Butch has lost even the apologists

#126
#126
87&91ALUM said:
First, I am sick and tired of the "sink the ship" folks because I went through Fulmer's demise. Yes, there are discipline, motivation, coordination problems however when this team is in sync they play well (last quarter of most games, last couple years). I don't have an answer but, I know a change in head coach means 2-3 more years of brick by brick or whatever coachspeak from someone else and the boo birds will be sitting in their boo houses waiting to boo again. All this misery, like this thread, had to be conjured up by a Florida or Vandy fan. A real Vol fan would support the program and players until the season was lost 5-7 or something like that, and then pull the trigger. And spend the money to get a Mullen, Sarkasian, Richt, Norvell, Miles, Venables, etc.
Click to expand...

This is not a binary situation. You can:

1. Be a complete VOL homer, a VFL, bleed orange, cheer on the team, soar with every win and die a little with every loss, and

2. Think that CBJ is a good guy, tried his best, and did succeed in raising the UT program from the Dooley ashes, and

3. Yet STILL think that CBJ is in over his head and that we need a new coach - a MAJOR program coach who can build on what CBJ has done and get us back to Atlanta.

Negavol, Pumper, whatever. Give it a rest. IMHO we need to move on, wish CBJ the best, and hire a coach capable of taking us to Atlanta and beyond.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#127
#127
Maybe this would make a good new thread but, since most of the gossip and rumors on VN are about a coaching change, are there any former coaches or players with strong UT ties that would be acceptable as our next coaching staff? Sanders, Cutcliffe, Luke, Roper, Dale Jones, John Chavis, T Martin, others?
 
#128
#128
I like Butch on a personal level, but he very well may not be the guy. We've looked like a poorly coached team this year. However, there are two things I genuinely don't understand that I hear all the time from CBJ critics:

1) "This is year 5! How can we be this bad in year 5?"

Why is this surprising to you? It's college football. Players are here for a period of 4 years. When you replace your 3.5-year starter at QB, one of the best in college football, a drop-off is to be expected. Look at Florida the season after Tebow (lost 5 games) or Texas after Vince (lost 3 games) [disclaimer: not saying Dobbs was on their level]. So, while many are saying, "It's year 5; this regression is unacceptable," maybe a more accurate view would be, "It's year 5 (first year post-Dobbs), this regression is expected."

It's as if the critics are ignoring the cyclical nature of college football and expecting a linear progression where every season is better than the previous one. That's not how any of this works. Heck, everyone said last year was THE year for a reason. And it actually was, before the 11th plague of Moses hit the locker room.


2) "We can keep Butch if and only if we finish 9-3."

Besides this being incredibly unlikely, it's a classic case of moving the goalposts. What's more, you're moving the goalposts further away from someone who's coming up short of the already established goalposts. Before the season, almost everyone agreed 8-4 was the "par" expectation. Now that we've had a terrible start, why change that expectation?

It's like your boss telling you you must sell 1,000 widgets this year or you're fired. Then, when half the year is over and you've only sold 200, he informs you that you actually need to sell 1,500. Why? I may not reach the expectation, based on my terrible start, but let me fail or succeed fairly and honestly.

If Butch goes 8-4, that means he will have won 5 of the last 7 (with one loss @ Bama), and given us a chance to win a bowl game and reach 9 wins for the third straight year. Holding him to a more stringent standard than generally agreed upon before the season reveals in critics either mid-season emotionalism (those who didn't consider what 4 losses actually feel like), personal animus (those who let press-conference Butchisms ruin their day), or prioritization of aesthetics (those who reject every moral victory and accept every moral defeat).



I understand we've looked awful, but these two commonly held views on VN really don't seem reasonable to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#129
#129
Vol@PennState said:
Besides this being incredibly unlikely, it's a classic case of moving the goalposts. What's more, you're moving the goalposts further away from someone who's coming up short of the already established goalposts. Before the season, almost everyone agreed 8-4 was the "par" expectation. Now that we've had a terrible start, why change that expectation?
Click to expand...

Those preseason 8-4/7-5 predictions were based not only on CBJ's poor game-day coaching, and proven lack of player development, but also on assumptions about our opponents.

No one, could have predicted that Florida was going to have 9 players suspended, and miss a cupcake game and a week of practice due to a hurricane. No one could have predicted that LSU was going to have offensive and defensive lines that played so poorly, that Troy beat them.

That's not the goal post moving, that's the football landscape changing in Butch's favor, and he's already missed one opportunity to take advantage of the situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#131
#131
Yes Vol@penn State. I've got more of those concerns. I'm not a coach but, football is a game of ifs and buts, luck, injuries, and a bunch of other factors. I agree that we've seen some poor play, bad decisions, and lucky to be 3-2. Butch and the players are stressed from all the negative media/social media. Maybe, I hope, this two week break is the medicine the Vols need to put together a big win this weekend. I support our players, coaches, and University and know they understand this is a wins vs losses business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#132
#132
If we took a poll of the persons on VN who want coach Jones replaced with Gruden or Kelly et al I would guess that most are under 30 years old. The people who support Jones are people that have gone through good and bad times with the likes of coaches Dickey, Battle, Majors, and Fulmer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#133
#133
vols72 said:
I was so excited for this season to start. Then while watching the GT game I looked at my wife and told her this team want beat many games at all. I just don't get it,it doesn't even look like we practice at all. It's year 5 and we look worse than year 1. I understand we lost some players but come on there has been no improvement what so ever
Click to expand...

