Gators lose top defensive player for season

#26
#26
Boogie said:
I think this year will be very revealing for McElwain and his tenure at Florida. If he can keep the wheels on the wagon and compete for/win the East despite the roster turnover, I'll be very impressed with the job he's done.

He was given a golden egg on the defensive side of the ball, kind of like being given a team with training wheels. The training wheels are off this season.
Click to expand...

Quality post right there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
Recruiting second best in Florida does not exactly equal "fairly mediocre fashion."

Having said that, Florida's problems on offense have been due almost entirely to the problems we have had at the QB position.

Brissett had talent, but no receivers, and was not coached well.

Driskel was a Tebow-like QB for purposes of a dual threat offense, but the line was made up of a bunch of slow guys who got pushed around quite easily.

We had some other transfers.

then we had the Great Treon Harris Debacle of '14-'15. About 5 foot-nothing, and floated the ball out there like he was casting for bass. Add to that the fact that the Oline STILL was made up of guys too slow and/or injured to play at this level, and we just had no chance.

Grier had the talent. He had some players around him. Then he drank a roid-smoothie and ends up at W. Va. for really no damn good reason at all.

Del Rio? Appleby? Meh.

We need QBs that can stick around and be cultivated WITH an offensive line and receivers to work with them for a year before we expect UF to both recruit to sustain (which comes from winning) and recruit at the same level as FSU.

Right now, if you are an offensive player in Florida with definite NFL potential and willing to leave home, you want to play at Alabama. If you are that same kid that wants to stay closer to home, you want to play for FSU.

We need to change that. Right now its QB by committee and scheming to develop three good plays a game, and that is not keeping up with the Joneses.

But what we need to do is right in front of us. We all know it. McElwain can get it done, I do believe. And the fanbase gets it.

You guys? Not sure the path back to the top of the SECe is all that clear for you, much less back to being a factor at the national level. You've got some stars, yes, but surrounded by too much blech players in standard roles.

Plus your coaching staff seems bound and determined to pull a Mark "Let me see how I can just sort of zone out and make the wrong decision" Richt twice a year.
Click to expand...

So all you guys need is a QB? We have two great options to follow Dobbs and we don't have a clear path? Even though we have recruited well and are, by recruiting rankings over the last four years, the most talented team in the SECe? I would argue we are right there with FL and GA, as well as the west, minus AL. McElwain may yet become an elite coach, but I wouldn't hold my breath. A supposed QB expert has failed to develop anything thus far and we just had one drafted and we are supposed to be terrible at it? I'm not sure I follow the logic.
 
#28
#28
For the Gator fans on the board: really sorry to hear about your lad's injury. Most especially feel for him and his family, a lot was riding on this year for him, from enjoying his final college year to getting a leg up on an NFL shot.

Always sucks to lose one of the good ones, esp. before the season even begins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#29
#29
99bubble said:
So all you guys need is a QB? We have two great options to follow Dobbs and we don't have a clear path? Even though we have recruited well and are, by recruiting rankings over the last four years, the most talented team in the SECe? I would argue we are right there with FL and GA, as well as the west, minus AL. McElwain may yet become an elite coach, but I wouldn't hold my breath. A supposed QB expert has failed to develop anything thus far and we just had one drafted and we are supposed to be terrible at it? I'm not sure I follow the logic.
Click to expand...

I trust McElwain to do more with less almost as much as I expect Jones to do less with more.

The last two seasons are Exhibit A and Exhibit B.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#30
#30
VFL-82-JP said:
For the Gator fans on the board: really sorry to hear about your lad's injury. Most especially feel for him and his family, a lot was riding on this year for him, from enjoying his final college year to getting a leg up on an NFL shot.

Always sucks to lose one of the good ones, esp. before the season even begins.
Click to expand...

Thanks friend.

Hope Marcel heals up soon and eventually kills it in the combine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#31
#31
Lawrence Wright said:
I trust McElwain to do more with less almost as much as I expect Jones to do less with more.

