Z's Top 100 NBA Players of All Time

#151
#151
Why doing these types of lists is really hard.

I barely had heard of Chet Walker, look up his resume after I saw his passing and thought “Damn that was a hell of a career!”
 
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#152
#152
In the 62’ Finals, 2-2 going into Game 5 Elgin Baylor puts up 61/22.

Here’s a quote from Bob Cousy about that game: “When we held Elgin to 61, I remember going up to Satch Sanders and telling him sincerely that he’d done a helluva job defensively. And he had. He made Elgin work for every basket. But that’s how good Elgin was.”
 
#153
#153
Will update in a couple days but not a lot of movement this year
 
#154
#154
Updated list

docs.google.com

My Top 100 NBA Players

Z’s Top 100 NBA Players Since 1956 1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2 Michael Jordan 3 LeBron James 4 Bill Russell 5 Tim Ducan 6 Wilt Chamberlain 7 Magic Johnson 8 Larry Bird 9 Hakeem Olajuwon 10 Shaquille O"Neal 11 Jerry West 12 Oscar Robertson 13 Moses Malone 14 ...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
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#155
#155
Jokic entered #25

Luka vaulted to #45 and I'll be shocked if he's not top 20 at the end of it all

Tatum went up to #65

I dropped Billy Cunningham down a little bit but still in the top 60. His NBA career was too short to be top 50.

I bumped up Julius Erving to #16 ahead of Baylor, Dirk, KG, Isiah and Malone. I underrated Julius because his prime was ABA and forgot how incredibly good he was pre-Moses. After doing some digging I am correcting that.

Because Bill Simmons' "The Book of Basketball" has such a heavy influence on this list, there were some Celtics that I had put on the list higher than they should be due to Bill's homerism. So I dropped Cowens, Parish and Bailey Howell somewhere around 7 spots each. All in the top 100, but there was some slight adjustments after I did some more digging into their careers.
 
#156
#156
I might be out of my mind, but I feel worse about Tatum after this playoff. He did better as a playmaker, but the scoring was his worst since 2019 and the competition was weak. He's a fkn awful scorer/shooter.
 
#157
#157
n_huffhines said:
I might be out of my mind, but I feel worse about Tatum after this playoff. He did better as a playmaker, but the scoring was his worst since 2019 and the competition was weak. He's a fkn awful scorer/shooter.
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Three straight 1st team all NBA, two finalists, another game 7 conference Final.

It’s why I kept him out top 60. I could be wrong but I think he’s the lowest “best player on a Champ” except for the 1977 Blazers, 1979 Sonics, and 2004 Pistons on my list
 
#158
#158
Russell
Pettit
Wilt
Reed
Kareem
Frazier
Havlicek
Barry
Cowens
*Walton
Hayes
*Gus Williams or Dennis Johnson
Bird
Moses
Magic
Isiah
Jordan
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
*Billups or Ben
Wade
KG
Kobe
Nowitzki
LeBron
Curry
Durant
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic
Tatum

No 2004 Pistons made my list. I had Bill Walton #100, Dennis Johnson ranks #80. So Tatum is the lowest after those two guys

Edit: Shout out to George Milan (1950, 1952, 1953, 1954 Minneapolis Lakers) Arnie Risen (1951 Rochester Royals), Dolph Schayes (1955 Syracuse Nationals) and Paul Arizin (1956 Philadelphia Warriors) for the pre-Russell era
 
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#159
#159
Some legacy updates based on playoff results

LeBron would go to #1 if he wins a title and Finals MVP

Jokic/Giannis would vault into top 20 with a Finals appearance

Luka joins Jokic/Giannis in the top 25-30 range with a Finals win and MVP

Tatum would go top 50 with a Finals win and FMVP

Donovan Mitchell goes top 100 leading Cleveland to the Finals.

SGA will go top 100 this year, could get into the top with Finals win and FMVP

Jaylen Brown goes into top 100 with a Finals win

The Clippers winning the title would break the list
 
#161
#161
zjcvols said:
@n_huffhines Where you do have Anthony Davis ranked? He's #46 for me overall. Is that too high?
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I need bearings. Looking at ESPN's list, they got

#50 James Harden
#47 Ray Allen
#43 Jason Kidd

I would say that's about right. He's a better talent than all of those guys, but his career isn't "greater" or lesser, in any meaningful way. He's an elite 2-way player who was 1B on a title team. Harden has an MVP but no finals appearances. Kidd was the best player on two finals teams and has a title as a role player. Ray Allen is a top 5 shooter all-time and has 2 titles. They're all so different and I can't say that much separates them.
 
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#162
#162
I think I'm moving Jokic up regardless of what happens in the playoffs. I know I shouldn't, and I try really hard to factor player talent, production and resume, but I just don't know if I can have Jokic outside my top 20 all-time. I'd rather have his resume than Isiah, Durant, Barkley and Malone.
 
#163
#163
zjcvols said:
I think I'm moving Jokic up regardless of what happens in the playoffs. I know I shouldn't, and I try really hard to factor player talent, production and resume, but I just don't know if I can have Jokic outside my top 20 all-time. I'd rather have his resume than Isiah, Durant, Barkley and Malone.
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Not enough career points yet.
 
