Bored on Saturday: Potential depth chart next year

[JMSqb11]

What corner was that? He didn't play that great against South Carolina.

Uh, protecting the ball. You realize our turnover ratio to takeaways was + before he got hurt.

 

[k-town_king]

Worley was a better hs player than Ferguson or either of the others. Basing the prediction that Ferguson will beat Worley out based on HIS hs video et al... is just dumb.

Again, surround a good decision maker and O manager like Worley with quality skill players... and he will produce. He has NFL level arm strength and his "accuracy" improved dramatically as the receivers started to prove themselves more trustworthy.

Worley is the only one of the 4 who has proven to be anything like a SEC level starting QB.

55% to 60 % for Dobbs who was true Fr and played a tougher schedule. Worley is not accurate at all and can't run. He didn't turn the ball over that's all. Dobbs or Ferg won't turn the ball over either after some game experience. Coming in to the year Worley had 1 td to 5 ints. Dobbs played tougher teams than Worley did as an underclassman. He did better with way less talent. So going into next year Dobbs will have a better resume and more experience than Worley did at the beginning of this season. Not to mention more talent. I don't see how CBJ would play Worley over a qb that has three years left. And if Ferg is as good as some seems to think he will beat out Dobbs. I don't think Worley has a chance really.

 

[tarvol73]

I've been saying something like this since about the time he was hired. He needed a better recruiting class than he got last year. I'm not blaming him but having some studs coming back ready to play as Sophs next fall would have helped his chances a lot. He wasn't able to do it. Again... not necessarily a "reasonable" demand... but something he "needed".

He needed 7 wins this fall. Six would have been treading water. Five leaves him in the position you recognize above. People attacked me for saying so months ago... but I was already thinking in terms of what happens in year 3.

Next fall he has a weaker roster when you combine talent, experience, and development than he did this fall. Five wins will be the equivalent coaching effort of what six would have been this year. Six will be the equivalent of what 7 would have been this year. Winning more than that... will take an exceptional coaching job.

So if we get what seems "likely" as we sit here now... 4-6 wins... then Jones will sit in year 3 where Dooley and Fulmer sat the year before they were fired. He'll have a roster mostly of his own creation needing to win to save his neck.

The wildcard in all this is the good will he has bought with supporters and former players. It could get him a 4th year that he hasn't actually earned on the field.

I don't know how you say that he has a weaker roster. On defense he replaces DTs, McCullers and Hood with Williams, Saulsberry, Carr, Mixon and Thomas. We lose Smith, Miller and Walls as DEs, but gain Lambert, Brown, Miller, Henderson, Hendrix and Vickers, who may be a DT.
We lose Sapp and Brewer, Propst and King with Weatherd, Maggitt, Bates, Mouhon, Grant and Johnson.
We lose no one in the secondary but gain the Berrys, Payne, McDowell, Kelly, Gaulden, and Moseley.

On offense we lose no WRs or TEs but gain Wolfe, Helm, Malone, Pearson, Jenkins, even Wharton and Creamer. We lose Neal, but gain Hurd and possibly Williams or Scott. All the QBs come back, most importantly Ferguson and Dobbs are sophomores.

The only position that has less assumed talent will be O line. Jackson is a starter. Wiesman would have been starting had he been a sophomore. We will have a 4 yr Jr in Crowder and Thomas is awesome and is an EE. Kerbyson played a ton, and Blair is one of the best JUCO OTs and is an EE. Offensive line is the only area where we may take a step back but that isn't a sure thing. We add Jackson, Kendrick, Sanders, Blair, Brown, Raulerson, and Thomas. We may even be better at O line.

Every position is poised to have more talent, much more depth, and you assume that we will be worse. It doesn't make sense. I am not even discussing the fact that these new players were recruited by these coaches, and all of the returning players will finally be in their second year with this staff. We will be rid of many of Dooley's leftovers. We will be turning over the losing mentality that had pervaded for so long. We will be better and win more games next year.

 

[sjt18]

55% to 60 % for Dobbs who was true Fr and played a tougher schedule. Worley is not accurate at all and can't run.

He didn't run much. When he did, he was effective. He improved as the receivers improved. He threw the ball away at the right times rather than throwing into coverage or taking sacks.