The last two seasons are Exhibit A and Exhibit B.
Click to expand...

That's great about McElwain doing more with less, LW.

Remember that Florida defense last September 26th that allowed Tennessee to score 38 points in 26:45 of actual game time (from the 5:12 mark of the 2nd quarter to the 8:27 mark of the 4th quarter)? Yeah, well... that defense will be without 7 of the top 100 players taken in the 2017 NFL Draft:

Quincy Wilson (#31)
Marcus Maye (#39)
Jarrad Davis (#40)
Jalen Tabor (#53)
Byran Cox (#64)
Alex Anzalone (#76)
Caleb Brantley (#99)

...and now, you're without Marcell Harris as well. Good luck with that whole "doing more with less" thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#33
#33
BowlBrother85 said:
That's great about McElwain doing more with less, LW.

Remember that Florida defense last September 26th that allowed Tennessee to score 38 points in 26:45 of actual game time (from the 5:12 mark of the 2nd quarter to the 8:27 mark of the 4th quarter)? Yeah, well... that defense will be without 7 of the top 100 players taken in the 2017 NFL Draft:

Quincy Wilson (#31)
Marcus Maye (#39)
Jarrad Davis (#40)
Jalen Tabor (#53)
Byran Cox (#64)
Alex Anzalone (#76)
Caleb Brantley (#99)

...and now, you're without Marcell Harris as well. Good luck with that whole "doing more with less" thing.
Click to expand...

I was referring to our offense with the "more with less" comment. McElwain had 6 scholarship OL his first season...and wound up with Treon Harris as a starting QB. Stole the game against you guys in Gainesville and won the East.

And yes, we lost to you guys last season. Then you inexplicably lost to Vanderbilt and South Carolina.

You might very well beat us again in September. But until proven otherwise, I fully expect Butch Jones to lose a game or two against teams UT should boatrace.

I would never trade winning the East for a chance to pound my chest over beating Tennessee during the regular season...while losing the East.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#34
#34
Lawrence Wright said:
I was referring to our offense with the "more with less" comment. McElwain had 6 scholarship OL his first season...and wound up with Treon Harris as a starting QB. Stole the game against you guys in Gainesville and won the East.

And yes, we lost to you guys last season. Then you inexplicably lost to Vanderbilt and South Carolina.

You might very well beat us again in September. But until proven otherwise, I fully expect Butch Jones to lose a game or two against teams UT should boatrace.

I would never trade winning the East for a chance to pound my chest over beating Tennessee during the regular season...while losing the East.
Click to expand...

Sad, but, true.... Solid post, as usual, LW.
 
#35
#35
99bubble said:
So all you guys need is a QB? We have two great options to follow Dobbs and we don't have a clear path? Even though we have recruited well and are, by recruiting rankings over the last four years, the most talented team in the SECe? I would argue we are right there with FL and GA, as well as the west, minus AL. McElwain may yet become an elite coach, but I wouldn't hold my breath. A supposed QB expert has failed to develop anything thus far and we just had one drafted and we are supposed to be terrible at it? I'm not sure I follow the logic.
Click to expand...


I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#37
#37
Terrible injury and the timing sucks even more being his last shot at college.

Heres to a full recovery and his career moving forward.
 
#38
#38
Lawrence Wright said:
I was referring to our offense with the "more with less" comment. McElwain had 6 scholarship OL his first season...and wound up with Treon Harris as a starting QB. Stole the game against you guys in Gainesville and won the East.

And yes, we lost to you guys last season. Then you inexplicably lost to Vanderbilt and South Carolina.

You might very well beat us again in September. But until proven otherwise, I fully expect Butch Jones to lose a game or two against teams UT should boatrace.

I would never trade winning the East for a chance to pound my chest over beating Tennessee during the regular season...while losing the East.
Click to expand...

All this.
 
#39
#39
VolFreakJosh said:
They still have elite talent but the coaching is mediocre at best.

