GM Recalls another 8.45 Million cars - death toll rises to 16

#26
#26
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#27
#27
MSME Vol said:
It's a terrible situation for sure, but assigning fault is pointless. Should the car have been fixed? Yes. Should the husband been able to stop the car still? Yes. Is GM paying the price for its part? Yes. Are there countless other cases with other auto makers that unfortunately lead to fatal events? Yes. Can engineers protect against every use case in the world? No. I'm not endorsing how everything unfolded in this case. I'm just saying look at all the factors rationally before jumping to a conclusion. GM still is an American company. It and Ford are the only two true American auto makers left. They represent a huge sector of the American economy. If we start blasting them unfairly, then we are only setting ourselves up to fail.
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Check the facts. GM broke their own policies/procedures and covered up a serious design problem.

Have you seen the before and after pictures of the part in question? It is a significant change.

People died after GM knew this part was a serious issue. Trying to justify this as "ok" because GM is one of the last true American automakers is ignorant.

The cover up is the issue. It is a trust issue - this scandal undermines the public confidence/trust in GM.
 
#29
#29
ajvol01 said:
Check the facts. GM broke their own policies/procedures and covered up a serious design problem.

Have you seen the before and after pictures of the part in question? It is a significant change.

People died after GM knew this part was a serious issue. Trying to justify this as "ok" because GM is one of the last true American automakers is ignorant.

The cover up is the issue. It is a trust issue - this scandal undermines the public confidence/trust in GM.
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again, I'm no fan of GM, however I have had vehicles stall on me before and I never lost control in the absence of power steering and brakes

I've lost power in a big truck before, you want to be scared ****less? try driving an 80 thousand pound vehicle with unassisted steering and dwindling air pressure.

Many of the deaths associated with the GM recall cannot be attributed directly or even tangentially to the failure of the ignition switch.
 
#30
#30
MG1968 said:
again, I'm no fan of GM, however I have had vehicles stall on me before and I never lost control in the absence of power steering and brakes

I've lost power in a big truck before, you want to be scared ****less? try driving an 80 thousand pound vehicle with unassisted steering and dwindling air pressure.

Many of the deaths associated with the GM recall cannot be attributed directly or even tangentially to the failure of the ignition switch.
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That doesn't negate or minimize the loss for the 13 or more deaths that can be directly attributed to this defect. Deaths that happened after GM engineers found the issue and quietly modified the design with no part number change.

Think if it was someone in your family.

GM tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug while knowing that more accidents could and most likely would occur.

This is not unique to GM - Toyota just got slammed with $1.2 B in fines for their "handling" of the recent acceleration issues.
 
#32
#32
ajvol01 said:
That doesn't negate or minimize the loss for the 13 or more deaths that can be directly attributed to this defect. Deaths that happened after GM engineers found the issue and quietly modified the design with no part number change.

Think if it was someone in your family.

GM tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug while knowing that more accidents could and most likely would occur.

This is not unique to GM - Toyota just got slammed with $1.2 B in fines for their "handling" of the recent acceleration issues.
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far worse than anything my Commander in Chief has done to this country is the inability for people to accept that bad things happen. This isn't a major catastrophe. Yeah, it sucks and I would be devastated if something happened to a member of my family, but this woe is me, let's always blame someone for everything approach is detrimental to development of the country and the individual. GM has a faulty ignition switch, got it. It's a crazy circumstance that results in death, and by ratio it's happened very, very little, yet so many want to act like Chevy is the Anti Christ.
 
#33
#33
volfanbill said:
far worse than anything my Commander in Chief has done to this country is the inability for people to accept that bad things happen. This isn't a major catastrophe. Yeah, it sucks and I would be devastated if something happened to a member of my family, but this woe is me, let's always blame someone for everything approach is detrimental to development of the country and the individual. GM has a faulty ignition switch, got it. It's a crazy circumstance that results in death, and by ratio it's happened very, very little, yet so many want to act like Chevy is the Anti Christ.
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GM falsified records and bypassed procedures to prevent a recall.

People died due to the defective part after GM engineers identified the problem and after a recall could have been issued.

What is this "woe is me" that you speak of?
 
#34
#34
ajvol01 said:
That doesn't negate or minimize the loss for the 13 or more deaths that can be directly attributed to this defect. Deaths that happened after GM engineers found the issue and quietly modified the design with no part number change.

Think if it was someone in your family.

GM tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug while knowing that more accidents could and most likely would occur.

This is not unique to GM - Toyota just got slammed with $1.2 B in fines for their "handling" of the recent acceleration issues.
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Those "acceleration" issues where an even bigger joke than GMs recent clusters.


A lot of it stems from the fact people barely know anything about their vehicles any more. They know the bare minimum to get in and go from A to B. They have no idea how to truly control them.

GM is paying a heavy enough price as it is. I'm not sure what else should be done.
 
#35
#35
WallyBalls said:
Those "acceleration" issues where an even bigger joke than GMs recent clusters.


A lot of it stems from the fact people barely know anything about their vehicles any more. They know the bare minimum to get in and go from A to B. They have no idea how to truly control them.