He didn't turn the ball over that's all. Dobbs or Ferg won't turn the ball over either after some game experience. Coming in to the year Worley had 1 td to 5 ints. Dobbs played tougher teams than Worley did as an underclassman. He did better with way less talent. So going into next year Dobbs will have a better resume and more experience than Worley did at the beginning of this season. Not to mention more talent. I don't see how CBJ would play Worley over a qb that has three years left. And if Ferg is as good as some seems to think he will beat out Dobbs. I don't think Worley has a chance really.

I want the best guy to get the job. But those of you who are dismissing Worley are way ahead of yourselves. He led the team. They got their best win behind him. He did all the bleeding with the young WR's early in the season.

Jones wasn't kidding when he said he was their best option... many here thought he was but it is obvious now he wasn't.

 

[LotteryPick]

Worley was a better hs player than Ferguson or either of the others.

Disagree. Maybe Dobbs, but not Ferguson. Ferguson led one of the best teams in the nation and lost, I think, one game in his HS career. Great offer list and would have made the elite 11 if he didn't injure his hand.

Doesn't make him a better college player, but I just disagree with the HS part.

 

[sjt18]

I don't know how you say that he has a weaker roster. On defense he replaces DTs, McCullers and Hood with Williams, Saulsberry, Carr, Mixon and Thomas. We lose Smith, Miller and Walls as DEs, but gain Lambert, Brown, Miller, Henderson, Hendrix and Vickers, who may be a DT.

How many of the guys you are counting on have any experience in the SEC? How many have any more knowledge of the "system" than the mature guys they replace? The only guy you mention above who has proven he can play in the SEC is Saulsberry and Williams if you are talking about Jordan.

We lose Sapp and Brewer, Propst and King with Weatherd, Maggitt, Bates, Mouhon, Grant and Johnson.

Fr replacing Srs... and once again, the "they haven't been in the system long enough" excuse/reason will be out there to explain them being out of position.

We lose no one in the secondary but gain the Berrys, Payne, McDowell, Kelly, Gaulden, and Moseley.

The secondary should improve but primarily because they return all four starters and should be able to bring a couple of others on the roster now along. Some newcomers will play but we all best hope they aren't the backbone of the secondary.

On offense we lose no WRs or TEs but gain Wolfe, Helm, Malone, Pearson, Jenkins, even Wharton and Creamer. We lose Neal, but gain Hurd and possibly Williams or Scott. All the QBs come back, most importantly Ferguson and Dobbs are sophomores.

Like I said, still young at receiver and unsettled at QB.

The only position that has less assumed talent will be O line. Jackson is a starter. Wiesman would have been starting had he been a sophomore. We will have a 4 yr Jr in Crowder and Thomas is awesome and is an EE. Kerbyson played a ton, and Blair is one of the best JUCO OTs and is an EE. Offensive line is the only area where we may take a step back but that isn't a sure thing. We add Jackson, Kendrick, Sanders, Blair, Brown, Raulerson, and Thomas. We may even be better at O line.

The team may be better everywhere IF the coaches prove they can coach and develop players. They didn't do that in a way that produced tangible results this season.

Every position is poised to have more talent, much more depth, and you assume that we will be worse. It doesn't make sense.

"More talent" is based on recruiting rankings and development of talent that has not occurred yet. There's LESS experience by far.

I am not even discussing the fact that these new players were recruited by these coaches, and all of the returning players will finally be in their second year with this staff. We will be rid of many of Dooley's leftovers. We will be turning over the losing mentality that had pervaded for so long. We will be better and win more games next year.

Yeah... OK. More of that old excuse.

Coaches... coach. Great coaches... coach GREAT and it doesn't matter who recruited the players OR how much talent the player has. They improve them.

 

[sjt18]

Disagree. Maybe Dobbs, but not Ferguson. Ferguson led one of the best teams in the nation and lost, I think, one game in his HS career. Great offer list and would have made the elite 11 if he didn't injure his hand.

Doesn't make him a better college player, but I just disagree with the HS part.

Did he every play or beat a player as good as Clowney?

I honestly do not recall his HS stats... but know they weren't as good as Worley's.