It's not that McElwain is a better coach than Jones.

Florida had no business winning the East two years in a row when it should have been us.
Click to expand...

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

McElwain is a good game-day coach...

He found a way to beat CBJ in 2015...

And CJM went on the road to beat LSU to win the SEC East....

CBJ couldn't go to USCe after an OFF WEEK and beat Muschamp to win the SEC East...

I hate the Gators as much as anyone--but CJM has done a better job of coaching up what talent he has when compared to CBJ....

CBJ hasn't beaten ANY team from the West....0-8.....:salute:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#40
#40
Lawrence Wright said:
I was referring to our offense with the "more with less" comment. McElwain had 6 scholarship OL his first season...and wound up with Treon Harris as a starting QB. Stole the game against you guys in Gainesville and won the East.

And yes, we lost to you guys last season. Then you inexplicably lost to Vanderbilt and South Carolina.

You might very well beat us again in September. But until proven otherwise, I fully expect Butch Jones to lose a game or two against teams UT should boatrace.

I would never trade winning the East for a chance to pound my chest over beating Tennessee during the regular season...while losing the East.
Click to expand...

Your posts make a lot of sense....:salute:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#41
#41
lawgator1 said:
Recruiting second best in Florida does not exactly equal "fairly mediocre fashion."

Right now, if you are an offensive player in Florida with definite NFL potential and willing to leave home, you want to play at Alabama. If you are that same kid that wants to stay closer to home, you want to play for FSU.

We need to change that.
Click to expand...

FSU under Fisher will continue to recruit well...
Bama under Saban gets just about whomever they want...

And I do believe that Miama under Richt will continue to get better and re-establish the rivalry with FSU...

And that will definitely make the Gators the 3rd tier program again in Fla...

CJM just doesn't have the charisma and credibility like Spurrier and Meyer did to pull the best recruits to Gainesville...

Having said that...I still think CJM is a good coach...

What he's accomplished in his first 2 years is phenomenal--considering the level of talent he has had on offense...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#42
#42
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.

When you have a series of a few years (or in our case, about a decade) of terrible QB play and most of all inconsistency, it s hard to sell a quality WR or an NFL offensive line prospect on the idea of coming to UF to be in an offense with ??????

Once you have a guy in there for a couple of years, and they are putting up numbers, and there's a guy right behind him you can say, hey, this QB is going to make YOU look good to the NFL, then you get sustained success on the field and in recruiting.

Saban is a master at that. Florida, though boobery by Muschamp and a lot of bad luck otherwise has had no consistency on offense, making it tough to convince top recruits come be in the pipeline to whatever amalgamation of mediocrity we are going to come up with next year.

Tennessee, on the other hand, has had a sustained QB progression and yet keeps coming up behind UF in the SECe, while UF puts its offense together every year with chewing gum and kite string.

In other words, I feel like we have had an excuse, or at least an explanation, for our mediocrity for the last 5-10 years.

Whats' yours?
Click to expand...

First of all...Dooley. We had to start year two with Butch with almost no starts for our offensive line, our APR was borderline to lose schollys, and we just finished 1-7 two years in a row with Dooley. I'd argue Dooley was much more damaging to UT than Muschamp was to FL. Secondly...injuries absolutely played a part last year. Losing almost every d-tackle took its toll on the season. Losing to Vandy and SC sucked, but I'm still seeing good recruiting and progression. Like I said, maybe McElwain will be an elite coach and do less with more, because right now he has no choice. After almost three full years on the job your roster is not fully re-built nor do you have an answer at the one spot that he was supposed to be awesome at. He's 1-1 against Butch so far. We'll see how it goes, but I still don't see a wide chasm between TN and FL like you do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#44
#44
MikeVol44 said:
FSU under Fisher will continue to recruit well...
Bama under Saban gets just about whomever they want...

And I do believe that Miama under Richt will continue to get better and re-establish the rivalry with FSU...

