Malaysia Boeing 777

#576
#576
You don't have to watch the entire hour, just watch the first 11:00 minutes... in particular, the exchange over the last 60 seconds where Marie Harf suggests that the US is more credible than Russia.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGNn5ZB0wEo[/youtube]
 
#577
#577
Also pay close attention to the exchange with Harf that starts at about the 15:00 mark, where the US showed US photos of Russian missiles in Cuba. Harf said that a more reasonable comparison would be the evidence the US provided last year regarding the charges made against Asaad and chemical weapons. The same level of evidence would be provided in this case as was given last year in that case.

That is the best we can expect in regards to "evidence"? Wow...
 
#578
#578
Marie Harf is getting carved up, flayed and scallped in this press conference. Yet another reasonable question being asked at the 31:18 mark about a two year old ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas.
 
#580
#580
Rasputin_Vol said:
Also pay close attention to the exchange with Harf that starts at about the 15:00 mark, where the US showed US photos of Russian missiles in Cuba. Harf said that a more reasonable comparison would be the evidence the US provided last year regarding the charges made against Asaad and chemical weapons. The same level of evidence would be provided in this case as was given last year in that case.

That is the best we can expect in regards to "evidence"? Wow...
Click to expand...

Wasn't the final analysis on the chemical weapons used in Syria that the Assad regime couldn't have been the one's that used them and the US position was wrong?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#581
#581
So Ras/Red, what I'm getting from you is that it is the US, the Obama administration and its handlers in particular, is causing much of the strife and conflict around the globe? Am I correct in this assessment?

If so, what's their end game? Anti-Christ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#582
#582
hog88 said:
So Ras/Red, what I'm getting from you is that it is the US, the Obama administration and its handlers in particular, is causing much of the strife and conflict around the globe? Am I correct in this assessment?

If so, what's their end game? Anti-Christ?
Click to expand...

I don't think they're very religious, so probably not Anti-Christ. There has been some serious propaganda coming from both sides so it's almost impossible to know what is fact and what isn't.

I do know we're extremely weak right now... both politically and economically. One way to maintain influence is to destabalize other regions. We certainly don't want Russia to regain its former position in global influence. The Ukraine government before it was overthrown had planned to join the EU, but backed out which is probably why it was overthrown.

I also know that quantitative easing is having nasty inflationary effects in smaller economies. When food prices rise to a point where people can't afford to eat, civil unrest is a certainty. James Rickards wrote an excellent book on this subject titled "Currency Wars".

I believe there is credible evidence that we were supporting Islamic extremists throughout the Arab Spring. Possibly the same forces we armed and trained are now setting up an Islamic State in the Middle East.

The bottom line is I think the US is losing control of the situation and will take the necessary measures to maintain power.
 
#583
#583
red butler said:
The bottom line is I think the US is losing control of the situation and will take the necessary measures to maintain power.
Click to expand...

My memory ain't what it used to be. When, exactly, did the US have control of the situation in the ME?
 
#585
#585
Danl said:
My memory ain't what it used to be. When, exactly, did the US have control of the situation in the ME?
Click to expand...

We've had tremendous control of the flow of resources in the region for a very long time. I guess what I mean is if you look at it from a national security interest perspective, the importance of the Middle East is the Straight of Hormuz, the Suez Canal, flow of oil, and the concept of the petrodollar. Lets face it, if there was no oil in the ME we would pay about as much attention to the region as Africa.

Whether it's operation Ajax installing the Shah, US support of Sadaam against Iran, Desert Storm, or OIF with very few exceptions (70s oil embargo) the oil has flown freely and relatively cheaply.

Now, the petrodollar is under tremendous pressure. Qadaffi wanted to sell oil for gold, Sadaam was going to sell oil for Euros, and production of oil in Saudi has probably peaked at a time when other developing countries are increasing demand. These events are putting our interests in the region in jeopardy.
 
#588
#588
red butler said:
We've had tremendous control of the flow of resources in the region for a very long time. I guess what I mean is if you look at it from a national security interest perspective, the importance of the Middle East is the Straight of Hormuz, the Suez Canal, flow of oil, and the concept of the petrodollar. Lets face it, if there was no oil in the ME we would pay about as much attention to the region as Africa.

Whether it's operation Ajax installing the Shah, US support of Sadaam against Iran, Desert Storm, or OIF with very few exceptions (70s oil embargo) the oil has flown freely and relatively cheaply.

Now, the petrodollar is under tremendous pressure. Qadaffi wanted to sell oil for gold, Sadaam was going to sell oil for Euros, and production of oil in Saudi has probably peaked at a time when other developing countries are increasing demand. These events are putting our interests in the region in jeopardy.
Click to expand...

The reason why we are now in a lot of these other locations is because Russia and China are the lead dogs in de-dollarizing and moving to a gold-backed trade settlement system. Since gold/silver/real resouces are an enemy to the western banking interests and the USD, the US military now is the sole backer of the USD...
 
