Michelle Marciniak's Take

[MsSportsGuy]

I haven't posted about the coaching situation since last spring but am reading all this due to an inability to sleep. The Lady Vols didn't look good at the end of the season and I'm not shocked they lost to a very good Oregon State team.

Holly Warlick is the coach next season but this is her last straw. She will have some talent even if it's still very young. UT still has one of the largest and loyal fan bases in the sport and it's tradition and legacy are unmatched by anyone outside of Storrs. Warlick and her staff are probably already working on the game plan for next season and the offense will have to look different without Russell down low. Hopefully everyone associated with the program is taking an honest look at where things are and what needs to change for improvement.

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Exactly, you choose to support the coach and not the program. Glad we got that cleared up.

The rest is just whiny nonsense and a whole host of logical fallacies, including a pathetic attempt to drag my personal life into the matter. The ones about demanding my qualifications and saying I shouldn't have an opinion, unless it is fawning support, of course, are the dumbest, though.

Oh, you certainly may have an opinion. My point is that it's nothing more than an opinion. And it's not even an educated one, apparently.

Not trying to drag your personal life anywhere. My "pathetic" attempt was to get you to think about manners in situations where you care about someone.

To me - obviously not to you - the program means more than just some random sports team. My support for the coach is not distinct from my support of the team, especially since the coach is also a lifelong Lady Vol.

This isn't a structured debate, but oh please forgive me my logical fallacies.

 

[TN1111]

I haven't posted about the coaching situation since last spring but am reading all this due to an inability to sleep. The Lady Vols didn't look good at the end of the season and I'm not shocked they lost to a very good Oregon State team.

Holly Warlick is the coach next season but this is her last straw. She will have some talent even if it's still very young. UT still has one of the largest and loyal fan bases in the sport and it's tradition and legacy are unmatched by anyone outside of Storrs. Warlick and her staff are probably already working on the game plan for next season and the offense will have to look different without Russell down low. Hopefully everyone associated with the program is taking an honest look at where things are and what needs to change for improvement.

Hate to break it to you but I agree with the Holly supporters on this one. Holly is no where near being fired from her coaching duties. There's a steady decline the program is enduring and only when those supporters have had enough could there ever be change. That support shows no sign of decline.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Hate to break it to you but I agree with the Holly supporters on this one. Holly is no where near being fired from her coaching duties. There's a steady decline the program is enduring and only when those supporters have had enough could there ever be change. That support shows no sign of decline.

It's not Holly they feel they would be quitting on...It's the university, the Lady Vols.

They're reluctant to stop supporting because Pat worked so hard...Ut is synonymous with women's movement. To not support it in ANY time would feel wrong to our long-time fanbase and alumni. that is the reluctance, IMHO.

CHW's staff is missing what is was missing six years ago...an Alpha coach.

Solve this and they solve the inconsistencies.

The other side of the coin is game management.
This can be learned.

 

[glv98]

To me - obviously not to you - the program means more than just some random sports team. My support for the coach is not distinct from my support of the team, especially since the coach is also a lifelong Lady Vol.

It's not Holly they feel they would be quitting on...It's the university, the Lady Vols.

They're reluctant to stop supporting because Pat worked so hard...Ut is synonymous with women's movement. To not support it in ANY time would feel wrong to our long-time fanbase and alumni. that is the reluctance, IMHO.

But is it possible to love and "support" this program to death? Does true love mean never having to say "wait a second, something is wrong here!"

I don't for a second think what PHS worked so hard for was a slide into La Tech style irrelevance. In fact I know its not, since The Legend was humble enough, and cared about what she built enough to admit publicly she needed help updating the offense and outlined her plan for doing so. A decade ago.

Its precisely b/c many of us DO care so much about the LVs that we are able to identify and beg for solution to the problems which are so apparent. Blind loyalty only masquerades as love and support.

