From Outsiders perspective

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BudBarry

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#1
I, along with some others, admire the tenacity and pure faithfulness of the Vol-Nation. It's not unusual for fans of other teams to continue watching games of a previous opponent (TN). Reading threads on this forum, especially after Saturday nights showing against the Hogs, I see some similiarities to things we have gone thru.

Just a small background, I coached HS fb back home in OK. I had the honor to play for 2 OK HS HOF coaches. I had the privilage to play small college ball and then I joined the service. I would like to throw something into the mix on the VN board.
It seems that your OC, Deboard, is all over the place on the play-calling. Not every play is meant to bust the long one. It's like playing chess. You have to set the opponent up to make a move that will pay dividends later on. Deboard is stuck in neutral it seems. I have read for the past couple of weeks or so how it seems TN is running vanilla offense, saving something for later on. I believe that's all of the offense TN has to offer. My judgement on our OC, Lincoln Riley is still out (I think he is doing much better each week), but what he said about how he calls the game struck me the other night as I watched Deboard in the Press Box. Riley was quoted as saying he prefers to call the game on the field so that 1) he has a better grasp of what is going on and 2) he can look the offense in the eye, give the play and make sure that his directives are understood. And if there is some uncertainty, he wants to be right there, eye to eye with the players to calm them down and answer any questions, one on one. Deboard looks like he's questioning his own play-calling. Just saying.

As for a coaching carousel. Every program that has had a successful coach step down, either on thier own or due to other circumstances, has had turmoil. NEB after Osborn....Solich, Callahan, Pelini. OKLA after Switzer...Gibbs, Schnellenberger, Blake. TEX after Royal...Akers, Williams, Mackovic, Mack Brown. You get the idea. We got lucky with Stoops. We still question his coaching at times, but I honestly think he listens at the end of the day. Will Jones? I don't think anybody knows. Stoops was wise enough to try with staff changes. If Jones doesn't at the end of this season, I don't think he has a job. I know that boosters can and sometimes will (although I think it's BS really) alter a program because of their own damn pride and ego.

Recruiting is a big part of a programs success and continued success. Coaching is much bigger IMHO. I'll take a roster of 3* recruits coached by the likes of a Bill Snyder at K-State that understand fundamentals and the game over 4-5* that are stagnant, as though they are still playing HS ball. A kid that steps onto a college field, in a top college program like TN, better understand that if they can contribute, then contribute. My own personal opinion, I kinda liked it when FR were not able to play and instead actually played FR games (they did that at one time for those that didn't know). I know TN has plenty of talent. I just don't know that 1)they are being coached UP and 2) Have they really bought into the system/schemes. Every week that goes by where you produce drives that produce NEGATIVE yardage, it can wear on a players confidence in the play calls, scheme.

Character of the VOLS will be tested from now until the last whistle of the last game. I love football. It was good to me while it lasted. To paraphrase Coach Harold Jones in the film "Radio". 'I love looking for a win on Friday nite and love waking up on Saturday when we got one.' lots of opposing team fans (me for one) are pulling for ya, VN. Some of us do have a damn heart.
 
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#2
#2
Good read! Thanks for the positive comments.

I agree 100% on your depiction of Debord. Sadly, Vol's fans knew this before the experiment began, and it sucks that it has come down to this (fans realizing before the HC). Whether Jones is back or not, Debord has to go, and I believe he will be gone in 2016.
 
#3
#3
And let me just add, if I may one other thing. The best hire OU ever made IMO was AD Joe Castiglione. He got Stoops on board. He hired a HS coach from Norman North HS, Sherri Coale, who took a WBB program at OU that was actually voted by the Board of Regents, to shut down (attendence was about 200 per gm before Coale, now avg is about 5-7,000). He brought Softball coach Patty Gasso (2 NC and many WCS appearances).
I'm not familiar with TN's AD, but I would say that over the past 3 years or so, IMO he may be the real culprit in all of this mess with VOL football. Just an observation.
 
