#8 Lady Vols Fall At Vandy, 74-63

#26
#26
Convoluted said:
Maybe it's not Holly's fault or the players fault. Maybe they're just not as good as the players they're playing against. Other teams are getting better players than they use to. What happened in the past has no bearing on what happens now. Nothing lasts forever. One solution is to become a fan of a team with more promise. You'll be much happier instantly!
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Like it or not.....we're all VFL here. If you leave, no one will miss ya.
 
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#27
#27
PineyBluff Vol said:
Delusion is a form of happiness, not really into it however!:crazy:
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You're one of the folks here that is not delusional. When I read all the posts about how the refs hate Tennessee, and that's why they are not doing better, it makes me wonder about many others. Those people might be happier switching.
 
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#28
#28
Can't blame the ref's for this one. Vandy shouldn't have been close enough for them to make a difference. This team thinks they are good. They haven't realized yet that they have to play the game to prove it. Our big advantage was size and we got 19 points out of the 3 bigs total. HELLO!! Anybody home over there. How is that possible? Offense is horrible. No penetration and dishing and when they do the pass is at their ankles or 5 feet over their head. I've always wanted Nikki as coach, but once Holly was hired I've been in the wait and see mode. I'm still in that mode, but I'm not as confident it will work as I once was. Could this have been the game to wake this bunch up? It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
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#29
#29
Convoluted said:
You're one of the folks here that is not delusional. When I read all the posts about how the refs hate Tennessee, and that's why they are not doing better, it makes me wonder about many others. Those people might be happier switching.
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Don't hear me discussing refs very much, in my opinion it is a moot point. Can't really do much about the whistle, only try and improve the play of your team.
 
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#32
#32
There was a reason she never got hired as a HC while sitting on the Vol bench for 20 plus years. I mean during the good years NC years don't you think she would get recognized and offered? I smell a rat.
 
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#34
#34
I hate to say this because I have been having Holly Warlick's back but this loss is on coaching and the players. There was no excuse not to use our height advantage over them. We have a 6'6 post player 6'3 post player, and Basharra Graves who is 6'2 and plays like a beast. Instead we chose to take uncharacteristic jump shots for what. We got out hustled by a 6'3 280 slow post player from Vandy!! To me that's just despicable!!!!! I'm not saying our season is over but for us to keep losing to teams we know we shouldn't be losing to is unacceptable. We have got to get this on track and make some changes quick. If they don't play for full 40 mins make them run for that long during practice non-stop. There has to be something she can do to get her point across. Holly also needs to start looking at match ups and taking full advantage of the other team's weakness. I know the ref's were garbage but we cant put all the blame on the refs for our loss last night. That was all on players and coaches.
 
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#35
#35
We took 17 threes and madeÂ….3! You know, if you can't make three-point shots, please stop taking them. I doubt Warlick will ever be described as a tactical genius. It was another bad shooting night for Simmons--21 shots, 38 percent shooting (ugggh)--but Massengale also shot terribly, which really hurt as she's been our best player this year along with Harrison. Carter also has to play better. It would be nice if we could get more out of Russell, but given that she's a freshman that might be asking too much right now.
 
#36
#36
FWIW, a victory against Notre Dame will erase the Vandy/LSU losses PLUS we have rematches with Vandy/LSU and can avenge those losses head to head. So the GOOD news is that we are still in charge of our own destiny so to speak. But, dang, we REALLY need to start playing as we are capable and getting the most out of our players. We are supposed to be one of the best if not the best interior team in the country with Izzy, Graves, Russell, and occasionally Burdick. Between players not playing up to the level they are capable and coaches, for whatever reason, not putting in good line-ups, they haven't been producing.
 
#37
#37
No perimeter player should ever take 21 shots if they do the game plan is bad. Candace did not take that many shots when she played here. The strengths of this team are the point guard and the post players. We really need a player that can post high around the free throw line receive the pass and take it to the basket. We also need to penetrate the three point line before we pass to the post players can't be throwing those 15 foot passes. Finally the team has no plan they play street ball. Holly claims we worked long and hard on defense yet in two games this season 5'9" guard took the ball to the basket and made layups every time. Yesterday a 5'4" Vandy player did the same thing.
 