I'm honestly curious, not baiting at all, when I ask whether the first poster, the love em or leave em one, thinks there's a problem at all. Do you see the lack of competitiveness for championships as a natural and acceptable evolution? Is mid-pack SEC ok and do you see the current direction down the ladder changing anytime soon?

 

[Voldon18]

Interesting reads here. I’m giving some slack to MM’s sentiments due to my own frustration with the way the players performed down the stretch. They do deserve the lion’s share of the blame. We missed too many give-me shots and free throws and played complacent. These facts can’t all fall completely on Holly’s lap.

Where I depart from MM’s words has to do with Holly’s responsibilities. She sets the tone of her players with her personality and demeanor. That said, I’ll repeat what I’ve said from the day Holly was hired: She isn’t Pat. In fact, the opposite is true. Holly was always the laid back, party-girl, best-friend counterpart to Pat. I went to school with Holly, was an intern during the early stages of the wonen’s Athletic department and witnessed the personal dynamics of Pat and Holly firsthand. Pat was the boss, the strategist and disciplinarian. Holly was the shoulder to cry on, the let’s go have some pizza and chill pal for the players. Facts.

Holly will never be tough so a solid solution would be for her to hire an intelligent, strategy-oriented taskmaster to strike fear (and some good hearted loathing) into these spoiled AAs. Then and only then will this program turn around.

If I’m Fulmer I force Holly to replace Dean with a lion, today, and I give her the final year of her contract to make it to the Final Four OR hop on your bike and ride into the sunset.

Go LVs

P.S. Haters, don’t over reach, per usual, and take this as total condemnation of Holly. To know Holly is to love her. I’m merely suggesting she hire a shark to do what she is incapable of ever accomplishing (strict discipline).

 

[djohnnyg]

Some Tennessee fans are still spewing venom at Coach Fulmer from when he was coach.

Some Tennesse fans still have several threads going that continue to hurl ugly invectives at Butch Jones.

Some Tennesse fans want coach Ralph Weekly fired.

Other Tennessee fans want Chancellor Davenport fired.

Six games into the 2018 football season Tennessee fans will be saying he was the wrong hire.

Tennessee fans have about 20 FIRE HOLLY threads going.

Tennesse fans are the absolute worst in all of college athletics.

Get out then and root for someone else.

 

[OnlyGodForgives]

Get out then and root for someone else.

All those probable facts listed are emblematic of a losing athletic program. Fans aren't going to be happy about it, but there will have to be a massive revenue decrease before the system decides to act. I sense far more apathy than righteous indignation at this point. If Schiano had been Schiano without the Penn State issues, he absolutely would be UT's head coach right now. And he would stand as an entirely underwhelming choice.

 

[leejoek]

I agree with you to a point. Kids this day and time are different than your age group. (as you were different than my group) That being said, over the last few years Holly has not been able to instill the (Pat) factor. She can't. Not tough enough. There is an old saying "you can led a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". You know Pat could make him drink. You just have to get his attention. Pat could, Holly can't. Holly may be the best teacher (couch) out there, but this day and time there is more to the job than she has to give.

By the year 6 or 7, players should know how to sprint!

 

[Prophet1]

Poster did better than you, that's for sure. Calling someone a bunch of names is not "owning" them. The takes are completely baseless.

My reply was appropriate. You guys just keep being negative and enjoy yourselves, but don't believe you're a fan.

Do you have a guideline or book for being a fan. Either write one or tell me where I can check it out in my public library. If not then don't tell us what your opinion is on how I should be a fan. You live by how you should be a fan , then I have the same rights. And RIGHT Now as a fan of a dismal program caused by the coach inabilities to be a WINNING coach I say make a change.

 

[Prophet1]

Interesting reads here. I’m giving some slack to MM’s sentiments due to my own frustration with the way the players performed down the stretch. They do deserve the lion’s share of the blame. We missed too many give-me shots and free throws and played complacent. These facts can’t all fall completely on Holly’s lap.