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#5
#5
BudBarry said:
And let me just add, if I may one other thing. The best hire OU ever made IMO was AD Joe Castiglione. He got Stoops on board. He hired a HS coach from Norman North HS, Sherri Coale, who took a WBB program at OU that was actually voted by the Board of Regents, to shut down (attendence was about 200 per gm before Coale, now avg is about 5-7,000). He brought Softball coach Patty Gasso (2 NC and many WCS appearances).
I'm not familiar with TN's AD, but I would say that over the past 3 years or so, IMO he may be the real culprit in all of this mess with VOL football. Just an observation.
Click to expand...

You think we could borrow Joe C for a season or so?
 
#6
#6
BudBarry said:
I, along with some others, admire the tenacity and pure faithfulness of the Vol-Nation. It's not unusual for fans of other teams to continue watching games of a previous opponent (TN). Reading threads on this forum, especially after Saturday nights showing against the Hogs, I see some similiarities to things we have gone thru.

Just a small background, I coached HS fb back home in OK. I had the honor to play for 2 OK HS HOF coaches. I had the privilage to play small college ball and then I joined the service. I would like to throw something into the mix on the VN board.
It seems that your OC, Deboard, is all over the place on the play-calling. Not every play is meant to bust the long one. It's like playing chess. You have to set the opponent up to make a move that will pay dividends later on. Deboard is stuck in neutral it seems. I have read for the past couple of weeks or so how it seems TN is running vanilla offense, saving something for later on. I believe that's all of the offense TN has to offer. My judgement on our OC, Lincoln Riley is still out (I think he is doing much better each week), but what he said about how he calls the game struck me the other night as I watched Deboard in the Press Box. Riley was quoted as saying he prefers to call the game on the field so that 1) he has a better grasp of what is going on and 2) he can look the offense in the eye, give the play and make sure that his directives are understood. And if there is some uncertainty, he wants to be right there, eye to eye with the players to calm them down and answer any questions, one on one. Deboard looks like he's questioning his own play-calling. Just saying.

As for a coaching carousel. Every program that has had a successful coach step down, either on thier own or due to other circumstances, has had turmoil. NEB after Osborn....Solich, Callahan, Pelini. OKLA after Switzer...Gibbs, Schnellenberger, Blake. TEX after Royal...Akers, Williams, Mackovic, Mack Brown. You get the idea. We got lucky with Stoops. We still question his coaching at times, but I honestly think he listens at the end of the day. Will Jones? I don't think anybody knows. Stoops was wise enough to try with staff changes. If Jones doesn't at the end of this season, I don't think he has a job. I know that boosters can and sometimes will (although I think it's BS really) alter a program because of their own damn pride and ego.

Recruiting is a big part of a programs success and continued success. Coaching is much bigger IMHO. I'll take a roster of 3* recruits coached by the likes of a Bill Snyder at K-State that understand fundamentals and the game over 4-5* that are stagnant, as though they are still playing HS ball. A kid that steps onto a college field, in a top college program like TN, better understand that if they can contribute, then contribute. My own personal opinion, I kinda liked it when FR were not able to play and instead actually played FR games (they did that at one time for those that didn't know). I know TN has plenty of talent. I just don't know that 1)they are being coached UP and 2) Have they really bought into the system/schemes. Every week that goes by where you produce drives that produce NEGATIVE yardage, it can wear on a players confidence in the play calls, scheme.

Character of the VOLS will be tested from now until the last whistle of the last game. I love football. It was good to me while it lasted. To paraphrase Coach Harold Jones in the film "Radio". 'I love looking for a win on Friday nite and love waking up on Saturday when we got one.' lots of opposing team fans (me for one) are pulling for ya, VN. Some of us do have a damn heart.
Click to expand...