#38
#38
clkou said:
FWIW, a victory against Notre Dame will erase the Vandy/LSU losses PLUS we have rematches with Vandy/LSU and can avenge those losses head to head. So the GOOD news is that we are still in charge of our own destiny so to speak. But, dang, we REALLY need to start playing as we are capable and getting the most out of our players. We are supposed to be one of the best if not the best interior team in the country with Izzy, Graves, Russell, and occasionally Burdick. Between players not playing up to the level they are capable and coaches, for whatever reason, not putting in good line-ups, they haven't been producing.
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The sad truth may be that we are playing like we are capable of. We don't value the basketball, don't play hard for stretches of the game, and aren't smart in shot selection. If we were going to get this fixed there should already be some results. Tony LaRussa always said you are what your record says you are. We have lost two games against lesser opponents in league play. That is what we are.
 
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#39
#39
Sports works way differently from my experiences than what you've described. Sports is fluid. You play a game and win or lose, you learn and make adjustments and you're always trying to improve. I admit I am much more disappointed with this loss and it's likely indicative that this team hasn't turned a corner like I thought they have after starting 10-0 and supposedly having experienced, talented veteran players and leadership.

However, it doesn't mean that (1) they can't turn it around NOR does it mean (2) they aren't at least as good or better than last year.

Newsflash: we've lost to Vandy on the road in recent years. We've lost to Vandy in our heyday of national championships. It didn't happen often, but it happened. Vandy is not an easy gym to walk into and get a win. We RARELY get through SEC regular season and tournament play undefeated - that's ANY year. It sucks, but it's reality because the SEC is THE best women's conference in women's basketball year in and year out.

Last year we lost 2 SEC regular season games - one of those was to an unranked team on the road. One of our wins was an OT game on the road against an unranked. We were the #1 seed and lost in the semi-finals against eventual tournament winner TAM who was promptly bounced from the NCAA in the 2nd round against a worse ranked team.

My point is that these games are all close and competitive and one win or loss doesn't make or break your season. Which team would you rather be? Would you rather be Vandy? They don't look that impressive to me. Would you rather be KY? They lost at home by 10 to unranked Florida and another against SC. Would you rather be South Carolina? They lost to a team we beat and outside of KY have NO ranked wins. TAM? Also lost to an unranked team we beat plus two other random unranked teams. LSU? Two losses to unranked and their only ranked win was us.

So, if you're quick to trash the Lady Vols, be quick to trash every other team in the SEC because they're all in the same boat.
 
#40
#40
clkou said:
Sports works way differently from my experiences than what you've described. Sports is fluid. You play a game and win or lose, you learn and make adjustments and you're always trying to improve. I admit I am much more disappointed with this loss and it's likely indicative that this team hasn't turned a corner like I thought they have after starting 10-0 and supposedly having experienced, talented veteran players and leadership.

However, it doesn't mean that (1) they can't turn it around NOR does it mean (2) they aren't at least as good or better than last year.

Newsflash: we've lost to Vandy on the road in recent years. We've lost to Vandy in our heyday of national championships. It didn't happen often, but it happened. Vandy is not an easy gym to walk into and get a win. We RARELY get through SEC regular season and tournament play undefeated - that's ANY year. It sucks, but it's reality because the SEC is THE best women's conference in women's basketball year in and year out.

Last year we lost 2 SEC regular season games - one of those was to an unranked team on the road. One of our wins was an OT game on the road against an unranked. We were the #1 seed and lost in the semi-finals against eventual tournament winner TAM who was promptly bounced from the NCAA in the 2nd round against a worse ranked team.

My point is that these games are all close and competitive and one win or loss doesn't make or break your season. Which team would you rather be? Would you rather be Vandy? They don't look that impressive to me. Would you rather be KY? They lost at home by 10 to unranked Florida and another against SC. Would you rather be South Carolina? They lost to a team we beat and outside of KY have NO ranked wins. TAM? Also lost to an unranked team we beat plus two other random unranked teams. LSU? Two losses to unranked and their only ranked win was us.

So, if you're quick to trash the Lady Vols, be quick to trash every other team in the SEC because they're all in the same boat.
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Sorry but I think you are still living in the 1990s and 2000's. SEC is to be blunt garbage this year. The results this year have been lack luster. Outside of our victory over UNC (who is a completely different team now btw--DeShields is brining it) and UK's win over Baylor and Louisville the conference has done nothing in OOC. By team:

South Carolina - lost to UNC; best win USC
Texas A&M - lost to Texas, St. John's, Syracuse, Penn State. Best win to date...LSU
Vanderbilt - lost to Marquette and Duke. Best win:Tennessee.
Florida - lost to Virginia Tech, Florida State, Illinois State. Best win - UK.
LSU - lost to Louisville, N.C. State Have best out of conference wins outside of UK and TN against Michigan and Rutgers--but that stretches the definition of "best".
Kentucky - lost to Duke; Best Wins: Baylor and Louisville
Tennessee - lost to Stanford; Best Wins: UNC, Texas?? (again stretching def of best win).

