Recruiting Football Talk VII

How? If anything, signing with a school would drastically increase a kid's NIL valuation. Assuming by NIL value you mean "The value of their name, image, and likeness". If you mean NIL as a stand in for their pay-to-play market value... That's the number that goes down after they have already signed.

Which is the NCAA's primary point. A point I agree with. There are two major problems:

1) State laws on the books that make enforcing that rules against NIL on kids before they have signed illegal. Because of this, even if I agree with the principle, the NCAA does not have the ability to violate state law in pursuit of its rules.

2) A system where everyone is guilty between 2021-2023. So the NCAA can just arbitrarily pick and choose who they want to apply enforcement to. So because the NCAA had zero foresight and made it the wild west for two years, they get rewarded with a free pass to go after any school by retroactively applying current rules (that violate state law anyway)?

The combination is obviously untenable. It was always going to end this way. It was just a matter of what state/school was going to end it.

It's a shame. The idea that we are a billion dollar sport with personnel costs being paid out by people working 9-5's like the Volunteer Club is absurd. But we are here because the adults in the room (NCAA and others) are dumb ****s.
I think you're wrong per the market. Each collective says, "I think you could make $X in this market, so I am willing to invest $Y in your rights."


The athlete can compare offers and play them off each other for his improvement. Even the TN AG used this example.

For instance, from a strictly NIL/Marketing perspective, which market do you think would offer the best exposure and opportunities? UT/Knoxville, or, say, Georgia Southern? Notre Dame? or UT Chatt?

You're promoting an inability to test market evaluations and contractual negotiations before they've assigned themselves to a market. That's asinine.
 
Also:

Nico plane ride == impermissible recruiting: Spyre on record denying.
Spyre deal == recruiting to Tennessee: Spyre has contract verbiage to refute.
I think you put too much stock in the contract verbiage. Anyone can say they're doing something for one reason. Even in a court of law that might not hold up if there's enough evidence Spyre wouldn't have signed him if he'd gone to Bama.

But especially in the court of the NCAA, that won't hold much weight.

I think the better outlook for us is that there were no rules in place that were broken. All the alleged rules we broke were made after the fact.
 

I used to have a few of those in my big tanks as a teenager, they are so aggressive they’ll try to fit anything they can into their mouths. Idiots in the Deep South ( mostly FL) started turning them loose in local waterways and they are a real problem for native species.

There is an Eagle nest cam in Naples, and the pond adjacent to the property is full of armored catfish ( Plecos). Another non- native fish that is all over FL now.
 
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I think you put too much stock in the contract verbiage. Anyone can say they're doing something for one reason. Even in a court of law that might not hold up if there's enough evidence Spyre wouldn't have signed him if he'd gone to Bama.

But especially in the court of the NCAA, that won't hold much weight.

I think the better outlook for us is that there were no rules in place that were broken. All the alleged rules we broke were made after the fact.
16 year old son has no curfew for Saturday nights starting Jan 1.

Feb 1st, you make a curfew of 11:45 PM...............Parent punishes said son for the 4 Saturdays he broke curfew.



Yea. That works.
 
The NCAA is cherry-picking programs and trying to selectively enforce vague guidelines retroactively. That is a very rickety three-legged stool. They'll be buried in legal paperwork with insufficient resources to investigate and defend.
Words that will win a court case every time:

Arbitrary and capricious


Of which the NCAA is currently guilty of, and we haven’t even gone there yet. We will win and have several avenues we can take. We just chose the nuclear bomb option first. Next is the cluster bomb. Either way, we win.
 
The NCAA is cherry-picking programs and trying to selectively enforce vague guidelines retroactively. That is a very rickety three-legged stool. They'll be buried in legal paperwork with insufficient resources to investigate and defend.
I'm so glad the NCAA is about to reach the Find Out stage. They have ****ed around unimpeded for way too long.
 
16 year old son has no curfew for Saturday nights starting Jan 1.

Feb 1st, you make a curfew of 11:45 PM...............Parent punishes said son for the 4 Saturdays he broke curfew.



Yea. That works.
Might as well go back and do a replay review of Gafney's touchdown "catch" in 2000 since they added instant replay in '06.
 
I think we all know why they chose Tennessee.......come on people. All this takes place after Saban retires. And it just so happens that it's about the QB that he went all in on in 23 but lost the recruiting battle over NIL. This is all Saban folks
“Went all in on” AFTER doing the same for Arch Manning. He got sour old man because they used to wait for him to settle. Heupel identified Nico early as THE GUY and that had to be done for the money to work. He would’ve received that deal (or more) elsewhere…but Heupel won the family.
 