I am not even saying that being a better HS player makes them a better college player... as some keep trying to do when they claim RF is the "guy". All I am saying is that a) the reason given didn't support the conclusion and b) no one should write Worley off right now based on what we actually know about on-field performance.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

The team may be better everywhere IF the coaches prove they can coach and develop players. They didn't do that in a way that produced tangible results this season.

"More talent" is based on recruiting rankings and development of talent that has not occurred yet. There's LESS experience by far.



Yeah... OK. More of that old excuse.

Coaches... coach. Great coaches... coach GREAT and it doesn't matter who recruited the players OR how much talent the player has. They improve them.

You realize it takes longer than a year to develop players right? These players have played for a bunch of coaches the last few years and everyone tells them something different. That leads to players thinking too much and not just playing. Couple that with the fact that a lot of these players aren't that talented to begin with and its very unreasonable to expect CBJ to develop them into SEC winners by mid season. You just aren't being realistic.

 

[Volswin98]

I would rather sacrifice some of next year to get of the higher rated freshmen game experience rather than using the slower and less talented seniors to try and squeeze out a win because if we don't; we would have no experience in year three and that is the year I am looking too.

 

[LotteryPick]

Did he every play or beat a player as good as Clowney?

I honestly do not recall his HS stats... but know they weren't as good as Worley's.

I am not even saying that being a better HS player makes them a better college player... as some keep trying to do when they claim RF is the "guy". All I am saying is that a) the reason given didn't support the conclusion and b) no one should write Worley off right now based on what we actually know about on-field performance.

You have to take into account the system Worley played in. They passed. The entire time. Statistics don't tell the whole story here.

Clowney was pretty much a one man team. Worley tore up that secondary, but Clowney tore up Worley many a time.

Worley didn't have offers from the home state and his offer list wasn't nearly as impressive.

Like I've said before, I'm not partial to any one QB; I'm just calling it like I see it.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

I would rather sacrifice some of next year to get of the higher rated freshmen game experience rather than using the slower and less talented seniors to try and squeeze out a win because if we don't; we would have no experience in year three and that is the year I am looking too.

That's not how it works at the qb position my friend. Maybe RB or receiver yeah I would agree but I want my qb to have good experience and good poise and take care of the ball. You can't just throw season s away because you want players to have experience two years from now. This isn't xbox.

 

[KBVol]

Worley is our starting QB. Hill will be the #2 RB. Maybe a JUCO transfer TBA at nose tackle.

Can see a situation where Worley starts at qb but I seriously doubt it. No way Hill is #2 rb. Lane, Hurd, Pickett, even Somerhill ahead of Hill. Hurd more than likely pushes Lane as the starter. If we land Williams or Scott this class, Hill moves even further down. No offense to him, but he's being recruited over as he couldn't see the field this year.

 

[Volswin98]

That's not how it works at the qb position my friend. Maybe RB or receiver yeah I would agree but I want my qb to have good experience and good poise and take care of the ball. You can't just throw season s away because you want players to have experience two years from now. This isn't xbox.

Where in my post did I say the QB position my friend? I don't play Xbox by the way.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Where in my post did I say the QB position my friend? I don't play Xbox by the way.

I assumed since you said bench the seniors and let the young guys play you were eluding to Worley.

 

[Volswin98]

I assumed since you said bench the seniors and let the young guys play you were eluding to Worley.

I can see how you thought that because the thread took off on QB, but I was going off the entire team from the OP.

 

[sjt18]

You realize it takes longer than a year to develop players right?

Yes and no. Have other coaches developed players within a year and won? Yes. Is it typical? Not that much.

But which side of the argument do you think I am on? I guy just blasted me for suggesting the roster dependent to a pretty large degree on Sophs and 35 or so new signees will be weaker than one that had a bunch of Srs.

So which side are you on? The one saying that experience and development matters or the one saying it doesn't? The one saying some is better than none or the one saying none is "oh so obviously" better than some?

These players have played for a bunch of coaches the last few years and everyone tells them something different.

That's not altogether true. Teaching methods may be different but types of blocks, tackling, coverage techniques, and many fundamental things like that carry over in some form or another.

That leads to players thinking too much and not just playing. Couple that with the fact that a lot of these players aren't that talented to begin with and its very unreasonable to expect CBJ to develop them into SEC winners by mid season. You just aren't being realistic.