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#164
#164
zjcvols said:
I think I'm moving Jokic up regardless of what happens in the playoffs. I know I shouldn't, and I try really hard to factor player talent, production and resume, but I just don't know if I can have Jokic outside my top 20 all-time. I'd rather have his resume than Isiah, Durant, Barkley and Malone.
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He's 100% ahead of Isiah, Barkley, and KaMinor Malone....
 
#165
#165
BigOrangeMojo said:
He's 100% ahead of Isiah, Barkley, and KaMinor Malone....
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Don't ever group Isiah in with Barkley and Malone, Isiah's a winner, twice in the NBA and a NCAA title at Indiana. Isiah will always be top 20, imo. Too bad, the achilles ended his career, 5 years early or he might be top 10
 
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#166
#166
The Dog said:
Don't ever group Isiah in with Barkley and Malone, Isiah's a winner, twice in the NBA and a NCAA title at Indiana. Isiah will always be top 20, imo. Too bad, the achilles ended his career, 5 years early or he might be top 10
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Ive seen enough to put Jokic, who doesn't have the luxury of playing with multiple HOFers, ahead of Isiah.

Was Isiah ever a top 3 player? How many years in a row has Jokic been one?
 
#167
#167
BigOrangeMojo said:
Ive seen enough to put Jokic, who doesn't have the luxury of playing with multiple HOFers, ahead of Isiah.

Was Isiah ever a top 3 player? How many years in a row has Jokic been one?
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I have no problem putting Joker ahead of Isiah. But, you didn't mention Joker, you grouped Isiah in with Barkley and Malone.

Edit: I didn't read what you quoted, but my point still stands, Isiah's a winner, Barkley and Malone are not
 
#168
#168
The Dog said:
I have no problem putting Joker ahead of Isiah. But, you didn't mention Joker, you grouped Isiah in with Barkley and Malone.

Edit: I didn't read what you quoted, but my point still stands, Isiah's a winner, Barkley and Malone are not
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Barkley and Malone both have MVPs (Malone 2). Isiah doesn’t. Barkley and Malone also have several more All-NBA selections than Isiah.
 
#169
#169
KoachKrab127 said:
Barkley and Malone both have MVPs (Malone 2). Isiah doesn’t. Barkley and Malone also have several more All-NBA selections than Isiah.
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Nobody is changing my mind, Isiah will always be top 20, to me. I like Barkley and I can't stand Malone, but neither one, had the will to win like 6'1 Isiah Thomas. Btw, I, also think Isiah is the greatest NBA player under 6'2.
 
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#171
#171
The Dog said:
Nobody is changing my mind, Isiah will always be top 20, to me. I like Barkley and I can't stand Malone, but neither one, had the will to win like 6'1 Isiah Thomas. Btw, I, also think Isiah is the greatest NBA player under 6'2.
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I have a pretty nuanced opinion of Isiah. I think he was a great talent whose day-to-day play didn't exactly match his talent and prestige. But I agree, the fact that his resume as the best player on two titles teams validates him in the "greatness" convos. It's just really hard to argue that. But when we attribute things to him, like his will to win vs. other players, etc....he won two titles mostly because of the team D and rebounding, which he had nothing to do with. Yeah, he carried the O, but the O isn't what made them elite.

Barkley put together a great finals performance with Scottie Pippen guarding him. Barkley just ran into a better team with prime Michael Jordan. Seemed like he had the will to win, but the other 9 guys on the floor matter too much.

All that being said, Zeke over Barkley and Malone. It's a tough call with Barkley because I don't think he wilted in big moments like Malone did, so it's hard to blame him for not having a title.

The one that is really tough for me is Stockton and Zeke. The fact that Stockton holds the SPG and APG records and they will never be broken means a ton.
 
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#172
#172
n_huffhines said:
I have a pretty nuanced opinion of Isiah. I think he was a great talent whose day-to-day play didn't exactly match his talent and prestige. But I agree, the fact that his resume as the best player on two titles teams validates him in the "greatness" convos. It's just really hard to argue that. But when we attribute things to him, like his will to win vs. other players, etc....he won two titles mostly because of the team D and rebounding, which he had nothing to do with. Yeah, he carried the O, but the O isn't what made them elite.

Barkley put together a great finals performance with Scottie Pippen guarding him. Barkley just ran into a better team with prime Michael Jordan. Seemed like he had the will to win, but the other 9 guys on the floor matter too much.

All that being said, Zeke over Barkley and Malone. It's a tough call with Barkley because I don't think he wilted in big moments like Malone did, so it's hard to blame him for not having a title.

The one that is really tough for me is Stockton and Zeke. The fact that Stockton holds the SPG and APG records and they will never be broken means a ton.
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Yeah, that will to win remark was kind of a cheap shot. Like I said, I was a Barkley fan and wanted him to get a 💍. Stockton has the longevity and stats-wise is definitely way ahead of Zeke, but my eye test tells me Isiah was better. But, these are all opinions and you know what they say about those
 
#174
#174
zjcvols said:
Why doing these types of lists is really hard.

I barely had heard of Chet Walker, look up his resume after I saw his passing and thought “Damn that was a hell of a career!”
Click to expand...
Mike Mitchell

Dude almost had hof stats and nobody knows who he is
 
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#175
#175
This season has to get SGA into the top 100 right? MVP, and even if he doesn't win Finals MVP, he's clearly proven himself in the playoffs so far. Maybe into the low 80s.
 
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