Brice: AD down Fulmer and Blackburn, but...

[82_VOL_83]

disagree. i can count on one hand how many times we beat GA and FL in the same year since divisional play started, so stating that that's the baseline isn't true, or fair. he's reached the baseline already. the question is can he do more than that?

and it most certainly is the goal, or at least it should be. coming back now and saying it's not that big a deal is moving the goal posts, and insinuates that if you don't win the SEC, then all bets are off, which isn't true, or fair either.

i've not been bashful in my criticisms of Butch Jones, and i think in a lot of arenas regarding that topic, you and i think similarly. if left up to me, and circumstances were a little different, i'd of probably handed him his papers after the Vandy game.

but this, this just reeks of "i don't like the guy, and he'll never get credit, no matter what". let's say he does win the East, this year. in my estimation that would be a gross over achievement in 2017. would we then take that and say "yeah, but he should have last year or the year before, he's still garbage"?

it's this part of the debate that gives credence to the notion that there are those that root for his failure.

Jake, why do you insist on bringing sensibility to VN? You know it doesn't fit the agenda.

 

[tvolsfan]

And replace him with who?

Some of you want a replacement but when you throw out names they are either folks that don't want to coach (Gruden) or other coaches that are NOT winning their conferences at other schools.

When does it become not sane to replace a coach?

If team 121 has a really great year, wins the SEC goes to the playoffs or one of the big games, finishes in the top 10 - do you let the coach walk then - just because some folks on message boards and in the media don't like him?

Get real. You extend and give a raise to keep him.

If he wins the SEC, you absolutely reward him. That would be a real achievement. If he goes 9-3, loses the SEC championship, and threatens to bolt for Illinois unless you add 5 million dollars to his buyout, you wish him well and help him pack.

 

[82_VOL_83]

The only way UT will be in contention for the East/SEC title is to have a crackerjack staff of recruiter and coaches. We are at a recruiting disadvantage because of the home state. Florida and Georgia (and Louisiana) have natural advantages--and bama because it wins. Fulmer really got our recruiting rolling for several years, because we were winning and beating georgia regularly and the west was down. It was pretty much us and Florida for a stretch in the 1990s, early 2000s. One of the reasons I continue to be optimistic is that Jones can recruit, even if we were a bit down this year.

What's this we **** carpetbagger?

 

[jakez4ut]

If he wins the SEC, you absolutely reward him. That would be a real achievement. If he goes 9-3, loses the SEC championship, and threatens to bolt for Illinois unless you add 5 million dollars to his buyout, you wish him well and help him pack.

Kind of an extreme scenario, but if that happened, I think I'd agree with you.

 

[tvolsfan]

Kind of an extreme scenario, but if that happened, I think I'd agree with you.

It's not too far from Florida's season this past year, but I agree it's a relatively unlikely scenario.

 

[jakez4ut]

Jake, why do you insist on bringing sensibility to VN? You know it doesn't fit the agenda.

His follow up post made a lot more sense.

I don't like CBJ but I recognize what he's done and what our current situation is, and how that's all compared relatively to both the previous 5 years, and the previous 15 before that.

Bottom line, it's not terrible right now, but neither is it where it should be headed in to year 5 with how he's recruited etc...

Jones ' window is closing. It's up to him if it closes or gets flung open again.

 

[VolRoger]

Where does his salary currently stack up as compared to other SEC coaches?

He was 7th in 2016 but that was before Miles was canned. He's likely 6th now. However, the difference between Jones and Freeze at 3rd is around 500k. Not much different. I think he's getting paid what he should in the SEC. I agree with no raise or extension until he wins something more than a minor bowl that gets him to 9 wins.

 

[jakez4ut]

It's not too far from Florida's season this past year, but I agree it's a relatively unlikely scenario.

It's the ultimatum I don't think is realistic.

I could totally see us backing in to ATL this year....lol

 

[BeardedVol]

It also depends if other schools come calling. It's not like Butch is in the upper echelon of coach's salaries in the country and wouldn't be hard for many programs to buy his contract out of they want him badly enough. If they win the east next year, I could see Butch's agent using interest from other schools as leverage to garner a hefty raise.

If Butch has another 8-4 season, and caps it off with another minor bowl win, what leverage would he have to ask for a raise?

Any school capable of paying more than he is getting paid currently, isn't going to shell out that kind of cash to a coach whose best conference record in the five year stretch at his previous job is 5-3, and he's not going to willingly walk away from $4.1 million a year with no replacement job, because he didn't get a $400,000 raise.

 

[KBVol]

He was 7th in 2016 but that was before Miles was canned. He's likely 6th now. However, the difference between Jones and Freeze at 3rd is around 500k. Not much different. I think he's getting paid what he should in the SEC. I agree with no raise or extension until he wins something more than a minor bowl that gets him to 9 wins.

According to an article in The Tennessean dated 10/26/2016, Jones was 9th in the SEC if Miles' salary was still included....so he's 8th at best considering he likely makes more now than the LSU coach (Oregeron) who was said to be making $3-4mm once hired. Here's the list....

SEC FOOTBALL COACH SALARIES
(Total pay, including university and non-university pay, for FBS coaches)
1. Nick Saban (Alabama): $6,939,395
2. Kevin Sumlin (Texas A&M): $5,000,000
3. Gus Malzahn (Auburn): $4,729,500
4. Hugh Freeze (Ole Miss): $4,703,500
5. Les Miles (LSU): $4,385,567*
6. Jim McElwain (Florida): $4,268,325
7. Dan Mullen (Mississippi St.): $4,200,000
8. Bret Bielema (Arkansas): $4,145,000
9. Butch Jones (Tennessee): $4,110,000
10. Kirby Smart (Georgia): $3,753,600
11. Mark Stoops (Kentucky): $3,513,600
12. Will Muschamp (South Carolina): $3,002,500
13. Derek Mason (Vanderbilt): $2,556,877**
14. Barry Odom (Missouri): $2,350,000

 

[walkenvol]

Wow - some (most) of those guys are hugely overpaid!

 

[Brave Volunteer]

If Butch has another 8-4 season, and caps it off with another minor bowl win, what leverage would he have to ask for a raise?

Any school capable of paying more than he is getting paid currently, isn't going to shell out that kind of cash to a coach whose best conference record in the five year stretch at his previous job is 5-3, and he's not going to willingly walk away from $4.1 million a year with no replacement job, because he didn't get a $400,000 raise.

He wouldn't. But I'm not talking about having an 8-4 season. I'm talking about winning the East. The argument was whether or not Jones would deserve a raise/extension for winning the East. I say he would and it might be in his contract anyway.

 

[BeardedVol]

He wouldn't. But I'm not talking about having an 8-4 season. I'm talking about winning the East. The argument was whether or not Jones would deserve a raise/extension for winning the East. I say he would and it might be in his contract anyway.

OK. We technically could still win the east at 8-4, with a 5-3 conf record losses to GT, LSU, Bama, and Muschamp-USCe, if Florida happens to be worse and Georgia doesn't improve as much as most teams do in year 2 of a new head coach.

The point is, any school is going to look at a coach's body of work, and not just a single season if they are going to try and poach him. Winning the division once in a five year period is not going to get the attention of schools willing to pay $5 million+.

I'm not saying he shouldn't get a raise if he wins the east, just that if he didn't, he'd have no real leverage to demand one.