Can O-line problems be fixed?

[photovol]

Josh Dobbs wants to know if the Oline problems can be fixed:crazy:

 

[discontent523]

I said this in another thread but didn't the blocking scheme look different than last year,no pin and pull,no getting guards out in space on the second level of the d,I mean you would see Thomas kick out on pass pro last year and none of that in the game. I mean am I seeing it wrong, I admit I had a few drinks by the end of the of the first lol.

 

[volfox72]

I said this in another thread but didn't the blocking scheme look different than last year,no pin and pull,no getting guards out in space on the second level of the d,I mean you would see Thomas kick out on pass pro last year and none of that in the game. I mean am I seeing it wrong, I admit I had a few drinks by the end of the of the first lol.

I noticed this as well. Take a look at last years opener against Bowling Green, we had so many pulling guards and centers, misdirection, etc. For whatever reason this game we didn't do that. Perhaps we tried to be vanila in our blocking scheme, but I don't get why we don't simply run our offense as we did last year as it was extremely effective.

 

[ChattaTNVol]

The simple solution for our OLine is for them to show up to the game next time - preferably not stoned or otherwise inebriated. Most have a lot of experience. Richmond is the only new guy and I've not heard a lot of complaining about him. The others have been together in the trenches for a while. Presumably, they're stronger, faster, smarter, more mature than last year. Just show up. Problem fixed.

(All data from UTSports - Injuries based on my best recollection consistent with participation reports)

9/15/15 BGSU @ Nashville (W-59-30)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Blair, Hall, Mosley, Crowder, Raulerson, Jones
Sacks Allowed (yards) 1 (6)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 4 (9)
Rushing ypa 6.2
Pass Completion % 65.2%

9/12/15 OU @ Neyland (L 31-24)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Mosley, Crowder
Sacks Allowed (yards) 3 (30)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 5 (19)
Rushing ypa 2.9
Pass Completion % 41.9%

9/19/15 WC @ Neyland (W 55-10)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Blair, Hall, Mosley, Crowder, Raulerson, Jones, Edwards
Sacks Allowed (yards) 2 (16)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 2 (10)
Rushing ypa 4.3
Pass Completion % 72.4%

9/26/15 FL @ Gainsville (L 28-27)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Crowder
Sacks Allowed (yards) 3 (22)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 7 (18)
Rushing ypa 5.0
Pass Completion % 63.2%

10/3/15 AR @ Neyland (L 24-20)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Mosley, Crowder,Jones
Sacks Allowed (yards) 1 (8)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 6 (15)
Rushing ypa 4.0
Pass Completion % 54.1%

10/10/15 GA @ Neyland (W 38-31)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Crowder
RG Wiesman
RT Thomas
Participated: Hall, Mosley, Jones
Injured: Kendrick
Sacks Allowed (yards) 1 (7)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 6 (13)
Rushing ypa 4.3
Pass Completion % 59.5%

10/24/15 AL @ Tuscaloosa (L 19-14)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Wiesman
C Thomas
RG Jones
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley
Injured: Kendrick, Robertson, Crowder
Sacks Allowed (yards) 5 (38)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 3 (6)
Rushing ypa 3.4
Pass Completion % 59.1%

10/31/15 KY @ Lexington (W 52-21)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley, Crowder, Raulerson, Jones, Edwards
Injured: Kendrick
Sacks Allowed (yards) 1 (7)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 7 (17)
Rushing ypa 5.8
Pass Completion % 61.5%

11/7/15 SC @ Neyland (W 27-24)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Crowder
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley, Jones
Injured: Kendrick, Robertson
Sacks Allowed (yards) 2 (9)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 4 (11)
Rushing ypa 3.7
Pass Completion % 58.8%

11/14/15 NT @ Neyland (W 24-0)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Crowder
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley, Raulerson, Jones
Injured: Kendrick, Robertson
Sacks Allowed (yards) 2 (13)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 5 (9)
Rushing ypa 4.9
Pass Completion % 64.3%

11/21/15 MO @ Columbia (W 19-8)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley
Injured: Kendrick, Crowder
Sacks Allowed (yards) 0 (0)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 10 (23)
Rushing ypa 4.9
Pass Completion % 64.0%

11/28/15 VD @ Neyland (W 53-28)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Hall, Mosley, Crowder, Raulerson, Jones, Edwards, Kendrick
Sacks Allowed (yards) 0 (0)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 5 (8)
Rushing ypa 6.4
Pass Completion % 60.0%

1/1/16 NW @ Tampa (W 45-6)
Starting
LT Kerbyson
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Hall
Participated: Blair, Mosley, Crowder, Kendrick
Sacks Allowed (yards) 2 (17)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 4 (11)
Rushing ypa 4.3
Pass Completion % 53.3%

9/1/16 AS @ Neyland (W 20-13)
Starting
LT Richmond
LG Robertson
C Thomas
RG Wiesman
RT Kendrick
Participated: Mosley
Sacks Allowed (yards) 2 (19)
TFLs Allowed - sacks (yards) 3 (3)
Rushing ypa 3.0
Pass Completion % 55.2%

 

[txbo]

It wasn't just the OL. Hurd gave up on several blocks.

