Bad Coach or No Talent?

#251
#251
Volst53 said:
Dooley walked into a tough situation, but he still has to be accountable for his results.

Dooley might be the greatest football coach that ever lived, but might have the worst luck ever. I don't know how to quantify luck though, so that first part seems like a stretch.

Over the last 32 years, Tennessee has had good, bad, average, and maybe even great coaches. Tennessee has had good, bad, average, and great players over the same time, but in two years Dooley has had more blow out defeats ( 30 points or more) than the 30 years before his time.

If Dooley had Tennessee playing smart, disciplined, and tough football, I could handle the results of our record, but our style of play matches our record. That doesn't give some fans the greatest optimism.

That doesn't mean that they still don't love or cheer for Tennessee, but that they just have a different view point at the perceived direction of the program.
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I do agree with you on this point. My greatest disappointment from last year was that it appeared that the coaches (starting with CDD) and the players quit about halfway through it. It ended with the whole team simply mailing in the UK game with a bowl invitation on the line. I hold CDD responsible for all of that.
 
#252
#252
Spartacavolus said:
Yep. But most don't realize also that you don't have to be a great coach if you hire the right assistants who make you look good.
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Not that I would mention anyone, but one does come to mind in the SEC. His initials are Les Miles.
 
#253
#253
No luck to it.

He made choices. He made a choice to take on one of the most hapless programs in football when he went to LT. He improved their facilities, improved their roster, and got a shot at UT before results were in.

He took on a UT program with a roster about as bad as it could be. He knew that. He rolled the dice with his career when alot of other guys wouldn't. I am sure that he knows there is only so much sand in his hour glass.

There is no "luck" involved. Dooley may end up paying in large measure for the failures of Fulmer and Kiffin... but he chose to take the chance that he was good enough to fix it.

FTR, I could have told him he wouldn't get more than 3 years to show results regardless of how bad it truly was... and it WAS BAD. I KNEW that there would be idio... errr fans... clamouring for him to be fired if results weren't immediate even if he had a weak roster. However it was also easy to predict that even reasonable fans would demand some sign of life by year 3.

Honestly... I just hope it isn't gray after this year. I hope he doesn't win 7-8 games. I hope it is black or white and not some shade of gray.
 
#255
#255
EZE said:
This does not answer the question at all. All you do is complain that the results are substandard. Are the sub-standard results the product of coaching or lack of talent?

I have questions about CDD's coaching abilities, but I am willing to support him another year with the hopes that the record sees a big improvement this year to around 8-4.

The reasons I am willing to continue holding out hope for CDD are, number 1, because nobody can deny the utter mess he inherited. Complete turmoil. He has stabilized the program.

Number 2, the NFL draft does not lie because NFL teams draft based on ability (i.e., talnet). And, when the scouts have analyzed Tennessee seniors the past two seasons, they have not graded them as having much ability. It is hard to win a gunfight when armed with a plastic spoon, and that is basically what we and CDD have been facing the past two seasons. Numerous coaches have stated that superior talent trumps coaching nearly every time.

That situation is changing, and CDD has to be given credit for slowly restocking the talent on this team. We are about to see if he can turn that elevated talent into wins. I do not believe we have superior talent in the SEC yet, but we should have cometitive talent. A reasonable expectation IMO (barring another injury to Bray) would be around 8-4 while being competitive against the entire schedule.
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Great post. But I'm not sure LOGIC matters to some people on here. We should go 9-3 or 8-4 this year and another top 20 recruiting class next year, especially when the recruits get a look at the new training facility. It has been a tough few years but all will be well at UT in the future.
 
#257
#257
sjt18 said:
How many examples would you like of better coaches and players losing to inferior teams? And FTR, UK had several talented upperclassmen on D while UT's O was playing with a hobbled QB and essentially one SEC worthy WR.
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They lost to Vanderbilt by 30 points.
 
#259
#259
Incipient said:
They lost to Vanderbilt by 30 points.
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UT beat Vandy the week before... the better team won in that one. But the best team doesn't always win. Losses like UK happen. We don't like it when it happens to our team but you have to learn that it does and how to get over it.

If you can't live with it then you should stop watching sports.
 
#260
#260
sjt18 said:
UT beat Vandy the week before... the better team won in that one. But the best team doesn't always win. Losses like UK happen. We don't like it when it happens to our team but you have to learn that it does and how to get over it.

If you can't live with it then you should stop watching sports.
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Sure, upsets happen. Just don't try to prop this Kentucky team up as a grizzled, veteran bunch taking advantage of a young, untalented Tennessee team.
 
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#261
#261
hog88 said:
This is a question for all of the Negavols. Almost through 3 rounds of the NFL draft and no Vols selected. Bama had, what 4 or 5 in the 1st round, LSU 3 or 4, he!! Vandy had a player taken.

Is it Dooley's fault when we don't even have 3rd round guys?
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If I remember correctly, The reason why Fulmer was noted as such a recruiter was because of all the talent he had going into the NFL but nut much success for it. Compared to Spurrior and others anyway.
 
#262
#262
Incipient said:
Sure, upsets happen. Just don't try to prop this Kentucky team up as a grizzled, veteran bunch taking advantage of a young, untalented Tennessee team.
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Did you not watch the NFL draft? UK had two (2!) 6th rounders.

Full of grizzled, talented veterans, I say
 
#264
#264
sjt18 said:
How many examples would you like of better coaches and players losing to inferior teams?
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Just one. But it has to include UT as the inferior team with Derek Dooley as the head coach.

Cool? I just need this one example. I asked earlier, but I never heard back from you. I'm sure you just inadvertently overlooked the question. These things happen.
 
#265
#265
knoxvols1 said:
If I remember correctly, The reason why Fulmer was noted as such a recruiter was because of all the talent he had going into the NFL but nut much success for it. Compared to Spurrior and others anyway.
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I read this eight times, and I still have no idea what it means.
 
#272
#272
kidbourbon said:
Just the past two years is all we're looking at. The example -- as I specified in my post -- has to be one where Derek Dooley was the head coach. Try to pay attention.
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I don't care what you are looking at. I asked a question. Either answer it or don't.
 
#273
#273
There are games I see that make me think that Dooley does have what it takes...LSU 2010 (yes, even in spite of the absolutely horrendous mistake at the end that cost us a victory) and Cincinnati 2011...but then I see how we played against Kentucky and I'm left questioning whether those beatdowns at the hands of the Arkansases and Alabamas of the conference represent more than just a talent disparity.

I can sit back and say the only game we lost we shouldn't have was Kentucky last year. Getting housed by Oregon, Alabama two years in a row, Arkansas, and Georgia in 2010 are all understandable. Oregon, Alabama, and Arkansas were just far, far too talented for us to compete with. Georgia in 2010 followed the most agonizing loss in years and the team had its will sapped.

Florida last year was understandable because we lost our star player and it took us too long to climb back out of it. Once we got our stuff together we made a game out of it, but it was too little and too late. South Carolina was understandable -- we would have beaten them had Hunter and Bray been healthy, I have no doubt. But all of the luck has gone against us lately.

And really, last year, people were saying 6-6 or 7-5 at best IF EVERYONE STAYED HEALTHY. That was before we lost Janzen Jackson, Justin Hunter, and Tyler Bray, and we still should have finished 6-6. But that Kentucky game just sticks out like a sore thumb. That game spoke volumes -- we were better than Kentucky by every objective measure, we were playing for a bowl berth and a chance to make something out of a dreadful season, and we blew it.
 
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