War in Ukraine

#77,926
#77,926
NorthDallas40 said:
Sadly for you much to your chagrin Ukraine is choosing this fight. And contrary to the stooge idiotic narrative nobody is forcing them to fight. And finally you always seem to forget that this could end today if the orcs would pull back with their own sovereign territory boundaries and respect the sovereign boundaries they affirmed prior to their 2014 invasion
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with how tough he talks on some things it always amazes me how he treats this one particular war.
 
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#77,927
#77,927
LouderVol said:
except we don't have those new weapon systems in enough numbers to matter. there is a big back log currently, and its only getting worse, and we don't have the fall back stockpiles we would need because we are giving them away. Its not like we were stockpiling just because we didn't have a dump to throw them away. we were stockpiling them because we knew we would need them in a big war. a big future war could still use those same rifles. oh yeah, its not like we are flush with money either, 34 trillion and counting.

Its not like an M16 or M4 stops working just because we have a new XM7 we are adopting. the weapons of yesterday are very capable of fighting the next war. Ukraine is a great example of that, there are freaking pre-WW1 Maxims being used. our stuff from the 80s has to be at least as capable as that.

the point of replacing those Cold War platforms was that we were able to do it on our own time, and we weren't throwing away the old stuff incase we ran out of the new or the new didn't work.
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We are obviously making a tradeoff with quality vs quantity. Will we have enough quality weapons to overcome their limited quantity? Who knows. Given the current state of our foes, that seems likely, but you never know until the **** hits the fan. I will say, that drones will move the needle towards quantity in way we haven't seen since the Cold War. Our drones will likely be of higher quality than our peers, but it is also a numbers game. Unfortunately for our foes, our investment in battlefield networking across multiple weapon systems will lead to much more devastating efficiency for our drones.

LouderVol said:
I am really curious about what systems you think we couldn't use in the next global combined arms war?
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It's more about the type of conflict. The Cold War was designed and planned to be a continental land war of attrition. Ukraine is currently fighting the war NATO prepared for 40 years ago. Luckily, for us and Ukraine, the Russians didn't really advance much in those 40 years aside from air defense platforms. Thus, we can defend Europe and dramatically weaken the Russian threat with our outdated and mothballed Cold War assets without risking American lives. A major, major geopolitical win for the West.

The vast majority of those weapon systems (tanks, artillery, IFV's, etc.) will be completely useless in a war against our current biggest advisory, China. A potential war with China over Twain will be fought via the naval power, air power, drones, and missiles/anti-missiles platforms.
 
#77,929
#77,929
LouderVol said:
with how tough he talks on some things it always amazes me how he treats this one particular war.
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Oh I’m not shocked anymore at all. The only thing his is consistent at is his anti US stance on everything and his pro dictator/despot stance on anything or anyone enabling Russian policy or aggression advances. He’s a demonstrated hypocrite it is what it is.
 
#77,930
#77,930
LSU-SIU said:
No, the correct narrative is Russia is weak economically, politically, and militarily so they are unable to threaten NATO as the Ukraine almost has them destroyed.

News at 5: Every country spies. Shocker. If they aren't spying, I would tell Putin wtf is wrong with you?
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Reading the article prior to responding is beneficial.

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#77,931
#77,931
PKT_VOL said:
We are obviously making a tradeoff with quality vs quantity. Will we have enough quality weapons to overcome their limited quantity? Who knows. Given the current state of our foes, that seems likely, but you never know until the **** hits the fan. I will say, that drones will move the needle towards quantity in way we haven't seen since the Cold War. Our drones will likely be of higher quality than our peers, but it is also a numbers game. Unfortunately for our foes, our investment in battlefield networking across multiple weapon systems will lead to much more devastating efficiency for our drones.



It's more about the type of conflict. The Cold War was designed and planned to be a continental land war of attrition. Ukraine is currently fighting the war NATO prepared for 40 years ago. Luckily, for us and Ukraine, the Russians didn't really advance much in those 40 years aside from air defense platforms. Thus, we can defend Europe and dramatically weaken the Russian threat with our outdated and mothballed Cold War assets without risking American lives. A major, major geopolitical win for the West.