#589
#589
Rasputin_Vol said:
The reason why we are now in a lot of these other locations is because Russia and China are the lead dogs in de-dollarizing and moving to a gold-backed trade settlement system. Since gold/silver/real resouces are an enemy to the western banking interests and the USD, the US military now is the sole backer of the USD...
Click to expand...

Yep, and it's looking like Germany is going to go with them.
 
#590
#590
Rasputin_Vol said:
You are correct.
Click to expand...

Funny how that never got corrected in the public domain. I still see pundits criticize Obama for not bombing Syria after crossing the red line. It's pretty ironic that the highlight of his miserable presidency was his failure to convince congress for authorization to go to war based on faulty intelligence.
 
Last edited:
#592
#592
red butler said:
Just so everyone doesn't think I'm crazy because I'm skeptical of the official version of the downing of the airliner, these guys have been in the intelligence game a long time and bring up some very good points.

Obama Should Release Ukraine Evidence | Consortiumnews
Click to expand...

It's like this: we can either stick our heads up our rears and choose to ignore the following facts...:

1. Russian separatists (notice how I didn't say, "pro-Russian") reported that they had a BUK a few days before the crash. It was a glorious moment in Russian separatist and Russian land-grabbing history.

2. Russian separatists tweeted that they had shot down a Ukrainian plane around the same time that MH 17 went down. All the tweets were then deleted. An American conspiracy perhaps.

3. The BUK system that Russian separatists reported possessing before the crash is no longer in eastern Ukraine.

4. Russian separatists prevented a thorough investigation of the crash site for weeks.

...Or we can just believe that everything that happens in the world everywhere is just one big freaking American conspiracy. Honestly, since this crisis has began, and I've looked at Russian media, I've started doubting things myself. For instance:

1. My wife: does she love me? Maybe she just married me for all my money that I don't have? But, then again, maybe she thinks I have a lot of money. I don't know. I'm so confused.

2. UT hired me to teach. Am I really that good of a teacher, or is UT exploiting me so that it can co-opt my excellent teaching skills to teach students how to become willful bankster mafiosos?

3. Is **** brown, because **** is trying to suggest to us that racism is actually good? I honestly don't know. I mean, I'm so confused.
 
#594
#594
volprof said:
It's like this: we can either stick our heads up our rears and choose to ignore the following facts...:

1. Russian separatists (notice how I didn't say, "pro-Russian") reported that they had a BUK a few days before the crash. It was a glorious moment in Russian separatist and Russian land-grabbing history.

2. Russian separatists tweeted that they had shot down a Ukrainian plane around the same time that MH 17 went down. All the tweets were then deleted. An American conspiracy perhaps.

3. The BUK system that Russian separatists reported possessing before the crash is no longer in eastern Ukraine.

4. Russian separatists prevented a thorough investigation of the crash site for weeks.

...Or we can just believe that everything that happens in the world everywhere is just one big freaking American conspiracy. Honestly, since this crisis has began, and I've looked at Russian media, I've started doubting things myself. For instance:

1. My wife: does she love me? Maybe she just married me for all my money that I don't have? But, then again, maybe she thinks I have a lot of money. I don't know. I'm so confused.

2. UT hired me to teach. Am I really that good of a teacher, or is UT exploiting me so that it can co-opt my excellent teaching skills to teach students how to become willful bankster mafiosos?

3. Is **** brown, because **** is trying to suggest to us that racism is actually good? I honestly don't know. I mean, I'm so confused.
Click to expand...

Yeah your right, the government would never lie to us to garner support for war. Except... Saddam didn't have WMD, N Vietnam didn't fire torpedoes at the US Navy in the Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor wasn't a surprise attack, The Lusitania was in fact transporting weapons and the US knew the Germans were going to sink it, and the USS Maine wasn't attacked by the Spanish. The gov has lied to get support for pretty much every war we've been involved in.

Did you even read the letter? These are career intelligence professionals from all branches in the community, not conspiracy theorists. Let's review some additional facts.

1. Award winning journalist Robert Parry has a high ranking source in US intelligence that says the missile that shot down the airliner appears to have been under Ukrainian control. Parry is one of the journalists that broke the Iran-Contra scandal. I guess CIA selling weapons for cocaine is another whacko conspiracy theory.

2. The authenticity of the youtube video Kiev released of communications between the seperatists was immediately in question because the file creation time stamp was one day prior to the event. Every news outlet ran with the video with the caveat that it was unverified, but public opinion was already being shaped.

3. Kiev authorities immediately confiscated the air traffic control tapes. An ATC controller indicated fighter planes were also in the area, Kiev denied until it was proven.

4. The MH17 had flown several kilometers off its' normal flight path.

5. Russia has provided detailed intelligence showing Ukraine had BUK missile battery's south of Donetsk. Why were they there? The seperatists have zero attack aviation assets.