Yes. I am afraid I am being VERY realistic. If players are overthinking in game 3 then you can lay that on the players but if they are still overthinking in game 11 then that is on the coaches. Go back and take a look at what Monte Kiffin did with low talent Fr at LB in his one season at UT. Go look at what Wilcox did with inexperienced and undertalented players for two years.

It is YOU guys who aren't being "realistic".

And who said anything about making them big winners? Showing up against Bama, Mizzou, and AU for at least a half would have been "reasonable"... Beating a pretty untalented Vandy team would have been VERY reasonable.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Yes and no. Have other coaches developed players within a year and won? Yes. Is it typical? Not that much.

But which side of the argument do you think I am on? I guy just blasted me for suggesting the roster dependent to a pretty large degree on Sophs and 35 or so new signees will be weaker than one that had a bunch of Srs.

So which side are you on? The one saying that experience and development matters or the one saying it doesn't? The one saying some is better than none or the one saying none is "oh so obviously" better than some?

That's not altogether true. Teaching methods may be different but types of blocks, tackling, coverage techniques, and many fundamental things like that carry over in some form or another.



Yes. I am afraid I am being VERY realistic. If players are overthinking in game 3 then you can lay that on the players but if they are still overthinking in game 11 then that is on the coaches. Go back and take a look at what Monte Kiffin did with low talent Fr at LB in his one season at UT. Go look at what Wilcox did with inexperienced and undertalented players for two years.

It is YOU guys who aren't being "realistic".

And who said anything about making them big winners? Showing up against Bama, Mizzou, and AU for at least a half would have been "reasonable"... Beating a pretty untalented Vandy team would have been VERY reasonable.

I will give you Wilcox but not Kiffin. That team had a lot of talent and imo we should have won more games that year.

And I hate to say this but Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn are just that much better than us right now. I mean Bama has won back to back titles and Mizzou and AU are playing for the conference title right now. Not to mention we had Dobbs at qb those games and yeah he looked good against Kentucky but pretty much didn't even look like an SEC qb against anyone else. How can we compete against those teams with a bad defense and qb who shouldn't be on the field? We can't. Do you really think CBJ should be able to coach around that?
Should we have beaten Vandy? Yes. We had that game and let it slip away. But lets not forget they absolutely embarassed us last year.

 

[jeffmcflurry27]

I don't know how you say that he has a weaker roster. On defense he replaces DTs, McCullers and Hood with Williams, Saulsberry, Carr, Mixon and Thomas. We lose Smith, Miller and Walls as DEs, but gain Lambert, Brown, Miller, Henderson, Hendrix and Vickers, who may be a DT.
We lose Sapp and Brewer, Propst and King with Weatherd, Maggitt, Bates, Mouhon, Grant and Johnson.
We lose no one in the secondary but gain the Berrys, Payne, McDowell, Kelly, Gaulden, and Moseley.

On offense we lose no WRs or TEs but gain Wolfe, Helm, Malone, Pearson, Jenkins, even Wharton and Creamer. We lose Neal, but gain Hurd and possibly Williams or Scott. All the QBs come back, most importantly Ferguson and Dobbs are sophomores.

The only position that has less assumed talent will be O line. Jackson is a starter. Wiesman would have been starting had he been a sophomore. We will have a 4 yr Jr in Crowder and Thomas is awesome and is an EE. Kerbyson played a ton, and Blair is one of the best JUCO OTs and is an EE. Offensive line is the only area where we may take a step back but that isn't a sure thing. We add Jackson, Kendrick, Sanders, Blair, Brown, Raulerson, and Thomas. We may even be better at O line.

Every position is poised to have more talent, much more depth, and you assume that we will be worse. It doesn't make sense. I am not even discussing the fact that these new players were recruited by these coaches, and all of the returning players will finally be in their second year with this staff. We will be rid of many of Dooley's leftovers. We will be turning over the losing mentality that had pervaded for so long. We will be better and win more games next year.

Most of this "depth" that you speak of will have never played a single down of major college football. There is a learning curve. Not everyone is going to produce to the level of Nick Fairly, CP, Julio Jones, Eric Berry, or Cam Newton from day 1.

This is just another example of unrealistic expectations.

 

[sjt18]

I will give you Wilcox but not Kiffin. That team had a lot of talent and imo we should have won more games that year.