The vast majority of those weapon systems (tanks, artillery, IFV's, etc.) will be completely useless in a war against our current biggest advisory, China. A potential war with China over Twain will be fought via the naval power, air power, drones, and missiles/anti-missiles platforms.
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Common sense would show you we don't. the more technological/complex/costly something is the more likely it will break, and maintenance it will need to make it functional. So now we are staring at a stockpile that is already not enough, and secondly we will burn through faster with all the replacements we need for finicky/smart weapons.

a US/China war over Taiwan would never stay isolated to Taiwan. Blowing up the Chinese navy and air force isn't going to win us a war. North Korea isn't going to sit on the side lines; who knows what other regional partners, with land borders to China, will join in or seek their own claims. Taiwan is a decent sized island, with a pretty good population, there will be plenty of ground fighting there regardless unless the Taiwanese just fold. If we just ignore the land warfare aspect of that conflict we might as well not fight it.

and the problem with your argument is that the same issue exists for our air and naval power. our stuff is too expensive, complicated, and long lead times to waste. Could we even afford to aid Taiwan? how much of our air/sea assets are fine giving away?

and its not the only conflict we are facing. Israel vs Iran would definitely be a ground war. what happens if we get drug into another Kosovo, or frankly back into Kosovo. This is one of the problem with being the world police, we can't just focus our war efforts on a specific type of fighting. both from a land/sea/air standpoint as well as future wars of drones/1980s land wars. we face all of those threats.
 
#77,932
#77,932
BeardedVol said:
Reading the article prior to responding is beneficial.

View attachment 635260
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So what?

The U.S. has military assets assisting others to attack Russian military and civilian sites with U.S. equipment . So what?

F the Ukraine, F Germany and F the EU. They all need to get into the Ukraine ditches and take a bunch of FABs to the head because I'm paying for it and I demand a good show.
 
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#77,933
#77,933
LouderVol said:
Common sense would show you we don't. the more technological/complex/costly something is the more likely it will break, and maintenance it will need to make it functional. So now we are staring at a stockpile that is already not enough, and secondly we will burn through faster with all the replacements we need for finicky/smart weapons.

a US/China war over Taiwan would never stay isolated to Taiwan. Blowing up the Chinese navy and air force isn't going to win us a war. North Korea isn't going to sit on the side lines; who knows what other regional partners, with land borders to China, will join in or seek their own claims. Taiwan is a decent sized island, with a pretty good population, there will be plenty of ground fighting there regardless unless the Taiwanese just fold. If we just ignore the land warfare aspect of that conflict we might as well not fight it.

and the problem with your argument is that the same issue exists for our air and naval power. our stuff is too expensive, complicated, and long lead times to waste. Could we even afford to aid Taiwan? how much of our air/sea assets are fine giving away?
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In fairness, that's the tradeoff with advanced systems. It's a feature not a bug. Just look at the history of military technology. It becomes ever more complex because the trade off of efficiency verse complexity is worth it. Now, over time, previously complex systems become more simplified as manufacturing and engineering technology catch up.

You can see this via guns, tanks, etc. My favorite at the moment is the B2 stealth. The coating on the B2 is notoriously delicate, high maintenance, and sensitive to changes temperature, humidity, and the elements. In fact, the B2 has to stay in climate-controlled hangers for this reason. Would the rest of the world have made this tradeoff to have the B2? Of course, the juice is absolutely worth the squeeze. Now, from a manufacturing and engineering standpoint, a new ceramic-based stealth was engineered and manufactured for the B21 that is durable and made the same system (radar-absorbing material) simplified eliminating the need for extensive maintenance and climate-controlled hangers.

LouderVol said:
and its not the only conflict we are facing. Israel vs Iran would definitely be a ground war. what happens if we get drug into another Kosovo, or frankly back into Kosovo. This is one of the problem with being the world police, we can't just focus our war efforts on a specific type of fighting. both from a land/sea/air standpoint as well as future wars of drones/1980s land wars. we face all of those threats.
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Being the world police is a separate problem. However, it is worth nothing that the US-lead order has ushered in peace and prosperity across the global in ways humanity has never enjoyed.
 
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#77,934
#77,934
PKT_VOL said:
Being the world police is a separate problem. However, it is worth nothing that the US-lead order has ushered in peace and prosperity across the global in ways humanity has never enjoyed.
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#77,935
#77,935
PKT_VOL said:
In fairness, that's the tradeoff with advanced systems. It's a feature not a bug. Just look at the history of military technology. It becomes ever more complex because the trade off of efficiency verse complexity is worth it. Now, over time, previously complex systems become more simplified as manufacturing and engineering technology catch up.

