Bad Coach or No Talent?

#228
#228
It's what the athlete makes of it. The coaches can only do so much. If the athlete has talent it will come through. Coaches are there to help bring it out. You have to want it to begin with.
 
#229
#229
Well after this year we'll either have at least 3 in the first rd of the 2013 draft (bray, hunter, rogers) or we'll have 1 or more superstar staying for their sr season! So we won't be stuck w only 1 5th rd draft pick for long (and some even believe that bray will go top 5 in either the 2013 or 2014 nfl draft, whichever one he's in) GBO
 
#230
#230
First, I don't wish for Dooley to fail, but if a fan were to honest with themselves. It would be hard for them to find very many bright spots in Dooley's tenure at Tennessee.

I was optimistic about Dooley after his first year, but that optimistism has faded from the results of both on the field and off the field over the last year.

Dooley has already accumulated (5) 30+ point losses in only (2) seasons. That’s more blowout losses than Tennessee has endured in the 30 years prior to his arrival. Combined

Dooley has been a head coach for half a decade, and only been a winner in one of those years.

4-12 SEC Record

0-10 againt Ranked Opponents


Dooley does have a lot of positive attributes but they're immaterial. Since, he's failed to win at Tennessee to this point in his tenure. We're all judged by our results, and when we lower our expectations. We not only accept mediocrity, but add value to it.
 
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#233
#233
Volst53 said:
First, I don't wish for Dooley to fail, but if a fan were to honest with themselves. It would be hard for them to find very many bright spots in Dooley's tenure at Tennessee.

I was optimistic about Dooley after his first year, but that optimistism has faded from the results of both on the field and off the field over the last year.

Dooley has already accumulated (5) 30+ point losses in only (2) seasons. That’s more blowout losses than Tennessee has endured in the 30 years prior to his arrival. Combined

Dooley has been a head coach for half a decade, and only been a winner in one of those years.

4-12 SEC Record

0-10 againt Ranked Opponents


Dooley does have a lot of positive attributes but they're immaterial. Since, he's failed to win at Tennessee to this point in his tenure. We're all judged by our results, and when we lower our expectations. We not only accept mediocrity, but add value to it.
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For the first time I think he is on a level playing field.
anybody that says he's going to fail because of the last 2 years isn't very smart.
Nobody I know is saying he's going to be great. most are saying we don't know because of the situation.
The sad reality is this year will likely not make or brake him.
I personally think he wins 8 and these fights will continue for yet another year.
 
#235
#235
kidbourbon said:
I have yet to see a mock draft without Tyler Bray in the first round.

In fact, I'm not sure if I've even seen him outside the top ten.

You could respond back that mock drafts are stupid. But then I'll just respond back that they're likely smarter than you. So please don't respond back that mock drafts are stupid, and then we can avoid me following up by noting that they are very likely smarter than you.
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Fantastic post.
 
#237
#237
vol_in_il said:
dude, people want Dooley to succed, everyone's tired of where Tennessee is as a program, but after his first 2 years, he's not really shown the ability to win, and be a top tier coach in the SEC
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With the quagmire he inherited what did you expect him to do.....win the SEC and appear in a BCS game? Be realistic man.....what he inherited was a team that had been decimated just like a team coming off major probation....good grief
 
#238
#238
WA_Vol said:
You can blame a lack of talent to a point, but when you lose to Kentucky who is starting their 3rd string QB, and team you have beaten 20 odd years in a year. There are coaching issues. Dooley made changes to his staff lets if one more season makes a difference. The team is mostly upperclassmen on both sides of the ball.
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Fulmer lost to Memphis with Peyton Manning at the helm.....stfu about KY already
 
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#239
#239
vol_in_il said:
i'm just pointing out you said you couldn't judge him by his two years here, but he also has previous years at La Tech that demonstrate his ability or lack there of
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Yes LA Tech that football powerhouse where every coach in their history has succeeded....where they play in a cow pasture and the big boosters get a seat cushion for the bleacher seat....
 
#240
#240
Carl Pickens said:
Yes LA Tech that football powerhouse where every coach in their history has succeeded....where they play in a cow pasture and the big boosters get a seat cushion for the bleacher seat....
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La Tech has a 56% winning % for the history of their program and the bulk of those came prior to the last 20 years.

Can't believe he didn't win big there.
 
#244
#244
Lexvol said:
You are what your record says you are.
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No doubt about it. Everyone understands that CDD inherited a grease fire. But I think if people were really honest, even the blind homers would tell you they have no clue whether the guy can coach or not yet.
 
#245
#245
Volst53 said:
First, I don't wish for Dooley to fail, but if a fan were to honest with themselves. It would be hard for them to find very many bright spots in Dooley's tenure at Tennessee.

I was optimistic about Dooley after his first year, but that optimistism has faded from the results of both on the field and off the field over the last year.