DeBord
 
#7
#7
BudBarry said:
And let me just add, if I may one other thing. The best hire OU ever made IMO was AD Joe Castiglione. He got Stoops on board. He hired a HS coach from Norman North HS, Sherri Coale, who took a WBB program at OU that was actually voted by the Board of Regents, to shut down (attendence was about 200 per gm before Coale, now avg is about 5-7,000). He brought Softball coach Patty Gasso (2 NC and many WCS appearances).
I'm not familiar with TN's AD, but I would say that over the past 3 years or so, IMO he may be the real culprit in all of this mess with VOL football. Just an observation.
Click to expand...

You're right, but we are already on our 2nd AD to blame for this mess.

1st AD started the problems by depleting all reserve funds for stadium renovations and then firing Coach Fulmer, hiring Kiffin, hiring Dooley.
 
#8
#8
Excellent points

A good OC will call plays to set something up later in the game. Ours goes back to what worked earlier, the first 10 times he called it. Think the defense has it figured out by now. We never run a different play in the same game from the same formation. But the next game, we will.

Case in point is going 5 wide - one game that's always a Dobbs draw. Saturday it was a pass.
The formation with Hurd and AK in the backfield. We only have one play designed for that formation for any one game. Why not have 3 plays? Or more so you keep the defense guessing.
 
#9
#9
nash101 said:
Excellent points

A good OC will call plays to set something up later in the game. Ours goes back to what worked earlier, the first 10 times he called it. Think the defense has it figured out by now. We never run a different play in the same game from the same formation. But the next game, we will.

Case in point is going 5 wide - one game that's always a Dobbs draw. Saturday it was a pass.
The formation with Hurd and AK in the backfield. We only have one play designed for that formation for any one game. Why not have 3 plays? Or more so you keep the defense guessing.
Click to expand...

I don't remember which drive it was, but at one point, TN had the O rolling and was getting back on the ball as it was being set for play. ARK players were still getting to the LOS and I told my friends THATS what a HUNH game can do for you. Then, like that it was back to a slow, methodical type O that went back to the same old, same old. It was puzzling to say the least.
 
#10
#10
I agree with the idea that its the A.D. more than CBJ. Does anyone here not believe that CBJ Wants to do well, he just does not seem to know the X's and O's. I honestly feel bad for the guy, he may be Pompous I have not earthly idea, I have never met him, but I am sure he wants to succeed, I wish someone would step in and help him, shake him up..... smack his jaw a few times and say 'HERE IS HOW ITS DONE BUDDY."

Thanks for writing OP
 
#11
#11
Debord can't make the 20yd throws accurately, much less the longer throws, don't know what's wrong with Mike Debord, you?
 
#12
#12
photovol said:
Debord can't make the 20yd throws accurately, much less the longer throws, don't know what's wrong with Mike Debord, you?
Click to expand...

If I had to make a calculated guess, I would say that the speed of the game in the SEC is something DeBoard isn't used to. In the BIG-10, it was common saying that CB's, SS's, FS's were nothing more than LB's that were a step faster than the fastest DL. I don't think he can draw up a play that isn't more or less smash-mouth FB, which is ok, but the game has changed. Deboard hasn't.
 
#13
#13
BudBarry said:
If I had to make a calculated guess, I would say that the speed of the game in the SEC is something DeBoard isn't used to. In the BIG-10, it was common saying that CB's, SS's, FS's were nothing more than LB's that were a step faster than the fastest DL. I don't think he can draw up a play that isn't more or less smash-mouth FB, which is ok, but the game has changed. Deboard hasn't.
Click to expand...
Honestly I think Debord has little to do with play calling. Every call Debord makes goes down to Butch and Butch can approve or veto the call. Most think Butch chose Debord bc he knew if he did he wouldnt have to worry about him having any control of the offense. What does Debord know about a spread offense? The entire schemes trash I miss the I formation days, the pro scheme.
 