Words that will win a court case every time:

Arbitrary and capricious


Of which the NCAA is currently guilty of, and we haven’t even gone there yet. We will win and have several avenues we can take. We just chose the nuclear bomb option first. Next is the cluster bomb. Either way, we win.
They'll be papered to death. It's harder to lead than follow. Wait until other programs decide enough is enough and follow Tennessee's lead.
 
There needs to be an oversight org that is/has checks and balances. The NCAA==the Universities==The NCAA. There are no checks. There are no balances. The fox is running the hen house. Any structure going forward must build in oversight of the colluding/enforcement members.

What Spyre did with Nico is literally the blueprint of how every other collective structured themselves and write contracts. If they enforce against UT/Spyre, they have to attack every other program/collective in the system.

Their claims against Spyre/UT per inducement are apparently factually wrong, and Spyre quotes the contract to prove it. No reason to confess wrongdoing there, IMO.

Their claims that Spyre/jet/Nico was improper recruiting is apparently factually untrue, according to Spyre and Knoxville reporting. No reason to confess wrongdoing there, IMO.

If we were on the wrong side of any current rules, it is morally bankrupt to charge us for what was not illegal at the time. No reason to confess wrongdoing there, IMO.

UT is facing repeat offender status. Why on earth would they roll over and accept it? It'd hammer the program and set it back another 10 years. Just to appease an immoral, totalitarian system that was created to horde money and prevent paying the cash cows?
I want to focus on two items:

1) What Spyre/UT knew to be true at that time.

2) Immoral totalitarian organization.

Did Spyre and UT vet everything they did at that time, through a legal team? If as they say, we were the standard bearers to NIL and Collectives, how then does it follow to punish just us - when as you say everyone else follows Spyre? It is a fact that the NCAA has lauded us as prototype for NCAA cooperation. How then, does it follow that said group(s) can be punished; again? My point is that UTK is singled out. It is being harassed, doubly because a struggling entity with too broad a paint brush feels slighted, feels irrelevant, and is too proud to admit its wrong doing, and complete and total failure, period. End of story:

2- That broad paint brush, with its venerable leader have too long sat on a throne like a King, giving his opinion with too many rules or structure.
And absolutely helter skelter enforcement. How can you be a well funded, respected organization who defines itself as in support of student athletes, and supporting their NIL? If you are constantly changing the rules after the fact. That includes punitive measures, to a school that followed the rules at the time it happened!

This is nothing short of gaslighting, or attempt to shift blame in a reverse manner. Tennessee has done everything it can within reason to open dialogue. What else can it do?

Shifting that blame, and scrambling the jets to enforcement are weak measures. It is my hope that a Court will step back and do right thing and support athletes' rights.

NCAA couldve easily looked other way, or, actually said 'TN dont do that again, bc it is wrong NOW.' 'We appreciate you helping to define and stabilize something we failed to help standardize, and now its caused a mess.' 'Consider this slap on the wrist, but if it happens again there will be repercussions.'

There is little logic to any of this. And it is going to be ugly for all CS.
 
I have seen several people referencing that the Nico flight was from Sprye and Sprye is not UT. The NCAA is saying Sprye IS a UT booster. That's why they are saying a UT Booster paid for the private jet to bring a recruit to knoxville.

The only way to change the NCAA mind on this is to probably sue them (Sprye and/or UT) and win in court. However if the current TN AG suit is successful, the NCAA won't be able to punish anyone due to any NIL rules anyway.
 
I think you put too much stock in the contract verbiage. Anyone can say they're doing something for one reason. Even in a court of law that might not hold up if there's enough evidence Spyre wouldn't have signed him if he'd gone to Bama.

But especially in the court of the NCAA, that won't hold much weight.

I think the better outlook for us is that there were no rules in place that were broken. All the alleged rules we broke were made after the fact.
Too much stock in contract verbiage in a court of law? That's the primary. And I'd love to hear the type of evidence that may be available to prove the negative per Spyre upholding a contract they signed. Maybe the NCAA can produce emails of Spyre communicating to CJH that they wouldn't pay if he didn't come?

I'm not sure we'd see such quick and strong responses from UT and Spyre if that were the case.