Where I depart from MM’s words has to do with Holly’s responsibilities. She sets the tone of her players with her personality and demeanor. That said, I’ll repeat what I’ve said from the day Holly was hired: She isn’t Pat. In fact, the opposite is true. Holly was always the laid back, party-girl, best-friend counterpart to Pat. I went to school with Holly, was an intern during the early stages of the wonen’s Athletic department and witnessed the personal dynamics of Pat and Holly firsthand. Pat was the boss, the strategist and disciplinarian. Holly was the shoulder to cry on, the let’s go have some pizza and chill pal for the players. Facts.

Holly will never be tough so a solid solution would be for her to hire an intelligent, strategy-oriented taskmaster to strike fear (and some good hearted loathing) into these spoiled AAs. Then and only then will this program turn around.

If I’m Fulmer I force Holly to replace Dean with a lion, today, and I give her the final year of her contract to make it to the Final Four OR hop on your bike and ride into the sunset.

Go LVs

P.S. Haters, don’t over reach, per usual, and take this as total condemnation of Holly. To know Holly is to love her. I’m merely suggesting she hire a shark to do what she is incapable of ever accomplishing (strict discipline).

Again blaming young players. Now they're 'Spoiled'. Spoiled How?
Spoiled suggests getting everything you want and mourning and crying
when you don't. They can't be spoiled they haven't gotten anywhere or have everything. Maybe you mean hungry but they has a mommy who's
unable to feed them and spoil them in the riches of the WCBB.
You've given reasons why Holly shouldn't be entrusted with this household.
The nanny needs replacing. Find me a better babysitter for my 'Spoiled' kids.

 

[teacherdean]

I haven't posted about the coaching situation since last spring but am reading all this due to an inability to sleep. The Lady Vols didn't look good at the end of the season and I'm not shocked they lost to a very good Oregon State team.

Holly Warlick is the coach next season but this is her last straw. She will have some talent even if it's still very young. UT still has one of the largest and loyal fan bases in the sport and it's tradition and legacy are unmatched by anyone outside of Storrs. Warlick and her staff are probably already working on the game plan for next season and the offense will have to look different without Russell down low. Hopefully everyone associated with the program is taking an honest look at where things are and what needs to change for improvement.

We need to find a consistent offense, stop all these turnovers and find a way to be productive on offense no matter what defense is thrown at us. We also need a vocal leader on the floor and I believe Davis has that capability.

 

[Amb3096]

We need to find a consistent offense, stop all these turnovers and find a way to be productive on offense no matter what defense is thrown at us. We also need a vocal leader on the floor and I believe Davis has that capability.

Davis? Too quiet. Maybe Green or Jackson might be more natural leaders.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Davis? Too quiet. Maybe Green or Jackson might be more natural leaders.

Zay Green is a combination of Rennia's one-on-one skills and Evina's passing. Throw in Meme as the "closer" and you could put pretty much anyone in the 5 spot.

Meme is, and will be, ready to lead this team. She will show up for every game and plays to her strength for "that" game. I have watched her development this year closely and she has learned not to force the game and to emphasize what is "working" for that particular outing.

Overall, this team will be stronger,, even with losing two All SEC'ers... The reason, this new team is not built to be a low-post oriented composition. They are built for cutter and gunner, basketball. No forcing of the ball inside means more emphasis on drives and shooting the mid-range or treys.

This is a scorers environment.

 

[Amb3096]

Zay Green is a combination of Rennia's one-on-one skills and Evina's passing. Throw in Meme as the "closer" and you could put pretty much anyone in the 5 spot.

Meme is, and will be, ready to lead this team. She will show up for every game and plays to her strength for "that" game. I have watched her development this year closely and she has learned not to force the game and to emphasize what is "working" for that particular outing.

