What defines an RPG?

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Recently a friend and I were having a discussion about video game genres and what games are the best at what genre. We came across RPG's and realized we have a very different viewpoint on what constitutes an RPG. This was spawned by the fact that he said Bloodborne was one of the better RPG's out there.

He's not a true RPG'er like myself. He never played the classic Final Fantasy's, never played Xenogears or Chrono Trigger, etc etc. I tried to explain to him that Bloodborne, although labeled an RPG, was in no way a "true RPG" like the classics. It sparked a pretty lengthy debate.

Our argument came to this: The term "Role Playing Game" is extremely vague and is misused. How many games are there out there where you don't "play a role"? He believes an RPG is any game where you level up your character, pick up new items, etc. I disagree, I believe an RPG, a true RPG, is any game where the focal point of the game is the storyline. You play a role in the most important element of the game, which is the tale it's telling.

Certain games throw a wrench in a lot of theories. Destiny is an RPG, The Last of Us is not. I would consider the Last of Us much more of an RPG than destiny, but Destiny gets the label. Why?

There have been several FF games where you don't level anything up (FF12 comes to mind), but no one would argue whether or not they are RPG's. In the Assassins Creed games you level up a lot of things, pick up new weapons, interact with characters, etc. But the AC games are not considered RPG games.

Thoughts?

 

[Aesius]

Japanese RPGs are story-heavy, and while leveling up and customizing your character are part of the experience, they're not inherent to the gameplay. Examples: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest

Western RPGs are more open-ended and focus heavily on character customization, development, and side quests. Examples: Fallout, Skyrim, The Witcher

Computer RPGs are a blend of both (and usually played from an isometric perspective). Examples: Diablo, Baldur's Gate, Fallout 1/2, Pillars of Eternity

There are games that don't fit neatly within those categories, of course, but I think more and more games from all genres are borrowing RPG elements because they reward players for investing time in the game. It's satisfying to watch your character get stronger and see their equipment and stats improve over time. Even sports games have RPG elements now.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

That's a pretty legit answer. Pretty much solves our argument. But what would you say defines an RPG? If you had to give a short answer.

 

[UTCVol]

Choice/consequences and emphasis on storytelling in that your character is molded by his/her experiences and your choices throughout the course of the game. Granted, the lines between genres have become a lot more indistinguishable now that "RPG elements" are pretty much a necessity for a game to be successful. Leveling up/skill trees, stats, and customization are often a part of RPGs, but it definitely isn't a necessity.

Destiny is not an RPG because the world and story don't matter. It's all about the loot grind. 2K My Player is more of an RPG than that game is. The early Souls games straddled the line between action and RPG, but Bloodborne tends toward the action side in my opinion.

Elder Scrolls, every Bioware game, the Infinity engine games (Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale, etc.), Chrono Trigger, the Witcher games, Fallout, Deus Ex - those are RPGs in my opinion. Zelda, GTA, Borderlands, Bioshock, and many others are not. I'm not sure about Telltale games - under my definition they would be, but I haven't seen many people who actually do consider them RPGs. It could be argued that their "choices" are ultimately meaningless.

 

[Volwark]

This is nigh impossible to define, as I'm sure there are people who would argue that the original Legend of Zelda is an RPG because you build your character thu acquisition of items (ie heart containers).

I would strictly define any RPG as a game where your advancement of the story relies heavily upon buidling your character through some form of experience points (it may not be exactly experience points) gained by defeating AI enemies. This can be applied to standardized levels, or even skills thats improve your characters (for example, Final Fantasy II).

Of course that definition is not scientific, but its as good as I can come up with.

There have been several FF games where you don't level anything up (FF12 comes to mind),

Not to sidetrack, but I'm not sure what you mean there as you do gain experience points and levels in FF12. Prolly confusing it with something else.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Pretty much what Aesius said.

In the past I only called JRPGs RPGs because they were basically the only games where you had dungeon crawling, leveling up, stories, character development, etc found in games like D&D - that, and Japanese developers called them RPGs, so I went with it.

I'd say Bloodborne is a Japanese take on a Western RPG - action heavy for the Westerners, but brutally difficult for the Japanese (they still consider us to be filthy casuals).

Heck, games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Diablo, etc are probably more-so "role playing games" than the Final Fantasy series ended up being, considering you created your own role and played the story how you wanted (somewhat) more than you did as a predetermined character with a predetermined narrative in games like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger.