You can see this via guns, tanks, etc. My favorite at the moment is the B2 stealth. The coating on the B2 is notoriously delicate, high maintenance, and sensitive to changes temperature, humidity, and the elements. In fact, the B2 has to stay in climate-controlled hangers for this reason. Would the rest of the world have made this tradeoff to have the B2? Of course, the juice is absolutely worth the squeeze. Now, from a manufacturing and engineering standpoint, a new ceramic-based stealth was engineered and manufactured for the B21 that is durable and made the same system (radar-absorbing material) simplified eliminating the need for extensive maintenance and climate-controlled hangers.



Being the world police is a separate problem. However, it is worth nothing that the US-lead order has ushered in peace and prosperity across the global in ways humanity has never enjoyed.
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its not a separate problem when its the reason we are tied up in Ukraine.

just like it can't be separated from our financial issues.
 
#77,936
#77,936
LSU-SIU said:
So what?

The U.S. has military assets assisting others to attack Russian military and civilian sites with U.S. equipment . So what?

F the Ukraine, F Germany and F the EU. They all need to get into the Ukraine ditches and take a bunch of FABs to the head because I'm paying for it and I demand a good show.
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Let us all know when US agents are caught in a CSTO country, plotting to attack a Russian military base.

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#77,937
#77,937
PKT_VOL said:
That's for Ukrainians to decide. Currently, they think their country, people, way of life, and a Russian-free future are worth fighting and dying for.
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They are being press ganged and snatched off the streets. The more hardened nationalists joined a long time ago.

It's wicked to send these young (and old) men to die so that the United States doesn't have to send troops. If the US wants to kill Russians and weaken them, they need to do it themselves.
 
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#77,938
#77,938
Rasputin_Vol said:
They are being press ganged and snatched off the streets. The more hardened nationalists joined a long time ago.

It's wicked to send these young (and old) men to die so that the United States doesn't have to send troops. If the US wants to kill Russians and weaken them, they need to do it themselves.
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as usual you are getting your assumptions wrong. Ukraine isn't fighting at the behest of the US in order to kill some Russians. Ukraine is fighting because Russia attacked them, the US is only involved because of that.

No Russian invasion, no dead Ukrainians or Russians.
No US aid, more dead Ukrainians, and fewer dead Russians.

Removal and stoppage of US aid, which I am in favor of, doesn't stop the suffering. It just shifts it from being shared unequally, to only one side suffering.
 
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#77,939
#77,939
BeardedVol said:
Let us all know when US agents are caught in a CSTO country, plotting to attack a Russian military base.

View attachment 635270
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They're not in the United States. Who gives a **** about CSTO country. The United states is currently in Syria for no purpose other than to kill and steal. So what? The United States is in the Ukraine planning, plotting, and giving weapons to kill Russians. So what?
😂
 
#77,944
#77,944
BeardedVol said:
Which a monumental feat unto itself given the vast quantity of nonsense that Ras has posted.
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Nobody is going to understand unless you attach a bar chart.

Don't worry I'm sure the Ukrainians are going to go well past Moscow and right into Serbia by the end of the month. Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country, and they only have shovels. Relax.



I'm sure the Russians are shaking with NATO with their 10 rounds of artillery waiting for them that produced today, Putin is probably crying somewhere dying of cancer for the 4th time.

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#77,948
#77,948
PKT_VOL said:
Being the world police is a separate problem. However, it is worth nothing that the US-lead order has ushered in peace and prosperity across the global in ways humanity has never enjoyed.
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You mean like in Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Palestine, and (soon) Taiwan?
 
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#77,949
#77,949
LSU-SIU said:
Nobody is going to understand unless you attach a bar chart.

Don't worry I'm sure the Ukrainians are going to go well past Moscow and right into Serbia by the end of the month. Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country, and they only have shovels. Relax.



I'm sure the Russians are shaking with NATO with their 10 rounds of artillery waiting for them that produced today, Putin is probably crying somewhere dying of cancer for the 4th time.

2e873725-8b3e-4a35-9b6c-8eaa47e6b4d4_text.gif
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"2nd best army in Ukraine"
 
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