Overall, this team will be stronger,, even with losing two All SEC'ers... The reason, this new team is not built to be a low-post oriented composition. They are built for cutter and gunner, basketball. No forcing of the ball inside means more emphasis on drives and shooting the mid-range or treys.

This is a scorers environment.

I actually meant Cheridene, not Zarielle.

Assuming you have a coach that knows what to do besides "Inside OUT!!!!", and I'm not sold Holly can do that. Even when Izzy was injured, her offense was still dump the ball into Graves so she can get stuffed. I don't believe she will be able to adjust her offense and the team will look exactly as it always does. Force it inside while everyone else stands around, then jack up a prayer when the ball comes back out.

IMO, there is zero chance this team will be better than this past season. Mercedes was Holly's ultimate "get out of jail free" card. I lost track of the number of games they would have lost this season without a 6'6 closer inside who could suck in multiple defenders. That alone will be a huge loss for the team, let alone expecting Zarielle to play with the maturity and IQ of an upperclassman.

 

[xanamanax]

Davis? Too quiet. Maybe Green or Jackson might be more natural leaders.

I think it'll be Evina. There was one after-game presser with, I think, just her and Rennia, and she really came across to me as a take charge type. This year was Jaime's and Mercedes' team so I understand if a freshman didn't try to take over.

 

[Coach Jumper]

I actually meant Cheridene, not Zarielle.

Assuming you have a coach that knows what to do besides "Inside OUT!!!!", and I'm not sold Holly can do that. Even when Izzy was injured, her offense was still dump the ball into Graves so she can get stuffed. I don't believe she will be able to adjust her offense and the team will look exactly as it always does. Force it inside while everyone else stands around, then jack up a prayer when the ball comes back out.

IMO, there is zero chance this team will be better than this past season. Mercedes was Holly's ultimate "get out of jail free" card. I lost track of the number of games they would have lost this season without a 6'6 closer inside who could suck in multiple defenders. That alone will be a huge loss for the team, let alone expecting Zarielle to play with the maturity and IQ of an upperclassman.

Rewatch the first half of the McDAA game if you have it,,,Green knew when to release on the break and could finish. She comes in with the confidence Evina did and pretty near equal deliveries to cutters.. She's a playmaker and a finisher. ... Maturity??? I haven't watched the telecast a 2nd time yet. ...When I rewatch the game to scout the players, then I can expand on this group.

...That same 6'6" imposing force often disappeared for a qtr or more. Teams take on the personality of their coach and the tendencies of their leaders. That is why I feel this upcoming year we will be stronger. Meme got better nearly every outing last season. If the team takes on this tendency, it will not be a Jekyll-Hyde enigma.

 

[Nute Gunray]

I actually meant Cheridene, not Zarielle.

Assuming you have a coach that knows what to do besides "Inside OUT!!!!", and I'm not sold Holly can do that. Even when Izzy was injured, her offense was still dump the ball into Graves so she can get stuffed. I don't believe she will be able to adjust her offense and the team will look exactly as it always does. Force it inside while everyone else stands around, then jack up a prayer when the ball comes back out.

IMO, there is zero chance this team will be better than this past season. Mercedes was Holly's ultimate "get out of jail free" card. I lost track of the number of games they would have lost this season without a 6'6 closer inside who could suck in multiple defenders. That alone will be a huge loss for the team, let alone expecting Zarielle to play with the maturity and IQ of an upperclassman.

I agree with this post. No team can lose their two best players and be the same.

 

[Daloth]

Or maybe the players aren't responding to Holly because they know she's over her head and is clueless. The great coaches don't deflect after losses they take full responsibility. Holly is the Butch Jones of Women's basketball.

Hell no, at least Holly has won at the highest level, even if it was as the assistant to the sports greatest coach. Comparing her to Lyle is asinine.

 

[gule]

butch will get the last laugh with bama's next natty in 2018.

 

[leejoek]

I actually meant Cheridene, not Zarielle.