And the court of NCAA? OK. Maybe I'm wrong. But seeing the Chancellor's response, and considering that the state AG is dragging the NCAA back to court on federal anti-trust suit, I give less and less turds about the "court" of the NCAA, and more and more about the ACTUAL courts. (Where contract verbiage carries weight and the NCAA has outside oversight that prevents them from dropping hammers on suspicions that they can't prove. ... Or even dropping hammers on subjects they have no business making rules about, for that matter.)

The NCAA is a capricious, outdated paper tiger that is about to be put out of our misery.

I'll wring my hands about them when given a reason to. Your perspective may vary. 👍
 
After reading thoughts on the LS.

I'm starting to think through what ifs. What if there is no NCAA?

Who will take the mantle of rules enforcement? There HAS to be some sort of agreed upon oversight.

SEC cant even agree on a scheduling format.

Before this lawsuit guess i'd always hated the NCAA. But was ambivalent to the possibly of dissolution.

What next? Should Washington step in with legislation governing enforcement? Seems like most logical step.

Should the States, er the conferences attempt to Unionize, er galvanize behind one Supreme Leader, er Emporer, er Commissioner?

There is too much money at stake. Athletes livlihood are at stake. Universities bottom lines. And then the folks who make a living working and supporting these Universities.

NCAA should look in the mirror as ask the pertinent questions, such as 'is what i'm doing best for this sport?'

'Is it more about us, or, student athlete?'

'Are Tennessee's transgressions truly that abhorrent, or, are we really just wanting to save face?'

'Should we just admit we're wrong?'

The outcome of this lawsuit, and the glacial impact it has dredging CFB along with it will have a detrimental effect. No way we go back to any shred of normalcy.

It is my sincere hope that someone with some sort of ability to make change will smack NCAA on the nose with newspaper and say 'no'. 'Bad boy.' And that they will make necessary changes. Unfortunately, being honest I dont think their collective egos will allow that.

TN will have to leave the NCAA.
Conferences self-govern and their commissioners represent them on a committee. They burn the antiquated, unwieldy NCAA manual and have an anal retentive free agreement setting basic rules…aka Constitution. Billions of reasons it works.
 
I have seen several people referencing that the Nico flight was from Sprye and Sprye is not UT. The NCAA is saying Sprye IS a UT booster. That's why they are saying a UT Booster paid for the private jet to bring a recruit to knoxville.

The only way to change the NCAA mind on this is to probably sue them (Sprye and/or UT) and win in court. However if the current TN AG suit is successful, the NCAA won't be able to punish anyone due to any NIL rules anyway.
If push came to shove, I suspect Spyre would sue the NCAA, or perhaps UT and Spyre. It's not just about how UT can "College Football". It's about how Spyre can conduct business as sports management.

I think NCAA was blind to the arrogance of that identification--defining how private corporations can do business.
 
The NCAA is saying a person can't negotiate their salary until after they hire with a specific company. Yeah.. that won't last long in the courts.
Lol. So that's completely wrong. But I do think it highlights why the NCAA is screwed. Everyone has already accepted that NIL is a vehicle for pay to play. Everyone but the NCAA.
 
I have seen several people referencing that the Nico flight was from Sprye and Sprye is not UT. The NCAA is saying Sprye IS a UT booster. That's why they are saying a UT Booster paid for the private jet to bring a recruit to knoxville.

The only way to change the NCAA mind on this is to probably sue them (Sprye and/or UT) and win in court. However if the current TN AG suit is successful, the NCAA won't be able to punish anyone due to any NIL rules anyway.
The temporary restraining order against the NCAA will be by Tuesday Feb 6, unless the case gets delayed.
 

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I don’t know if it has been discussed here but Adam Sparks was on Basilio yesterday. He said that we shouldn’t be surprised if we wake up and find that the NCAA has suspended Nico. It will likely be their next move. Then he said that we shouldn’t be surprised to see Tennessee give them the double Gaulden’s and play him anyway.
I believe we should know one way or the other by February 6th, right? That’s the date for the TRO in the lawsuit. Unless that’s for something else and doesn’t block the NCAA from being able to do make him ineligible. I’m not a lawyer but I thought the TRO requested was kind of an all encompassing “you can’t enforce **** in our state right now when it comes to NIL” type TRO 😂
 
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The debate is nuanced, but the primary issue is enforcement is arbitrary and political. Tennessee and it's collectives were running harder than most groups. Even pushing into spaces others never thought of or might have thought off limits. In the absence of hard rules though, selectively picking on some teams over practices many are using is pure crap. That selective enforcement has always been my beef.

When none of the kids were supposed to get money and entire teams were driving chargers 😒 🙄 😐 😑 😕 🤔
 

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