Historians rank top Presidents on Leadership

[OrangeYankee]

Global super power!

There is no denying that WWII really ushered us into the top spot in global politics. However, I think that happened despite of FDR not because. I'm really not going to go on, because there have been worse POTS'es than him. I just don't think FDR was the god among men that a lot of people make him out to be, and right now it urks me even more, because I get the same vibes with President Obama. What's even more scary is all the talk of "hope" about him as well, what did he also promise "change" as well?

 

[OrangeEmpire]

There is no denying that WWII really ushered us into the top spot in global politics. However, I think that happened despite of FDR not because. I'm really not going to go on, because there have been worse POTS'es than him. I just don't think FDR was the god among men that a lot of people make him out to be, and right now it urks me even more, because I get the same vibes with President Obama. What's even more scary is all the talk of "hope" about him as well, what did he also promise "change" as well?

FDR was a god among men?

I hold the presidents to a very high standard.....

There are only three worth mentioning....... Washington, Lincoln and FDR.

The rest are as about as important as the local street hooker.

 

[gsvol]

HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The man didn't want to be president toward the latter end of his life but he felt the higher calling to finish the job.
How many jerks have been president that would have done that?[/B][/COLOR]

Yeah right, he gave America hope like Joe Stalin gave us the equality of mankind.

I dunno... FDR did more damage than good over the long haul and the short. He spent like crazy to dig us out of a hole and it did not work. Had WWII not happened that necessitated the need for production, I'm not sure that we would have ever recovered from his "programs." And, even if he was good, the problem still remains that a good majority of his programs were the start of a precedence that instilled the mindset of entitlement and it's the government's responsibility that is absolutely desecrating us now. LBJ (who was a mentor of his from what I've read and seen), further worsened those with the great crock of lies otherwise known as the "great society."

I fear we, as a society, will never learn the lesson that Government cannot ever solve or is capable of running a fraction of the services we've allowed them to take over and administer. Social Security is a great one. The return on the investment of over 10% of your lifetime's income should be the cause of outrage, and should have been for decades.

In 1976 during the bicentenial celebrations we awarded certain medals for emigrants to the USA for achievements, there was one award for the one who had been the highest achiever and in his address to the American nation, said; "My greatest fear is that we will repeat the mistakes of the past."

Presently we are faced with an administration in the executive branch, a like majority in both houses and a liberal judicial branch, that would follow the ideology or FDR, and his policies were a complete failure.

As far as the whole Civil War and Abraham Lincoln thing. The main factor in dispute was slavery, but at the heart of it was the fact that the Feds wanted to dictate to States what they could or could not do (IE make Slavery Legal). The cause (slavery) was noble, but the costs were so far reaching and detrimental. The entire foundation of what our Nation was built on and how it was supposed to work, was completely shifted at that point.

The main factor was that the north wanted the south to pay 4/5 of the taxes, plain and simple, it wasn't about slavery, we had already banned the importation of slaves a quarter of a century before that.

You fast forward to now, and we in Tennessee are getting ready to see our money go to a State (California) that should be allowed to fall on its face for being far to overbearing on the private sector, and making the stupid decision to becoming beholden to "Labor" in all public services. Why? Because the Federal Government rules it all now, and there is hardly a thing we can say about it anymore.

The only right we have as citizens is to vote for or against those who would represent us in Washington, we should obviously be a bit more careful as to for whom we would vote.

The policy you advocate was tried by Hoover, it didn't work. FDR gave the people hope, there was very little when he took office.

FDR didn't give anything.

FDR may have produced an imaginary carrot to chase but in the end there was no carrot to be had.

I'm not sure I follow. The only thing I advocated up there was that I do think things would be better if the States had more control of their own destiny.

Edit: To follow this up, Hoover is the exact opposite of what I advocate in general. He was a progressive, and was for more regulation and government intervention into our daily lives. I'm not laying blame on FDR for the depression, but he sure didn't help things either. And my main point was, even if he was the savior of the nation and was solely responsible for getting us out, the long term effects of his programs have been detrimental (mainly social security in my mind). And I don't want a President to give me "Hope" I want him to give me leadership and try to oversee the navigation out of a tough time be it economical, social, or through a war.

Hoover was mistaken in that more government control would alleviate our problems, as long as we didn't address the basic problem, which was a central banking system that controlled inflation and deflation.

FDR never did one thing other that advancing America into a situation where it is a slave to the international money powers.

FDR was a god among men?

I hold the presidents to a very high standard.....

There are only three worth mentioning....... Washington, Lincoln and FDR.The rest are as about as important as the local street hooker.

FDR was a dud, his economic policies were every bit the failure of his protege and college Joe Stalin whom he greatly admired.

When you talk of socialist pimps, you should always mention FDR, he deserves to be considered on the lowest rung of American presidents.

Now if you want to consider him among the great socialists of the world, then he should have a place like Lenin's tomb and the like.

 

[gsvol]

I suppose you were all for camels replacing horses during the Civil War?

I forgot to answer that question.

They didn't bother to consult with me on that.