#14
#14
BudBarry said:
And let me just add, if I may one other thing. The best hire OU ever made IMO was AD Joe Castiglione. He got Stoops on board. He hired a HS coach from Norman North HS, Sherri Coale, who took a WBB program at OU that was actually voted by the Board of Regents, to shut down (attendence was about 200 per gm before Coale, now avg is about 5-7,000). He brought Softball coach Patty Gasso (2 NC and many WCS appearances).
I'm not familiar with TN's AD, but I would say that over the past 3 years or so, IMO he may be the real culprit in all of this mess with VOL football. Just an observation.
Click to expand...

Very interesting couple of posts from a 'disinterested' third party--who has had more posts on our fan site than I have the past couple of years. Hmm, I smell a rat.
 
#15
#15
DonDiego said:
Very interesting couple of posts from a 'disinterested' third party--who has had more posts on our fan site than I have the past couple of years. Hmm, I smell a rat.
Click to expand...

By the way, we've had pretty decent basketball and softball programs ourselves over the past several years--lol. Maybe Ms. Coale has heard of our coach.
 
#17
#17
DonDiego said:
Very interesting couple of posts from a 'disinterested' third party--who has had more posts on our fan site than I have the past couple of years. Hmm, I smell a rat.
Click to expand...

Not a rat, just a football fan that has lived in TN. I had to move (PCS) to another post out of state. My wife is still in the military as am I (I left teaching and coaching behind to go back into the military, better pay and benefits ya know) and she still lives in TN as do my kids. We are both born and raised okies and although we are ardent OU fans, we really like TN and are all-around NCAA football fans. Nothing to hide here. Just saying we have lived the nightmare that VOL fans are experiencing with our own program we support.
 
#18
#18
Berry4Heisman14 said:
Honestly I think Debord has little to do with play calling. Every call Debord makes goes down to Butch and Butch can approve or veto the call./QUOTE]

I'm not going to pretend that I know exactly how the in game decisions are made as I'm not on the sidelines with a headset on. But, if you've been paying attention, the very same coaching issues we are witnessing now we're going on before Debord was thought of at Tennessee. If I've said it once I've said it a hundred times; Butch is the common link. Is he the sole problem? No. But right now he's looking like a liability on game days.
Click to expand...
 
#19
#19
BudBarry said:
Not a rat, just a football fan that has lived in TN. I had to move (PCS) to another post out of state. My wife is still in the military as am I (I left teaching and coaching behind to go back into the military, better pay and benefits ya know) and she still lives in TN as do my kids. We are both born and raised okies and although we are ardent OU fans, we really like TN and are all-around NCAA football fans. Nothing to hide here. Just saying we have lived the nightmare that VOL fans are experiencing with our own program we support.
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It's just a little silly, not to mention somewhat suspicious, that an outsider would jump on the 'must be the AD' bandwagon.

Three or four weeks ago, Butch was the darling of the SEC. Our AD hired Rick Barnes--well respected, Dave Serrano--well thought of prior to his arrival, etc., etc. How does your AD hiring a female HS basketball coach who happened to work out relate?

The worm always turns. In a year or two or three, Stoops will screw up, your ladies basketball coach will lose too many, and your AD will be under the gun.

We've been at this awhile--we'll work it all out.
 
#20
#20
DonDiego said:
By the way, we've had pretty decent basketball and softball programs ourselves over the past several years--lol. Maybe Ms. Coale has heard of our coach.
Click to expand...

Of course, she's a legend. and CHW is doing a good job.
My point about the AD was AD's have a big influence of a programs' success or non-success, just as much as the coach. I thought Kelvin Sampson was an ok hire at OU, but I think bringing in Lon Kruger (HOF coach IMO and Class Act) was and has been the best for the BB program. I think Castiglione missed on that one, but overall, I'm very happy with his hires to this point. I think Barnes was and is a good hire for TN, just don't know quite yet how he will do, but there is every reason to believe he will do fine in the SEC. He's a good coach.
 