GM is paying a heavy enough price as it is. I'm not sure what else should be done.
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How so?

A Toyota supplier had a defect in an electronic part that caused the issue.

I don't think typical soccer moms or grandmas should be expected to control a car that is accelerating in its own.
 
#36
#36
ajvol01 said:
GM falsified records and bypassed procedures to prevent a recall.

People died due to the defective part after GM engineers identified the problem and after a recall could have been issued.

What is this "woe is me" that you speak of?
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because you want to blame every death on something or someone and not an unfortunate incident. It's not incredibly hard to control a car after those parts quit assisting you. As mentioned (but you totally glossed over), most of the deaths associated with this recall had other, much larger circumstances resulting in the death. But keep glossing over that.
 
#37
#37
ajvol01 said:
That doesn't negate or minimize the loss for the 13 or more deaths that can be directly attributed to this defect. Deaths that happened after GM engineers found the issue and quietly modified the design with no part number change.

Think if it was someone in your family.

GM tried to sweep the whole thing under the rug while knowing that more accidents could and most likely would occur.

This is not unique to GM - Toyota just got slammed with $1.2 B in fines for their "handling" of the recent acceleration issues.
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Life is not without risk though. The point is that the chances of this failure aren't that high and when it does occur the result isnt instant game over. The driver should be able to control the vehicle perfectly well. I have checked the facts. Much deeper than most I would say. Again of the documented fatalities, only ONE did not involve alcohol or no use of a seatbelt. GM engineers saw all the numbers and by the numbers determined that a recall wasn't needed. Not that I think you'll care but all of that occurred prior to 2009 when a major company restructuring occurred. GM is now working tirelessly to make sure that ever your air conditioner doesn't fail for you with their latest wave of recalls.

I wasn't trying to say that GM should be treated special because they are American. More like asking why exactly do we treat foreign auto makers special because they are foreign? If all things are equal and each has their faults, then I would support the home team.
 
#38
#38
But maybe we should sue Chevy so that the cars can't go over the speed limit and that the driver can't drive impaired.
 
#40
#40
MSME Vol said:
Life is not without risk though. The point is that the chances of this failure aren't that high and when it does occur the result isnt instant game over. The driver should be able to control the vehicle perfectly well. I have checked the facts. Much deeper than most I would say. Again of the documented fatalities, only ONE did not involve alcohol or no use of a seatbelt. GM engineers saw all the numbers and by the numbers determined that a recall wasn't needed. Not that I think you'll care but all of that occurred prior to 2009 when a major company restructuring occurred. GM is now working tirelessly to make sure that ever your air conditioner doesn't fail for you with their latest wave of recalls.

I wasn't trying to say that GM should be treated special because they are American. More like asking why exactly do we treat foreign auto makers special because they are foreign? If all things are equal and each has their faults, then I would support the home team.
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You're excusing the cover up aspect of this issue.

If it was as benign as you claim then a new part number would have been created.
 
#42
#42
ajvol01 said:
How so?

A Toyota supplier had a defect in an electronic part that caused the issue.

I don't think typical soccer moms or grandmas should be expected to control a car that is accelerating in its own.
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It didn't prevent them from taking the car out of gear. That's a simple reaction anyone should know. That was my point...so many people barely know what neutral even means.

Also, Car and Driver did a test where they planted the throttle and allowed the car to accelerate then stomped the brakes. The cars slowed to a stop every time.
 
#43
#43
MSME Vol said:
Life is not without risk though. The point is that the chances of this failure aren't that high and when it does occur the result isnt instant game over. The driver should be able to control the vehicle perfectly well. I have checked the facts. Much deeper than most I would say. Again of the documented fatalities, only ONE did not involve alcohol or no use of a seatbelt. GM engineers saw all the numbers and by the numbers determined that a recall wasn't needed. Not that I think you'll care but all of that occurred prior to 2009 when a major company restructuring occurred. GM is now working tirelessly to make sure that ever your air conditioner doesn't fail for you with their latest wave of recalls.

I wasn't trying to say that GM should be treated special because they are American. More like asking why exactly do we treat foreign auto makers special because they are foreign? If all things are equal and each has their faults, then I would support the home team.
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Since do foreign manufacturers get special treatment? Did you miss the raking over the coals Toyota got a coupe of years ago?

I was looking at Toyota at the time and the dealer was blaming a government conspiracy to make the company look bad..... And it was Obama's fault of course.
 
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#44
#44
ajvol01 said:
How so?

A Toyota supplier had a defect in an electronic part that caused the issue.

I don't think typical soccer moms or grandmas should be expected to control a car that is accelerating in its own.
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Then they shouldn't be behind the wheel. Our system of licensing drivers is woefully inadequate.
 
#45
#45
They knew about the defect and tried to avoid recalling the vehicles to save some money. I certainly won't buy one made from a ****ty company like that, particularly following their bull**** bailout.

The families of those who were killed due to GMs negligence and in-action certainly have grounds for suit.
 
#46
#46
Had a 2011 gmc acadia, bought new. At 30,000 the transmission went out, water pump leak, rack and pinion leak. Needless to say that ride is traded off. Piece of junk
 
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