Do you remember how many LB injuries UT had that year. Mitchell-Thornton, King, and Nelson iirc got the only real playing time of their careers.

And I hate to say this but Bama, Mizzou, and Auburn are just that much better than us right now.

Bama and Auburn have more talent. Mizzou does not and did not. They have a very good system and a good group of Srs. The problem with your statement is this. Dooley with very similar odds against Bama and Oregon made a game of it until the half. We all hope Jones is a much better coach in every respect than Dooley... but the fact that his teams were pretty much out of 4 games this year well before the half is troubling.

Not to mention we had Dobbs at qb those games and yeah he looked good against Kentucky but pretty much didn't even look like an SEC qb against anyone else. How can we compete against those teams with a bad defense and qb who shouldn't be on the field? We can't. Do you really think CBJ should be able to coach around that?

Yes. At least to the point of showing some sort of sign that they can scheme and make improvements/corrections.

Do you remember what Kiffin did at UF and Bama? That was pretty much all coaching.

Should we have beaten Vandy? Yes. We had that game and let it slip away. But lets not forget they absolutely embarassed us last year.

I can't bring myself to accept Dooley's "effort" last year as any form of excuse for Jones.

 

[easttnvol14]

Wouldn't be if surprised if Foreman is starting at corner next year. I saw him at a track meet here in Knoxville last year and he blew away Wharton, Jalen Ramsey and several other of the top football recruits in the 100 m. And as we all know, we need speed in the secondary. Wouldn't be surprised if he returns kicks too. He can fly.

 

[BigMASS]

Offense: Base
Riley
Hurd
North, Pearson, Malone
Helm
Blair, Jackson, Crowder, Weisman, Kyberson (sp)
Traditional slot: Pig
Double TE: Downs
2nd Rb: Lane
Five wide: Pig, Jenkins
Wr/Te hybrid: Croon, Creamer (think Jake utilizes this, this season)
Defense: base
De: Vereen
Dt: Salisbury, Carr
De: Lambert
Olb: Weathered, Maggit
Mlb: AJ
Cb: Sutton, Moseley
S: Randolf, TK2
Nb: Payne
Pass down de: Vereen, Maggit
Pass down Dt: Lambert
Pass down Lb: JRM, King
Spur (Olb/S hybrid): McNeil
Same cb&s
I think we employ this defense this year along with the hybrids (Wr/Te) on offense

 

[DocVol]

*potayshunul

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

What corner was that? He didn't play that great against South Carolina.

He didn't turn the ball over and led us to victory and if some passes were not dropped his stats would have been much better. Worley and the wole offense was getting better.

 

[Catbone]

Worley is our starting QB. Hill will be the #2 RB. Maybe a JUCO transfer TBA at nose tackle.

To me, that is scary.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Do you remember how many LB injuries UT had that year. Mitchell-Thornton, King, and Nelson iirc got the only real playing time of their careers.

Bama and Auburn have more talent. Mizzou does not and did not. They have a very good system and a good group of Srs. The problem with your statement is this. Dooley with very similar odds against Bama and Oregon made a game of it until the half. We all hope Jones is a much better coach in every respect than Dooley... but the fact that his teams were pretty much out of 4 games this year well before the half is troubling.

Yes. At least to the point of showing some sort of sign that they can scheme and make improvements/corrections.

Do you remember what Kiffin did at UF and Bama? That was pretty much all coaching.

I can't bring myself to accept Dooley's "effort" last year as any form of excuse for Jones.

Dooleys record against Alabama:
41-10
37-6
44-13

Dooley had more offensive weapons and still cold only manage 2 TDs in 3 years. It doesn't matter if it was competitive for 5 minutes or 1 half the results were still the same. Last year with CP, Bray, Rogers, Hunter, Rivera they had to rely on AJ for the only TD.

So what would have been the difference is we would have kept the Bama, Missouri, Auburn and Oregon games competitive for the first half but still ended up losing by the same amount? I guess keeping those games competitive for 2 quarters would have made the losses different?

Kiffin lost to UF and Alabama. It doesn't matter how he lost, the simple fact is he lost. There is not an asterisk by these games indicating that he kept those games competitive. They are losses. Kiffin also needed OT to beat UK. He also lost to a UCLA team that only won 3 conference games that year.