#21
#21
DonDiego said:
It's just a little silly, not to mention somewhat suspicious, that an outsider would jump on the 'must be the AD' bandwagon.

Three or four weeks ago, Butch was the darling of the SEC. Our AD hired Rick Barnes--well respected, Dave Serrano--well thought of prior to his arrival, etc., etc. How does your AD hiring a female HS basketball coach who happened to work out relate?

The worm always turns. In a year or two or three, Stoops will screw up, your ladies basketball coach will lose too many, and your AD will be under the gun.

We've been at this awhile--we'll work it all out.
Click to expand...

Joan Cronin hired Serrano
 
#22
#22
DonDiego said:
It's just a little silly, not to mention somewhat suspicious, that an outsider would jump on the 'must be the AD' bandwagon.

Three or four weeks ago, Butch was the darling of the SEC. Our AD hired Rick Barnes--well respected, Dave Serrano--well thought of prior to his arrival, etc., etc. How does your AD hiring a female HS basketball coach who happened to work out relate?

The worm always turns. In a year or two or three, Stoops will screw up, your ladies basketball coach will lose too many, and your AD will be under the gun.

We've been at this awhile--we'll work it all out.[/QUOTE]

Great that you will work it out. In the meantime, your boosters will become less and less involved, your football program will be set back a few years and things will go to s*** in a NY minute. Look at NEB. They still haven't recovered. And they had AD change as well. Look at Texas' situation. How did hiring a HS coach from Norman North work out? 2 FF appearances and has had her team in the tournament (if memory serves me right) every year for the past 17 except 2 or 3. Not bad considering the program was DOA.

I don't think with the changes in the FB landscape that you have much time to work it out. It's easy to lay blame at the foot of the coach (he gets paid a hefty check). But it was your AD/AD's that were flying to hell and back, trying to woo any coach that had a pulse and would listen to the pitch. To me, that's on your AD, not Jones. Jones took the offer. He didn't offer it to himself.
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#23
#23
My best friend of 16 years is a die hard OU fan. I took him to the game and he had the time of his life. Of course, he roots for the vols when they play just like I root for the sooners when they play. I have been to Norman and I love the tradition. I'll always be a VFL but there is some love for the Sooners cause of him. Not to mention, the OU faithful are just such a fantastic fan base. I had an amazing time in Norman, and the fans even here in K town were great. Just an awesome program and rich tradition that makes college football so great. Boomer damn Sooner. I would love to see them win out. GBO
 
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#24
#24
BudBarry said:
DonDiego said:
It's just a little silly, not to mention somewhat suspicious, that an outsider would jump on the 'must be the AD' bandwagon.

Three or four weeks ago, Butch was the darling of the SEC. Our AD hired Rick Barnes--well respected, Dave Serrano--well thought of prior to his arrival, etc., etc. How does your AD hiring a female HS basketball coach who happened to work out relate?

The worm always turns. In a year or two or three, Stoops will screw up, your ladies basketball coach will lose too many, and your AD will be under the gun.

We've been at this awhile--we'll work it all out.[/QUOTE]

Great that you will work it out. In the meantime, your boosters will become less and less involved, your football program will be set back a few years and things will go to s*** in a NY minute. Look at NEB. They still haven't recovered. And they had AD change as well. Look at Texas' situation. How did hiring a HS coach from Norman North work out? 2 FF appearances and has had her team in the tournament (if memory serves me right) every year for the past 17 except 2 or 3. Not bad considering the program was DOA.

I don't think with the changes in the FB landscape that you have much time to work it out. It's easy to lay blame at the foot of the coach (he gets paid a hefty check). But it was your AD/AD's that were flying to hell and back, trying to woo any coach that had a pulse and would listen to the pitch. To me, that's on your AD, not Jones. Jones took the offer. He didn't offer it to himself.
Click to expand...

I think Rush Limbaugh used to call them 'seminar callers'. I would say 'seminar posters'.
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