A good article that can lend some insight on our OL and the ZBS in general

#26
#26
jkleno said:
As a former Titan season ticket holder, Munchak was horrible at nearly everything. For a team who spends high 1st round draft picks and 2nd/3rd round picks seemingly every year on OL, they are pitiful.
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As an OL Coach he was very good. As a HFC? Not so much. There are plenty of great Position coaches or Coordinators that flame out as head coaches.

Don't forget he was OL Coach from 1997-2010 and had some very good OLs.
 
#27
#27
sameolvol said:
Really good post. CBJ's patient with this because zone blocking is the heart of his offensive scheme. There should be the proper pool of talent within the next couple of years-or-so, as surely Mahoney's looking for athletes with the blend of football IQ and pertinent athletic traits required. It'll take time, but as you aptly pointed out, once they've "got it"in a more collective manner, those RBs are going find some big valleys to run through.
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If true, Butch and his staff will be long gone before they have the players they want as upperclassmen. They're not going to get more than 4 year if they're not beating good SEC teams.
 
#29
#29
VolunteerHillbilly said:
If true, Butch and his staff will be long gone before they have the players they want as upperclassmen. They're not going to get more than 4 year if they're not beating good SEC teams.
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But changing of the coaches is exactly why we are in this situation now, bringing in another coach to go a different direction doesn't work, please tell me we all know this on Vol Nation...well just a thought.
 
#30
#30
I think everyone on here knows that the vast majority of the kids coming to UT want to go to the NFL and think they can. If we run a ZBS and our lineman know this system from college then it would make them a much more valuable draft choice to a pro team. Because they are not going to have to spend years teaching the technique to another OL player that has never run in a ZBS system before, as a pro scout evalutes them wonders if said player could adapt, the Vol lineman would be a sought after prospect. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ The VOL LINEMAN CAN OBVIOUSLY RUN THE TRADITIONAL BLOCKING FROM HIGH SCOOL AND ZBS FROM COLLEGE AND A PRO TEAM KNOWS IT AND PAYS FOR IT. As I said earlier all the kids want to make it to the pros. I think everyone on he knows Butch is a masterful recruiter, I AM SURE BUTCH IS EXPLAINING TO OL PROSPECTS THAT THEY CAN MAKE THEMSELVES MORE ATTRACTIVE TO THE NFL BY COMING TO TENNESSEE AND PLAYING FOR US AND LEARN AND PLAY IN A ZBS AND SHOW THE PRO SCOUTS YOU "GET IT" cause Butch don't miss any angles. Go VOLS beat old miss.
 
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#31
#31
I think the O linemen have skills, just not the game experience. They don't recognize what to do if the D line shifts, LB's walk up to the line etc. It gets confusing on exactly who to block when we have 5 blockers and 8 rushers. Game experience will take care of this eventually.
 
#32
#32
Sorry, when ever I heard the words zone blocking I start to shake and have flashbacks of the "Clawfense"!

Arrrggggg!!!
 
#33
#33
ItsAllVols said:
But changing of the coaches is exactly why we are in this situation now, bringing in another coach to go a different direction doesn't work, please tell me we all know this on Vol Nation...well just a thought.
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No bringing in the wrong coaches is the problem..you hire the right guy problem solved..just a thought
 
#34
#34
Seems the Steelers have the same .500 record we have and are at the bottom of their division. coincidence? :rolleyes:
 
#35
#35
volfan4evr said:
I think the O linemen have skills, just not the game experience. They don't recognize what to do if the D line shifts, LB's walk up to the line etc. It gets confusing on exactly who to block when we have 5 blockers and 8 rushers. Game experience will take care of this eventually.
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Unfortunately though we've developed more basic issues than just knowing who to block. We also aren't putting ourselves in a position to make a play or giving the right effort to make the play. Our guys are hesitating. No I cannot read their minds but they look like they are not confident and it is keeping them from playing fast or with tenacity.

  • They are dropping back too fast in some cases allowing defenders inside lanes or over pursuing and allowing them to roll outside.
  • Not firing off hard on all plays which prevents us getting push.
  • Not making a second effort to slow down crashing line backers.
  • Not moving their feet to be in position to make a play.
 
#36
#36
We could likely afford one or 2 mistakes per drive but we have different guys making different mistakes nearly every play of a drive. Consistency.
 
#37
#37
Lastly and I will shut the heck up. Worley needs to work on his internal timer. If he is at 3 seconds and the ball is in his hand pick one of 3.

  • Run
  • Throw it to a place no one can get it but a flag would not be thrown.
  • Fall down in a fetal position but protect the ball
 
#38
#38
HaywoodVol said:
Seems the Steelers have the same .500 record we have and are at the bottom of their division. coincidence? :rolleyes:
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5th/32 in rush yards/game.

Only 3 rush TDs which is tied for 22/32 (only 5 teams have 2 or fewer).

17 sacks given up which is only bested by 4 other teams.

To be honest, you see a lot of similarities. The Pittsburgh OL will struggle this year, again, due to the complexity of the system.

Which is what the article said. Which is the point I'm trying to make.

The problem is the ZBS is easier to implement in the NFL where you can get a core group of guys where, every year, you're returning 3-4 starters from the previous year and a bulk of the players will have been in the system for multiple years. This is not the case in college where the turnover is much higher and half the time is spent trying to make a high school player physically and mentally capable of playing at the collegiate level.

OL is hard enough. ZBS at college just makes it more difficult on the staff and players.

Just an opinion piece though. Providing insight from former players within a ZBS and I saw a lot of parallels to the struggles our own line is having.
 
#39
#39
And AFAIK all of the top running teams in the NFL utilize the ZBS heavily, but they use more jumbo packages than we do. Most teams in the NFL run a majority of snaps out of the shotgun as well.

Regardless, this is purely about the OL but has kind of gone on a tangent regarding how our Offense is framed and run.

Point being, until the OL can block worth a crap... it doesn't matter what we do. Cowboys? They run a ZBS scheme and out of the shotgun with a non-mobile QB. They also have a killer OL. Same with Seattle.

Jacksonville runs a similar offense to both of them but are getting killed due to a horrible OL. It starts and ends with the OL.

And that falls on Mahoney. Right now it's on him to get these guys up to snuff. It's more difficult for college teams to run it but Oregon runs a ZBS read-option Offense well with college players. And a bulk of their OL are 3* guys also.

It can be done. It's all on Mahoney.
 
#40
#40
ItsAllVols said:
But changing of the coaches is exactly why we are in this situation now, bringing in another coach to go a different direction doesn't work, please tell me we all know this on Vol Nation...well just a thought.
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If zone blocking is not going to work here,whether it's due to fan impatience or us not being able to get the right guys or power teams just being able to blow through it at the college level, then we will have to replace the coach. We're one season separated from being about as bad as we've ever been which means there's not that far to fall if you hit the reset button.
 
#41
#41
VolunteerHillbilly said:
If zone blocking is not going to work here,whether it's due to fan impatience or us not being able to get the right guys or power teams just being able to blow through it at the college level, then we will have to replace the coach. We're one season separated from being about as bad as we've ever been which means there's not that far to fall if you hit the reset button.
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I think you're missing the point, here. CBJ's entire offensive philosophy is based on zone blocking schemes. Are you unwittingly suggesting the AD fires this whole ZBS scheming coaching staff. If Mahoney's replaced, it would be with another coach teaching and scheming in all zone blocking as well. This is a far more complicated system than man blocking, but once well enough instilled, it wreaks havoc on opposing D's. Get it?
 
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