I think Webb was the most talented back to ever play at UT but his sample size is hard to ignore even with the efficiency when he had a more incomplete career compared to several others.

I don't think Hurd is as bad as some want to think and probably not as good as others want to think either. He would have fit Fulmer's and Pruitt's scheme better than Jones.
 
#144
#144
I hope Somebody from Duke knocks the **** out of him harder than he did when tried to walk into the endzone. He’s such a punk ass bitch, already talking smack after taking a loss on a bubble.
 
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#145
#145
VFFL@THE BEACH said:
I know it is difficult for guys that have never played the game to understand players roles and value. Hurd had a role and added value to a dismal team.

Was Hurd elite? His stats and numbers say he is in the conversation. He also started as a true freshman in the SEC during the worst decade of Tennessee football. Bamawriter says he also had more carries, probably true but he also played in the worst decade of Tennessee football and for bj.

Was Hurd perfect?
Definitely not, he seemed slow at times but again he was getting crushed most plays. Many times he had to brake a tackle in the first couple of steps. Tough to get moving fast when you are breaking tackles that quickly.

Tough? Definitely, tough and size doesen't matter we all know big guys that aren't tough.

Smart? Yes, No, maybe so? At times he seemed to seek out contact instead of gaining yards.

Smart enough to leave bj and possibly improve his situation.

Dumb enough to leave teammates and fans hanging. If he stayed or atleast didn't quit in the middle of a game then he would have wanted for nothing in Knoxville. Jobs, respect and free beers would have been his for life.

I don't hold him up to be a hero but he was the man in the ring and dosen't deserve undo criticism.
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I believe he is due some criticism.
 
#146
#146
VFFL@THE BEACH said:
Have you compared their 40 yard dash and shuttle run times.... Hurd is faster. Uh?

Back to my previous points.
1. If you haven't played the game its hard to understand.
2. The players around you matter... difficult to be fast when you are constantly breaking tackles.
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40 times and shuttle are worthless. They are done in ideal conditions without pads. Like I said, just go back and watch the film. I am sorry if you just cannot see that Hurd is nowhere in Henrys league. Stop with the argument that if you havent played its hard to understand. No its not.
 
#147
#147
Just flipped over to see a series of the Baylor / Duke game. Hurd was targeted once, qb threw the ball late and it was a pick six. The db ran off and left Hurd. Either Hurd was slow or he gave up. His body language looked similar to the quit he had in him at times at UT. Didn’t see him after that. I know he has had some challenges and made a big move to WR. Hopefully he can have some success and the move will payoff. That small sample looked rough.
 
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#149
#149
Yes, it is hard to understand if you haven't put on a helmet. You haven't put on the gear then you have a different perspective. A perspective from the sidelines. I will continue the arguement because you must respect the man in the ring. Look up Teddy's quote, it will improve your life. Much like Mark Rippetoe.

Your argument of "elite" is splitting hairs and frankly makes you sound whiny. Hurd was good, darn good and he sacrificed his body for my beloved vols. If you can't see that then sorry you don't understand football.
Did Hurd handle bj well? No and Hurd will forever be judged in Knoxville.

I would buy Hurd a beer(if he is 21). I would not sit down and drink with a man named bj or haslum...

GBO
 
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