They practice against themselves and some wear green jerseys. Our cornerbacks ain't worth sh*t playing man and our receivers, being young, don't have a clue come real game time what it takes to get separation. In all this the coaches aren't making evaluations as to who will perform better on the field. At best they are guessing. Until recently a lot of teams scheduled a cupcake or two up front to get a better understanding of who can play in the remaining games. In year 5 we should be well beyond the point we find ourselves in with good depth and with starters who know how to give a lick in this conference. It starts on the LOS. You win the trench battles the rest will fall in place. If UT is soft it's both the players and coaches fault BUT I've heard some say our OL has to do some type of blocking that puts them at a disadvantage. Need to get away from that silly B.Kelly scheme and play some downhill smash-mouth football and mix in some spread just to keep opposing D's guessing. We're being outguessed before the snap and we have a high paid coach that can't fiqure some of the more simpler things out? It's very,very, frustrating watching this current team play. CBJ does it backwards. He insists on his way, execution wise, when many times it's better to tweak the scheme to fit the playmakers. I actually learned that today reading about M.Stafford and you know who? JB Cooter that's who. 2nd youngest OC in the NFL. Tn. born and raised. He'd coach circles around Lyle and players love the guy. One way or the other this offense is gonna change.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#134
#134
tallyho said:
If we took a poll of the persons on VN who want coach Jones replaced with Gruden or Kelly et al I would guess that most are under 30 years old. The people who support Jones are people that have gone through good and bad times with the likes of coaches Dickey, Battle, Majors, and Fulmer.
Click to expand...

I believe your assumption is dead wrong and you might be unpleasantly surprised how many fans in their 40s and 50s want a change at HC of our program. Jones has had enough time to prove that he will not win to the levels of Dickey, Majors, and Fulmer. Even Battle was 31-5 his first 3 seasons. All four of these coaches you mention took UT to major bowls. Jones, like Dooley and Kiffin, have played in minor bowls only. Jones should be 4-1 against Florida. We know that record is reversed. He's 2-2 against Vanderbilt for goodness sake. His losses to Bama last year and Georgia this year are just sad to see at such a mecca as Neyland Stadium. If things keep going fowl the next two games but he survives firing, Jones may be the first U.T. coach with a football team playing both the Commodores and Kentucky Wildcats in the same season as an underdog in sports betting history. What else are we supposed to be patient about? We occasionally have guest speakers at our church. One such speaker who is in his 80s and a graduate of Alabama showed up last fall to speak in all U.T. orange. He explained that our pastor had a friendly wager made years ago that if Tennessee beat Alabama, he would have to wear orange at our church. However, given the way things were going in the once proud rivalry he didn't think he would live long enough to see his Tide lose again to the Vols.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#136
#136
Plan " B " in the hiring of Coach Butch Jones was always (according to the sports writers immediately following the hiring of Coach Jones) for a 3-5 year rebuilding process, re-evaluating the program, & going forward with a " New Plan " if the program was not Competitive with the upper tier of the SEC. The talent has improved & we should be more competitive. After the Alabama game the people with deep pockets will depend on a new Athletic Director to find a new coach who can " Keep " the talent in place & use his own reputation & personality to improve this recruiting cycle if we lose to SC & the crimson turds. They know the appeal of the job will suffer if the empty seats are prevalent to the TV cameras at the start of the Southern Miss game; naming an interim coach & expediting a search for a new head coach would fill those seats for recruits, prospective new coach & SEC fans to see !!! Our present coach has done a lot to bring in the talent & believes in his own coaching ability & system & if he pulls off a miracle & remains as head coach of the Vols I will support him !!! Without booing or hating on our own team & it's current staff any further, I believe that 18,000 fans in a 102,000 seat stadium would be a better signal for action by the Athletic Director & Administration should we get blown out by SC & the crimson turds & that prospect will cause action shortly after the return from Albania on Oct. 22nd. They'll let the interim get his feet wet & risk a loss to the " Mildcats ". I've been here before; I sat in Neyland Stadium & suffered the losses to North Texas State, Rugters, Wyoming, Vandy & Ky not to mention close calls to Troy, Appy State & U Mass & it's probably going to get worse this year if things don't change quickly !!! Things will change one way or another, but I fear " Team 122 " will be the only beneficiaries of this change !!!! Please make me wrong " Team 121 "; GO VOLS !!!!
 
Last edited:
#137
#137
I was reading an article on Chip Kelly..... second only to Gruden amongst the wet dreamers....and ran across this;

He didn’t, in more ways than that. His offense didn’t work in the NFL and he refused to adapt. (His offense played at a breakneck Madden-like speed, something that wasn’t sustainable to a defense that was horrible anyway.) His two biggest failings were his inability to figure out which players would fit in his own system and then his inability to adapt to the players he did have. The whole thing was bizarre: Kelly was shopping for players in a system he lives and breathes and still came back with the wrong groceries. And that’s what did Kelly in.

Quite ironic...... wouldn't you say
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#139
#139
VolInNW said:
This is not a binary situation. You can:

1. Be a complete VOL homer, a VFL, bleed orange, cheer on the team, soar with every win and die a little with every loss, and

2. Think that CBJ is a good guy, tried his best, and did succeed in raising the UT program from the Dooley ashes, and

3. Yet STILL think that CBJ is in over his head and that we need a new coach - a MAJOR program coach who can build on what CBJ has done and get us back to Atlanta.

Negavol, Pumper, whatever. Give it a rest. IMHO we need to move on, wish CBJ the best, and hire a coach capable of taking us to Atlanta and beyond.
Click to expand...

Why is this so hard to grasp,for alot of people?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top