Dooley has already accumulated (5) 30+ point losses in only (2) seasons. That’s more blowout losses than Tennessee has endured in the 30 years prior to his arrival. Combined

Dooley has been a head coach for half a decade, and only been a winner in one of those years.

4-12 SEC Record

0-10 againt Ranked Opponents


Dooley does have a lot of positive attributes but they're immaterial. Since, he's failed to win at Tennessee to this point in his tenure. We're all judged by our results, and when we lower our expectations. We not only accept mediocrity, but add value to it.
Click to expand...

This does not answer the question at all. All you do is complain that the results are substandard. Are the sub-standard results the product of coaching or lack of talent?

I have questions about CDD's coaching abilities, but I am willing to support him another year with the hopes that the record sees a big improvement this year to around 8-4.

The reasons I am willing to continue holding out hope for CDD are, number 1, because nobody can deny the utter mess he inherited. Complete turmoil. He has stabilized the program.

Number 2, the NFL draft does not lie because NFL teams draft based on ability (i.e., talnet). And, when the scouts have analyzed Tennessee seniors the past two seasons, they have not graded them as having much ability. It is hard to win a gunfight when armed with a plastic spoon, and that is basically what we and CDD have been facing the past two seasons. Numerous coaches have stated that superior talent trumps coaching nearly every time.

That situation is changing, and CDD has to be given credit for slowly restocking the talent on this team. We are about to see if he can turn that elevated talent into wins. I do not believe we have superior talent in the SEC yet, but we should have cometitive talent. A reasonable expectation IMO (barring another injury to Bray) would be around 8-4 while being competitive against the entire schedule.
 
#246
#246
The coaching changes and recruiting character risk guys were major problems. There were several former Vols drafted or who have since signed free agent deals. All of their stocks plummeted when they left UT. So, making it back up is impressive and shows they had some talent.

Off the top of my head:
Bryce Brown
Janzen Jackson
BJ Coleman
Lennon Creer
Nick Stephens
 
#247
#247
GAVol said:
No doubt about it. Everyone understands that CDD inherited a grease fire. But I think if people were really honest, even the blind homers would tell you they have no clue whether the guy can coach or not yet.
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This is all I'm trying to say.
 
#248
#248
GAVol said:
No doubt about it. Everyone understands that CDD inherited a grease fire. But I think if people were really honest, even the blind homers would tell you they have no clue whether the guy can coach or not yet.
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Exactly.

To go a step further, were not sitting around waiting for him to hit on a level of success he had in the past at another school. Were waiting for him to hit his first success as a HC anywhere.

That may happen here, it may happen somewhere else. Or it may never happen. 2012 is gonna shine the light on what he is or isn't.
 
#249
#249
BeecherVol said:
Exactly.

To go a step further, were not sitting around waiting for him to hit on a level of success he had in the past at another school. Were waiting for him to hit his first success as a HC anywhere.

That may happen here, it may happen somewhere else. Or it may never happen. 2012 is gonna shine the light on what he is or isn't.
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Absolutely correct. We will know what we do or don't have by December. I sincerely hope that he makes it because I don't know if I can endure another coaching change and the turmoil/setbacks that naturally follow.
 
#250
#250
EZE said:
This does not answer the question at all. All you do is complain that the results are substandard. Are the sub-standard results the product of coaching or lack of talent?

I have questions about CDD's coaching abilities, but I am willing to support him another year with the hopes that the record sees a big improvement this year to around 8-4.

The reasons I am willing to continue holding out hope for CDD are, number 1, because nobody can deny the utter mess he inherited. Complete turmoil. He has stabilized the program.

Number 2, the NFL draft does not lie because NFL teams draft based on ability (i.e., talnet). And, when the scouts have analyzed Tennessee seniors the past two seasons, they have not graded them as having much ability. It is hard to win a gunfight when armed with a plastic spoon, and that is basically what we and CDD have been facing the past two seasons. Numerous coaches have stated that superior talent trumps coaching nearly every time.

That situation is changing, and CDD has to be given credit for slowly restocking the talent on this team. We are about to see if he can turn that elevated talent into wins. I do not believe we have superior talent in the SEC yet, but we should have cometitive talent. A reasonable expectation IMO (barring another injury to Bray) would be around 8-4 while being competitive against the entire schedule.
Click to expand...


Dooley walked into a tough situation, but he still has to be accountable for his results.

Dooley might be the greatest football coach that ever lived, but might have the worst luck ever. I don't know how to quantify luck though, so that first part seems like a stretch.

Over the last 32 years, Tennessee has had good, bad, average, and maybe even great coaches. Tennessee has had good, bad, average, and great players over the same time, but in two years Dooley has had more blow out defeats ( 30 points or more) than the 30 years before his time.

If Dooley had Tennessee playing smart, disciplined, and tough football, I could handle the results of our record, but our style of play matches our record. That doesn't give some fans the greatest optimism.

That doesn't mean that they still don't love or cheer for Tennessee, but that they just have a different view point at the perceived direction of the program.
 
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