And that will definitely make the Gators the 3rd tier program again in Fla...

CJM just doesn't have the charisma and credibility like Spurrier and Meyer did to pull the best recruits to Gainesville...

Having said that...I still think CJM is a good coach...

What he's accomplished in his first 2 years is phenomenal--considering the level of talent he has had on offense...
Click to expand...

Jimbo Fisher is a much bigger problem for our football program than Nick Saban.

Playing second fiddle to Alabama won't get you fired.

Getting blown out by FSU every year, on the field and recruiting, will get you fired.

Add in Richt at Miami...yeah, that's a problem too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#45
#45
lawgator1 said:
I'm speaking to the notion of sustained recruiting being a function of sustained success in winning. Saban barely has to recruit because every player who wants to go to the NFL knows that if he invites them to Alabama, its a road to the NFL for them. That, in turn, is because Saban has built a program where a one loss season is a disappointment.
Click to expand...

Saban would never admit to this, in fact he says quite often to the contrary, but it's true. For the last 3 or 4 years, the program has essentially been on autopilot as far as recruiting. All of the best players in the country, especially the SEC states, don't need much convincing to come to Alabama. They all show a lot of interest, and Alabama can essentially pick the ones they want.

The hardest and best work that Saban did was actually in his first 3 to 5 years. That's where you establish the "we are a road straight to the NFL" brand. Of course you still have to coach the guys once they get there, but the foundation has been laid. Other programs, some of which are consistently good, have to keep laying the foundation again as time goes on.
 
#46
#46
99bubble said:
First of all...Dooley. We had to start year two with Butch with almost no starts for our offensive line, our APR was borderline to lose schollys, and we just finished 1-7 two years in a row with Dooley. I'd argue Dooley was much more damaging to UT than Muschamp was to FL. Secondly...injuries absolutely played a part last year. Losing almost every d-tackle took its toll on the season. Losing to Vandy and SC sucked, but I'm still seeing good recruiting and progression. Like I said, maybe McElwain will be an elite coach and do less with more, because right now he has no choice. After almost three full years on the job your roster is not fully re-built nor do you have an answer at the one spot that he was supposed to be awesome at. He's 1-1 against Butch so far. We'll see how it goes, but I still don't see a wide chasm between TN and FL like you do.
Click to expand...

Kiffin's departure is what truly torpedoed the program for 4-5 years. It's what decimated that year's recruiting class and, of course, led directly to the hiring of Dooley.

I know it's a blow to the ego of Vols fans but remember that Derek Dooley was, without the benefit of hindsight, the best coach that would take the job at the time. Yes, it sounds crazy now, but he actually was the most qualified guy who was actually interested in the job. Was he an awful coach? Of course he was. But the reason a coach like him was the best available to begin with was because Kiffin left.

And if you want to blame the downfall of Tennessee football (and athletics generally) on a single person, it has to be Mike Hamilton.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#49
#49
This may put a freshman starting at corner there. It stinks for Harris. It will benefit the stats of opposing receivers.
 
#50
#50
05_never_again said:
Kiffin's departure is what truly torpedoed the program for 4-5 years. It's what decimated that year's recruiting class and, of course, led directly to the hiring of Dooley.

I know it's a blow to the ego of Vols fans but remember that Derek Dooley was, without the benefit of hindsight, the best coach that would take the job at the time. Yes, it sounds crazy now, but he actually was the most qualified guy who was actually interested in the job. Was he an awful coach? Of course he was. But the reason a coach like him was the best available to begin with was because Kiffin left.

And if you want to blame the downfall of Tennessee football (and athletics generally) on a single person, it has to be Mike Hamilton.
Click to expand...

I agree with much of what you posted here but not this. Kevin Sumlin (not saying he is a great coach, just better than Dooley) did express interest in Tennessee in January of 2010. He had just finished his 2nd season at Houston and finished with 10-4 record. He would have made more sense than Dooley.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top