Assuming you have a coach that knows what to do besides "Inside OUT!!!!", and I'm not sold Holly can do that. Even when Izzy was injured, her offense was still dump the ball into Graves so she can get stuffed. I don't believe she will be able to adjust her offense and the team will look exactly as it always does. Force it inside while everyone else stands around, then jack up a prayer when the ball comes back out.

IMO, there is zero chance this team will be better than this past season. Mercedes was Holly's ultimate "get out of jail free" card. I lost track of the number of games they would have lost this season without a 6'6 closer inside who could suck in multiple defenders. That alone will be a huge loss for the team, let alone expecting Zarielle to play with the maturity and IQ of an upperclassman.

Would there be a day when our opponents honor our outside shooting?

 

[Prophet1]

Zay Green is a combination of Rennia's one-on-one skills and Evina's passing. Throw in Meme as the "closer" and you could put pretty much anyone in the 5 spot.

Meme is, and will be, ready to lead this team. She will show up for every game and plays to her strength for "that" game. I have watched her development this year closely and she has learned not to force the game and to emphasize what is "working" for that particular outing.

Overall, this team will be stronger,, even with losing two All SEC'ers... The reason, this new team is not built to be a low-post oriented composition. They are built for cutter and gunner, basketball. No forcing of the ball inside means more emphasis on drives and shooting the mid-range or treys.

This is a scorers environment.

Love your post,coach. Dead on the head.No more forcing into the paint.

 

[Prophet1]

I agree with this post. No team can lose their two best players and be the same.

Uconn does it every year. And so does ND.

 

[TnScooby]

Hell no, at least Holly has won at the highest level, even if it was as the assistant to the sports greatest coach. Comparing her to Lyle is asinine.

Maybe not..CHW inherited a program that was at the top of the SEC and still a National Championship contender..CBJ inherited a hot mess but still managed a couple of 9 win seasons while restocking the cupboard
with some top notch talent..

I was extremely disappointed that CBJ wasn't able to take UT back to championships, SEC or National..I also grew resentful of the weird dynamic CBJ created with the press (and fans) where every tine he said anything, it seemed to be the same old tired cliche-filled coach speak..I admire CHW's love for all things orange and her dedication to LV players past, present and future..But at the rate she's going it could end up just like CBJ, LV loyalty and all..It's WAY past time for the LV's to start winning championships again and unfortunately CHW is not doing that..And just like CBJ, it is the actual COACHING (or lack of) that will prevent her from taking the LV's to the level.....

:twocents:

 

[1CHATTVOL]

Do you have a guideline or book for being a fan. Either write one or tell me where I can check it out in my public library. If not then don't tell us what your opinion is on how I should be a fan. You live by how you should be a fan , then I have the same rights. And RIGHT Now as a fan of a dismal program caused by the coach inabilities to be a WINNING coach I say make a change.

First of all, unauthorized/uneducated opinions telling others what to do are RAMPANT and EMBRACED and PREFERRED on this forum...but only if it's negative, Fahr Holly bull$hit.

Second, The word ‘fan’ is an abbreviation from fanatic. Fanatic derives from the Latin “fanaticus” which literally means “a temple servant, a devotee".

It has also been described as sacred or beneficial. In the course of time, the word has been used in reference to excessive ENTHUSIASM!

The dictionary defines a fan as a person who has a strong admiration for a particular person or thing.

Synonyms for fan are enthusiast, devotee, admirer, lover, supporter, follower, disciple, adherent, zealot, connoisseur, aficionado.

So, yes, a "fan" manual should be based almost exclusively in positivity.

What makes one think you're being a fan when you

*call for the coach to be fired, or

*criticize her every move, or

*minimize her accomplishments, loyalty, resumé, or acumen...?


BUT, you don't have to listen to me. I'm just a pollyanna water carrier for Holly. I don't give 2 $hits about the program, obviously.

PLEASE CARRY ON!