 

[IMALLVOL22]

No we have a bunch of mommy's boys playing on the o-line. It's going to be a long season. If the coaches don't correct this in practice. You start practice with no starters. You have to earn it in practice. I want an offensive lineman to put somebody on their A**. If they do that then deserve to start on Saturday. Go Vols!

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Can O-line problems be fixed?

Well, in my mind, we've had the same problems since we were starting five freshman.

My solution: bring back Sam Pittman. He belongs on the BSiA.

 

[TN Outlaw]

I can get onboard with App D line being smaller but faster? The grown azz men in the SEC are bigger, stronger, more talented, and every bit as fast or faster than those small guys App had.

There was something off with our Oline but I can't agree with that excuse.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Man, 2407, you have honed in on the million-dollar question. I think this is THE key question of Week 1.

Sorry, I don't know the answer. But a couple of thoughts:

1. Is it possible the team's spacing is a little off? Throughout the game, it seemed to me they were lining up a bit more spread than last year. Not hugely, talking a few inches per gap. Now, I didn't have a dang tape measure out or anything, so I could be dead wrong. Just seemed that way. Sometimes, OLines seem to succeed and fail based on really fine-tuned things like this, or pad height, or first step, or other nuances that seem minor to outsiders. So could that be the problem, and could fixing it be effective in improving their protection? I'd love to get the chance to ask DeBord or Mahoney that.

2. Maybe the chemistry is off with this line-up. Maybe getting Chance Hall back is like a key fitting into a lock? IDK. But that does beg the question: how much longer will we be without Chance's services?

Thanks again, 2407, for honing in on THE question of Week 1.

Go Vols!

 

[MWAVolfan]

No one is going to duplicate what Appy's D did to our OL unless they are undersized and very quick. I know, sounds crazy.

Undersized Appy took the field with only one DL advantage: quickness. They multiplied that advantage by causing us to play an extra half-second slower.

They made us slower by creating mental hesitation along our line by shifting right before the snap. I think that's why Coleman had an especially poor-looking game, if (and I believe it is) his responsibility is to call out the blocking assignments. Appy forced our linemen to be constantly processing changing information right up to the snap of the ball. That's a much different problem than facing Shoop's D in practice, where the pieces are stable in front of you, and your focus is on reading and communicating in reaction to what they do after the snap.

Great sports always have a roshambo (rock-paper-scissors) dimension. There's always something that can beat or negate another team's strength. In O-line play you could make a case that technique negates size, size negates speed, speed negates technique. Appy brought paper to face our rock, as much against our scheme as in individual matchups. Our offense doesn't require linemen to hold their blocks long, but it does require them to block specific defenders on time.

To appreciate their speed, how many times did Appy's nose tackle--NOSE TACKLE!--make plays on the edges, far from the interior? They also maximized their smallness by forcing our linemen to block them in space. Think chasing rats in an empty room--the larger the room the greater the advantage of being small and quick.

I don't think our O-line was exposed Thursday night, because I don't think we'll face another team that's schemed and manned to do what Appy State does. If Appy faces a team fronted by large, slow bulldozers committed to a zone blocking scheme, they will be dominated, regardless of how quick or shifty they are.

Credit Appy State for maximizing their disadvantages against superior talent. We'll send far more players to the next level, but they'll recruit the quickest undersized linemen that have no shot in the SEC and ride 'em to 9, 10 sure wins year-after-year.

Our line outweighed their line by 50 lbs average. When you have an advantage like that you do not "block" or "defend" the opposing line, instead you go on offense. We should have been blowing huge holes in the line and Hurd should have run for 300 yards. Instead our O-line was on defense. Like you said trying to chase rats. And how many times did Hurd get tripped up by a shoestring tackle? IT was pathetic. We didnt use our size to the advantage. Hurd could have plowed over ANY of their defenders. There should have been injured Apply State defenders laying all over the field. Instead we looked very poorly coached.

Its not like UT was completely ignorant of who they were playing.

Good teams (champion teams) have a plan for everything.... EVERYTHING. We did not have a plan, we simply survived, barely.

 

[GBOTango]

I think I'll wait till after the VT game before I push the red panick button, but I am trying to find the launch codes.

 

[Volfanatic 79]

This is the same line that enabled us to outrush FL, GA, and AL last year on our way to the second most rushing yards in school history. Relax guys. We are going to be fine!