But I do have one of these;

Springfield Trapdoor, 45/70 Government,
accurate to a 1,000 yards.

(wow, was that first picture big or what?)

And a pre-civil war camel saddle manufactured by
Liberty Camel Saddle Company USA.

The one pictured above is similar but not
identical to mine, mine has straight posts
on top at each end, hand carved images of
camels, and leather seat pad.

Robyn Davidson has always been one of my heros.

Australia experimented with using camels but eventually
turned them all loose in the outback, I first read about
Robyn when she went and caught some of those feral
camels with the 'crossing Australia' adventure in mind.

She did most all of it on her own but had the help of an
aboriginal Pitjantjara, named Eddie, who guided her
across much of the worst desert and she said without
him and his knowledge of the desert and of the places
to find water, she may not have made it.

Here is a review of her 1996 book, 'Desert Places'.
(be sure not to overlook page 125.)

Here is one a review of one of her essays, published on my birthday two years ago.

You have to be careful around camels you know.

 

[gsvol]

I forgot to answer that question.

They didn't bother to consult with me on that.

But I do have one of these;

Springfield Trapdoor, 45/70 Government,
accurate to a 1,000 yards.

(wow, was that first picture big or what?)

And a pre-civil war camel saddle manufactured by
Liberty Camel Saddle Company USA.

The one pictured above is similar but not
identical to mine, mine has straight posts
on top at each end, hand carved images of
camels, and leather seat pad.

Robyn Davidson has always been one of my heros.

Australia experimented with using camels but eventually
turned them all loose in the outback, I first read about
Robyn when she went and caught some of those feral
camels with the 'crossing Australia' adventure in mind.

She did most all of it on her own but had the help of an
aboriginal Pitjantjara, named Eddie, who guided her
across much of the worst desert and she said without
him and his knowledge of the desert and of the places
to find water, she may not have made it.

Here is a review of her 1996 book, 'Desert Places'.
(be sure not to overlook page 125.)

Here is one a review of one of her essays, published on my birthday two years ago, ‘No Fixed Address: Nomads and the Fate of the Planet’.

You have to be careful around camels you know.

 

[therealUT]

I agree. Lincoln, Washington, and FDR are the 3 greatest Presidents because they faced the 3 greatest challenges of any President; the American Revolution, Civil War, and WWII. Without their success the country as we know it wouldn't exist.

Washington "faced" the Revolution, as President? Interesting.

Washington was great, militarily, in his ability to pull certain personalities together through the Revolution. As POTUS, I do not recall Washington doing anything that would either be considered great or disastrous.

Lincoln gave a much weaker Confederate opponent every opportunity to win the Civil War. Lincoln did two great things during the Civil War: turn the issue, on an international scale, to one of righteousness versus slavery; give US Grant control of the military operation. Had Lincoln been a more competent leader from the beginning (to refuse to admit growth as a leader from infantile to extremely capable is pure ignorance) tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of American lives would have been spared.

Like Lincoln, FDR was given ample opportunities to pre-empt the overt loss of American lives in his tenure. I cannot imagine any POTUS not having been able to come out of WWII, as we did, after having been dragged into the fight. It would take history's greatest dolt to fail with men like McArthur, Patton, Eisenhower, Bradley, Halsey, King, etc. leading their military.

 

[WA_Vol]

Washington "faced" the Revolution, as President? Interesting.

Washington was great, militarily, in his ability to pull certain personalities together through the Revolution. As POTUS, I do not recall Washington doing anything that would either be considered great or disastrous.

Lincoln gave a much weaker Confederate opponent every opportunity to win the Civil War. Lincoln did two great things during the Civil War: turn the issue, on an international scale, to one of righteousness versus slavery; give US Grant control of the military operation. Had Lincoln been a more competent leader from the beginning (to refuse to admit growth as a leader from infantile to extremely capable is pure ignorance) tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of American lives would have been spared.

Like Lincoln, FDR was given ample opportunities to pre-empt the overt loss of American lives in his tenure. I cannot imagine any POTUS not having been able to come out of WWII, as we did, after having been dragged into the fight. It would take history's greatest dolt to fail with men like McArthur, Patton, Eisenhower, Bradley, Halsey, King, etc. leading their military.

Washington led the country through the American Revolution, that's why he was elected President. Obviously you don't have a President if you don't win the Revolution.

If you've ever read Lincoln's papers, I think he was brilliant. He had some incompetent Generals in the beginning.

FDR was elected 4 terms, he had the faith of the people, considering what the people were going through with the depression and WWII, that says a lot.

 

[BigPapaVol]

FDR was elected 4 terms, he had the faith of the people, considering what the people were going through with the depression and WWII, that says a lot.

the faith of the people was almost exclusively attributable to the "free money Deal" that marked his disastrous first eight years.

Amazing what the promise of free money will do. See Obama, Barry for details.

 

[therealUT]

Washington led the country through the American Revolution, that's why he was elected President. Obviously you don't have a President if you don't win the Revolution.

Using this as a guide, then Grant and Eisenhower should be right next to Washington as greatest Presidents.