6. The black boxes were handed over with no sign of tampering.

7. Poop is brown because it's brown. Don't read too much into it.

I'm not being unpatriotic. I just want to know that if I have to go fight in another war, that the reasons are legitimate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#595
#595
red butler said:
Yeah your right, the government would never lie to us to garner support for war. Except... Saddam didn't have WMD, N Vietnam didn't fire torpedoes at the US Navy in the Gulf of Tonkin, Pearl Harbor wasn't a surprise attack, The Lusitania was in fact transporting weapons and the US knew the Germans were going to sink it, and the USS Maine wasn't attacked by the Spanish. The gov has lied to get support for pretty much every war we've been involved in.

Did you eve read the letter? Let's review some additional facts.
1. Award winning journalist Robert Parry has a high ranking source in US intelligence that says the missile that shot down the airliner appears to have been under Ukrainian control. Parry is one of the journalists that broke the Iran-Contra scandal. I guess CIA selling weapons for cocaine is another whacko conspiracy theory.

2. The authenticity of the youtube video Kiev released of communications between the seperatists was immediately in question because the file creation time stamp was one day prior to the event. Every news outlet ran with the video with the caveat that it was unverified, but public opinion was already being shaped.

3. Kiev authorities immediately confiscated the air traffic control tapes. An ATC controller indicated fighter planes were also in the area, Kiev denied until it was proven.

4. The MH17 had flown several kilometers off its' normal flight path.

5. Russia has provided detailed intelligence showing Ukraine had BUK missile battery's south of Donetsk. Why were they there? The seperatists have zero attack aviation assets.

6. The black boxes were handed over with no sign of tampering.

7. Poop is brown because it's brown. Don't read too much into it.

I'm not being unpatriotic. I just want to know that if I have to go fight in another war, that the reasons are legitimate.
Click to expand...

You give American intelligence and spy agencies way too much credibility. They appreciate it though.

Oh, and about the ATC and veering off course thing, you do know that two other planes that week were taking down by bad weather, don't you? (Perhaps the US took them down though.) Reportedly, there was bad weather in the area at that time.

(Which may, which may just explain why the plane was possibly brought down by Russian rebels.)

I guess America and the EU conspired to have bad weather at the time though.

You act like Vladimir Putin might be some bastion of truth here. You're talking about a man who had nearly 400 of his fellow citizens killed just to justify renewing the war in Chechnya. Don't act like the US is the only one who can play at this game.

By the way, I don't disagree with your first paragraph. I just find the evidence against the Russian rebels (which you didn't even speak to) far too damning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#596
#596
volprof said:
You give American intelligence and spy agencies way too much credibility. They appreciate it though.

Oh, and about the ATC and veering off course thing, you do know that two other planes that week were taking down by bad weather, don't you? (Perhaps the US took them down though.) Reportedly, there was bad weather in the area at that time.

(Which may, which may just explain why the plane was possibly brought down by Russian rebels.)

I guess America and the EU conspired to have bad weather at the time though.

You act like Vladimir Putin might be some bastion of truth here. You're talking about a man who had nearly 400 of his fellow citizens killed just to justify renewing the war in Chechnya. Don't act like the US is the only one who can play at this game.

By the way, I don't disagree with your first paragraph. I just find the evidence against the Russian rebels (which you didn't even speak to) far too damning.
Click to expand...

I thought the weather angle had been debunked as well, perhaps not.

You make a good point about the spy agencies (specifically HUMINT), but I'm very familiar with SIGINT. At the stated range, a radar would have been required to guide the missile. When a radar lights up, we know where it is and who it is. All I'm saying is that we should be able to provide proof, without betraying sources and methods, instead of relying on social media.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I also understand there is no way he's going to allow Ukraine into NATO. It would be suicide for his country. If the situation was reversed, we wouldn't allow western Canada to fall to the Warsaw Pact cutting us off from Alaska and the pipeline.

Unfortunately, I think Putin has the upper hand.
 
#597
#597
red butler said:
Did you even read the letter? These are career intelligence professionals from all branches in the community, not conspiracy theorists. Let's review some additional facts.
Click to expand...

Half of the letter was about events that happened in the '80s--not anything specific to this event.
 
#599
#599
red butler said:
I thought the weather angle had been debunked as well, perhaps not.

You make a good point about the spy agencies (specifically HUMINT), but I'm very familiar with SIGINT. At the stated range, a radar would have been required to guide the missile. When a radar lights up, we know where it is and who it is. All I'm saying is that we should be able to provide proof, without betraying sources and methods, instead of relying on social media.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I also understand there is no way he's going to allow Ukraine into NATO. It would be suicide for his country. If the situation was reversed, we wouldn't allow western Canada to fall to the Warsaw Pact cutting us off from Alaska and the pipeline.

Unfortunately, I think Putin has the upper hand.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but I'm still skeptical about the Ukraine to NATO claims. I just don't see how that would benefit anyone, other than perhaps Ukraine itself.
 
#600
#600
Russia is demanding answers. Why are we not able to get the black box audio and information released by now?

Russia demands publication of recordings from downed flight MH17 - Telegraph

"Why have the data still not been published about the conversations between the air traffic controllers and the pilots of the Boeing? Why haven't the data been presented from the international investigation of the black boxes? Who doesn't want this to happen?"
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top