This × 1000. I admit we didnt play well Thursday, but to say after one game that the oline has regressed to 2014 is crazy. We will be fine, staff will fix the problems by sec play.

 

[Vol737]

This is the same line that enabled us to outrush FL, GA, and AL last year on our way to the second most rushing yards in school history. Relax guys. We are going to be fine!

No it's not. Richmond is new and trying to get it figured out. Jack Jones and Chance Hall anchored that right side most of the season. JJ didn't play and Chance Hall is hurt. Not having those guys showed the other night and as soon as Chance is healthy, Butch would be best advised to return them to their rightful spot. This O Line is very different from where we ended the season last year.

 

[McDad]

On one of the ESPN radio shows today (idk which one I was driving about 2 hours from home), the host was discussing the UT game with the SEC reporter. The host then asked the in house studio guy, who played Oline in the NFL for 12 years if UT's Oline is a quick fix. His assessment was App state D line played with their pads very low and drove the line back with leverage. His experience is when the d line does that, it causes the Oline to play a half second slow. (Kinda in line with a previous poster in this thread). He further stated if UT cannot fix that issue, we will see all d lines use the same tactics.

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Still does not explain why a smaller (maybe a little faster?) def. seemed to just do as they pleased all night long. If in fact, our off.line is good enough to " win the east".

Actually that explains it to a T. This offense is based on the read option which is misdirection. So what happens when you take one of those elements away (the qb run) you play small defensive lineman, shoot the gaps and tee off on the backs.

 

[Remy]

On one of the ESPN radio shows today (idk which one I was driving about 2 hours from home), the host was discussing the UT game with the SEC reporter. The host then asked the in house studio guy, who played Oline in the NFL for 12 years if UT's Oline is a quick fix. His assessment was App state D line played with their pads very low and drove the line back with leverage. His experience is when the d line does that, it causes the Oline to play a half second slow. (Kinda in line with a previous poster in this thread). He further stated if UT cannot fix that issue, we will see all d lines use the same tactics.

As poorly as our OL played they can expect week in and week out to see D's executing at the start the exact same schemes and techniques Crampalation State used. Our guys will see it until they demonstrate they can destroy it. Mahoney and staff need to fix it NOW.

 

[jbr82]

Alot of the problems had to do with how limited the play calling was. Dobbs was handcuffed from running to prevent injury that was obvious. So Appalachian state had a huge advantage in that all they had to do was key in on the backs. Do you remember what this offense was like when Worley was running it? Thats what happened Thursday, its going to be fine.

true but the OL still played like care bears

 

[Volsfaninva917]

true but the OL still played like care bears

They run zone block technique, they're not supposed to be flying off the line burying people.

 

[Biopsyman]

Mahoney has now had 4 years...it's not working

 

[orangebloodgmc]

true but the OL still played like care bears

Need Jack Jones in there somewhere.

 

[TennMan101]

I believe motivating our OL to play better will be rather easy after some of them are forced to watch their performance against App State as a group this week on film. Some of those guys played so poorly "soft" does not begin to describe it. Anybody can confront and most likely will run into somebody along the way that is just a better player than they are, but as an OL, you physically confront those guys every play even if they are better. We had a center and two OGs that got punked this past Thursday night and appeared like they didn't want any more and that was the 1st quarter and their performance went downhill from there!!! You owe it to your teammates and yourself not to allow that to happen again if you have ANY personal pride and self respect. I suspect we'll see MUCH improved OL play or not hear much about 2 or 3 guys that were starters against App State, just cannot have guys quit on the team and themselves like that in football IMO.

I'm not going to mention any names, but one offensive lineman got punked the whole game. I have always considered him non-sec material and he once again proved it to me last Thursday night.

 

[TAF]

I'm not going to mention any names, but one offensive lineman got punked the whole game. I have always considered him non-sec material and he once again proved it to me last Thursday night.

Cooler English Muffin?

 

[tennrich1]

Oh my aching back. Of course the OLine can be fixed!

 

[VolZen]

No it's not. Richmond is new and trying to get it figured out. Jack Jones and Chance Hall anchored that right side most of the season. JJ didn't play and Chance Hall is hurt. Not having those guys showed the other night and as soon as Chance is healthy, Butch would be best advised to return them to their rightful spot. This O Line is very different from where we ended the season last year.

Hall and Jones didn't even see the field much at all until Georgia last year. The problems were on the interior against Appy anyway, mostly Thomas, Robertson and Weisman our most experienced veterans. Tackle play was pretty good between Kendrick and Richmond where the inexperience is.

Point is these guys have played a good bit of football and I know they are better than what we saw against Appy. I really wish our fans would quit acting like idiots over one poor performance.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Can it be fixed? You mean like when we get our starters back?