We may get one, at most two into the elite 8 this year given the way people are playing right now. The ACC is without question the best conference.
 
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#42
#42
gule said:
the Acc? ha! that's bull.

hasn't Tn already spanked 3 acc teams?
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UNC, Georgia Tech, and Virginia...wooptie doo. If they held the ACC tournament today they would occupy seeds 6, 9, and 13.

The ACC has 3 of the top 6 in Duke, Maryland, and Notre Dame. So yeah in addition to UNC at #9 they are the best without question.
 
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#43
#43
SEC has 6 teams ranked in the top 25 ATM with teams like Florida, Missouri, and Georgia knocking on the door. The ACC also has 6 teams. So, let's call the top 6 a wash. What about the bottom 6?

Boston College, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Wake Forest
versus
Missouri, Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, and Ole Miss

It's probably close, but I'd definitely take the SEC plus I said "year in and year out". ACC does not have a recent or long term history of excellence in women's basketball compared to the SEC.
 
#44
#44
clkou said:
SEC has 6 teams ranked in the top 25 ATM with teams like Florida, Missouri, and Georgia knocking on the door. The ACC also has 6 teams. So, let's call the top 6 a wash. What about the bottom 6?

Boston College, Clemson, Pittsburgh, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Wake Forest
versus
Missouri, Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Arkansas, and Ole Miss

It's probably close, but I'd definitely take the SEC plus I said "year in and year out". ACC does not have a recent or long term history of excellence in women's basketball compared to the SEC.
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Well I think we have two points that need to be settled in the conference argument. (1) I don't really look at all 14 teams to determine--I'm more interested in the top and how you are impacting the national title race. You can have 14 teams of .500 beating the hell out of each other but that doesn't move the needle for me. (2) My argument is depending on recognizing teams in the new conferences they are in--meaning Notre Dame and Louisville go to the ACC.

Based on that here are the conference run down for Final Four appearances since 2009:

ACC 5
American 5
Pacific-12 5
Big 12 4
SEC 1

The SEC has had little to no influence on the national title picture since 2008 when UT last won it. The lone appearance belongs to Texas A&M who was a member of the Big 12 at the time.

If we go back to 2000 are the statistics bear out what you say:

SEC 13
ACC 12
American 11
Big 12 7
Big Ten 6
Pacific-12 6
Missouri Valley 1

A 5 year trend is a better barometer of where we are as a conference right now in my opinion
 
#46
#46
You can't just focus on the top teams. My whole point was that you don't get a night off in the SEC. That's why you see all these unranked wins in the SEC and losses. The middle teams are just as important as the top and bottom. Even Alabama managed a key win last year.
 
#47
#47
TennFan said:
Discipline is needed! It's what Pat did to her teams!
If they aren't disciplined, then they won't make sweet 16! This team is a possible Final 4 if they put their mind to it. Time to sit down and discuss where they want to be in late March. No questions about it! Enough said.
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That's a lot of wishful thinking :(
 
#49
#49
The Notre Dame game will be very big and telling. If we win that game, we've got a win over a #2 ranked team plus a third win over an ACC foe. If we lose, it's more "back to the drawing board".
 
#50
#50
armchair said:
How does Harrison, our best player, foul out in only TEN minutes of playing time??? That is unheard of! 5 fouls in 10 minutes--that's bizarre. Either she played dumb or the officials were terrible...Massengale couldn't score, Russell couldn't pick up the slack inside--and Vandy shot 12 more free throws we did, which was the difference in the game. Fouls determined the outcome of this game. Uggh...
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the refs did take over the game,which they should never do and Izzy did pick up the TF by hollering the F word at somebody,probably the Ref since they had called a couple of crap calls against her

I'm still wondering why Vandys center didn't foul out,she was getting away with a lot,that was being called against the Lady Vols

why Russell didn't play more?especially with the open drives to the basket by Vandy
 
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