If you've ever read Lincoln's papers, I think he was brilliant. He had some incompetent Generals in the beginning.

Understatement of the millenium. Also, being a brilliant writer / journalist / diarist does not equate to being a great leader. Lincoln learned well through his tenure. That is all.

FDR was elected 4 terms, he had the faith of the people, considering what the people were going through with the depression and WWII, that says a lot.

Trotsky, Lennon, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, etc. These leaders had the faith of the people..."that says a lot".

The "people" are usually morons.

 

[gsvol]

Like Lincoln, FDR was given ample opportunities to pre-empt the overt loss of American lives in his tenure. I cannot imagine any POTUS not having been able to come out of WWII, as we did, after having been dragged into the fight. It would take history's greatest dolt to fail with men like McArthur, Patton, Eisenhower, Bradley, Halsey, King, etc. leading their military.

Fortunately we had Eisenhower to stand up to FDR's pet general, George Marshall.

FDR was elected 4 terms, he had the faith of the people, considering what the people were going through with the depression and WWII, that says a lot.

Being a good salesman and being a good leader aren't necessarily the same animal.

FDR's economic recovery plan didn't work, it just didn't work a little, it didn't work at all.

FDR's policies in the treaties made with the USSR weren't anywhere near what America should have come out of the war with.

 

[WA_Vol]

Using this as a guide, then Grant and Eisenhower should be right next to Washington as greatest Presidents.

Understatement of the millenium. Also, being a brilliant writer / journalist / diarist does not equate to being a great leader. Lincoln learned well through his tenure. That is all.

Trotsky, Lennon, Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, etc. These leaders had the faith of the people..."that says a lot".

The "people" are usually morons.

Eisenhower is considered one of the top 10 best presidents.

Hitler had the faith of his people? They were trying to assasinate him. Thats like saying Saddam had the faith of the people. The people had no choice for none of those leaders you mentioned.

I'll take the "people" govt here over anyplace else in the world.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Eisenhower is considered one of the top 10 best presidents.

Hitler had the faith of his people? They were trying to assasinate him. Thats like saying Saddam had the faith of the people. The people had no choice for none of those leaders you mentioned. It was a dictatorship for all these leaders you mentioned.

Hitler absolutely swept to power on the will of the people. He did so with populist rhetoric and fancy speeches, all the while harboring some hideous long term goals. I don't believe Obama has that in him, but his rise to power due to the disastrous admin. before his and dire economic situation is not radically different than Hitler's beginnings.

 

[therealUT]

Hitler had the faith of his people?

Ummm...On second thought, you are the one with his facts straight in this discussion. :hi:

 

[SavageOrangeJug]

Hitler absolutely swept to power on the will of the people. He did so with populist rhetoric and fancy speeches, all the while harboring some hideous long term goals. I don't believe Obama has that in him, but his rise to power due to the disastrous admin. before his and dire economic situation is not radically different than Hitler's beginnings.

You give him more credit than I do.

 

[gsvol]

You give him more credit than I do.

I agree with you, Obambi's actions in Kenya speak volumes of what he is capable of.

 

[thagodfather]

reagan is a favorite of mine

reagan should be top five.

 

[thagodfather]

Please. Carter ahead of anyone is an abortion. A was adisaster fiscally, but he was a better leader than Carter has ever dreamed of being.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

to me he is not president carter, he is that guy that builds cheap houses.

 

[thagodfather]

Doubt Lincoln all you'd like, but be faced the biggest challenge to this nation's sovereignty and came out on top. The lone other leader in his league is Washington, who held our pitiful Army together by the sheer force of his personality.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

true

 

[thagodfather]

I agree. Indian removal was absolutely neccessary.

david crockett believed removal of the indians was not necessary and he and andrew jackson fought on this subject.

 

[thagodfather]

jfk was one of the most overrated presidents in american history. i've never understood why some people act like he was one of the greatest presidents we've ever had.

the assassination, his young age, and his good looks (the guy was little odd looking in my opinion) are what makes him so overrated. he shouldn't make the top 20 as far as accomplishments. he was known mainly for starting the race to the moon. big deal, we win bragging rights over the russians.

 

[thagodfather]

I honestly don't think what they've attempted to do is too far off this mark.

if it was greatest presidents, no doubt reagan would be in the top 5.

 

[thagodfather]

that doesn't change that Carter was the meekest leader in the history of our presidency. His pandering set us back about 1,000 years in Middle East relations.

president reagan gets the credit for bringing the hostages home. he said free the hostages before i'm sworn in as president or i will come and get them. they were freed.

 

[thagodfather]

The only right they were worried about losing, was the right to enslave others.

they never enslaved anyone. they were slaves in africa before coming here.

 

[thagodfather]

I would put him no better than 8th.

and that's why you will not be making a relevant list anytime soon.

 

[volsincebirth]

Why was the emancipation proclamation a joke?

Many of the things Lincoln did were tough, but desperate times called for desperate measures. He, nearly single handedly, kept this a country.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

You should read the book. " The real Lincoln"
It tells about how he shelled New York with the Navy and put every single (Including Northern) journalist in prison for disagreeing with him.