Regardless of how they're classified, I've always enjoyed them both and how different they were, but now it seems like JRPG makers are seeing the monetary success of WRPGs and are trying to dumb JRPGs down to appeal to the West. I have friends who say they wished Final Fantasy would drop the turn-based and be more like Dragon Age or the Witcher. I say, just play Dragon Age and the Witcher and stop trying to make everything the same!

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

This is nigh impossible to define, as I'm sure there are people who would argue that the original Legend of Zelda is an RPG because you build your character thu acquisition of items (ie heart containers).

I would strictly define any RPG as a game where your advancement of the story relies heavily upon buidling your character through some form of experience points (it may not be exactly experience points) gained by defeating AI enemies. This can be applied to standardized levels, or even skills thats improve your characters (for example, Final Fantasy II).

Of course that definition is not scientific, but its as good as I can come up with.



Not to sidetrack, but I'm not sure what you mean there as you do gain experience points and levels in FF12. Prolly confusing it with something else.

I thought 12 just did the grid system. You didn't level up necessarily, just gained new abilities following the grid.

I could be wrong, 12 was a long time ago and I wasn't a huge fan, but that was how I remembered it.

 

[UTCVol]

Pretty much what Aesius said.

In the past I only called JRPGs RPGs because they were basically the only games where you had dungeon crawling, leveling up, stories, character development, etc found in games like D&D - that, and Japanese developers called them RPGs, so I went with it.

I'd say Bloodborne is a Japanese take on a Western RPG - action heavy for the Westerners, but brutally difficult for the Japanese (they still consider us to be filthy casuals).

Heck, games like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Diablo, etc are probably more-so "role playing games" than the Final Fantasy series ended up being, considering you created your own role and played the story how you wanted (somewhat) more than you did as a predetermined character with a predetermined narrative in games like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger.

Regardless of how they're classified, I've always enjoyed them both and how different they were, but now it seems like JRPG makers are seeing the monetary success of WRPGs and are trying to dumb JRPGs down to appeal to the West. I have friends who say they wished Final Fantasy would drop the turn-based and be more like Dragon Age or the Witcher. I say, just play Dragon Age and the Witcher and stop trying to make everything the same!

I was under the impression that's pretty much what SE is doing for combat in FF15, but I haven't really been following it that closely.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I was under the impression that's pretty much what SE is doing for combat in FF15, but I haven't really been following it that closely.

They are. FF15 feels closer to Dragon Age than it does classic JRPGs.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

They are. FF15 feels closer to Dragon Age than it does classic JRPGs.

I need FF15 to be a lot better than it was in the demo.

 

[Aesius]

There's another category of RPGs that hasn't seen much success in recent years: strategy RPGs. Shining Force, Vagrant Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics, etc. Amazing games.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

There's another category of RPGs that hasn't seen much success in recent years: strategy RPGs. Shining Force, Vagrant Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics, etc. Amazing games.

Yep, that's another great one. Massive Chalice on Xbox One is a SRPG and I think there is a Disgaea coming to PS4 soon.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

I need FF15 to be a lot better than it was in the demo.

There is always hope, but you know as well as I that it will be an open-world Kingdom Hearts with autonomous AI, bad voice acting, androgynous male leads and a J-pop soundtrack minus Donald Duck.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

There is always hope, but you know as well as I that it will be an open-world Kingdom Hearts with autonomous AI, bad voice acting, androgynous male leads and a J-pop soundtrack minus Donald Duck.

Uggghhhhh you're absolutely right. And that sucks.

 

[Aesius]

There is always hope, but you know as well as I that it will be an open-world Kingdom Hearts with autonomous AI, bad voice acting, androgynous male leads and a J-pop soundtrack minus Donald Duck.

Once voice acting became standard, the Final Fantasy series took a nose dive for me. X is the last one I played and the voice acting was cringeworthy.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Once voice acting became standard, the Final Fantasy series took a nose dive for me. X is the last one I played and the voice acting was cringeworthy.

When Tidus did the "HA HA HA" thing? Ugh...

 

[ajvol01]

RPG = Rocket Propelled Grenade IMO

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Once voice acting became standard, the Final Fantasy series took a nose dive for me. X is the last one I played and the voice acting was cringeworthy.

That's actually a very good observation. There was always just something about reading a conversation with atmosphere-appropriate music in the background that sucked you in.

Man, I miss the classics.

 

[SWIL]

Once voice acting became standard, the Final Fantasy series took a nose dive for me. X is the last one I played and the voice acting was cringeworthy.

This. i was pretty much done with FF at this point.