Yahoo Sports/Pete Thamel Article Says Coaches Expect UT to Flop at the Dance

#76
#76
NEO said:
I just dont understand why certain posters on here think that after 20 years of a coaching record Barnes is suddenly going to change and get his teams deep into the tourney.

His record is his record.

The sweet 16 is pretty much his ceiling.
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"I just don't understand why certain posters on here think that after 13 years of a coaching record Tony Bennett is suddenly going to change and get his teams deep into the tourney.

His record is his record.

The sweet 16 is pretty much his ceiling"
I'm sure people posted similar things to this on Virginia boards two years ago. Now I'm not saying we win the national championship or anything close really this year, but the idea that some coaches are "good" tourney coaches is mostly hogwash to me. The rules are the same, you're either a good coach or you're not, and sometimes you'll have good runs and sometimes you won't
 
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#77
#77
VolFreakJosh said:
Everyone is 0-0 in the NCAA Tournament right now.

Whatever issues we had in the regular season is totally irrelevant at this time of year.

We have plenty of talent to make a deep run. It won’t be easy but it’s possible.
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I am well aware everybody is 0-0 and admit it or not those same issues follows you until you fix it. I personally think this team wins the 1st 2 games but after that, its up in the air. They are capable of being a good team. They are so Jekyll and Hyde. If you can get the team that beat Kansas then they will go deep. They have to play every game like that.
 
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#78
#78
tnvols72 said:
lol , turnovers are a problem with this team and so are the scoring droughts and no shooters. take off those orange colored glasses.
right now for the year they are avg 12.5
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You don’t get it. Re-read and maybe it will come to you....maybe it won’t.
 
#79
#79
VolGee4 said:
I can handle that average amount with the way they play defense. They had 13 and 13 in the consecutive UF games. They had 20 against Bama, but 4/5 were charges which is unusual. Keep turnovers at 13 or less, and UT will win games. The scoring droughts can hold them back.
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Those 4/5 charges could be questionable. They was to me anyways lol. I dont mind the turnovers because they are the part of the game but the problem I see is that we dont have the scorers that can shoot us back in the game. If they can put consistent games together like the Kansas game they can go deep. I noticed they tend to get into trouble in games where they get up 12-18 points and they get out of what got them these leads and when teams starts coming back on them they cant seem to find that groove again. They cant afford to take minutes off.
 
#81
#81
We know the warts they have and the levels the team can reach. So a Final Four or a 2nd round exit wouldn't surprise me. Tennessee can dominate soild Missouri or Kansas but lose to bad Kentucky. Can go toe to toe with a 2 seed without their senior leader, or get blown off the face of the Earth vs Florida. We won't know until the game is rolling which team has shown up, can't shoot Vols which leads to defensive breakdowns or can't miss Vols where they stifle the top scorers on the other team because making shots seems to inspire their defense. Possibly a combo of both like we saw Saturday.
 
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#82
#82
tnvols72 said:
dont have to, you picked the first 13 games and used that as your argument.
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His point was that it wasn’t a problem at the start of the season, which you said had been a problem all year.

I actually looked back at a few losses (OM, UK, LSU), and the turnovers weren’t bad. Defense had too many breakdowns, and offense sputtered at times.
 
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#83
#83
VolFreakJosh said:
Everyone is 0-0 in the NCAA Tournament right now.

Whatever issues we had in the regular season is totally irrelevant at this time of year.

We have plenty of talent to make a deep run. It won’t be easy but it’s possible.
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Really? Whatever deficiencies you had in the regular season are irrelevant? How? A team’s strengths and weaknesses don’t disappear because it’s March. Everyone’s record is now 0-0, and teams go on runs, but they don’t just magically transform
 
#84
#84
Vol49er said:
"I just don't understand why certain posters on here think that after 13 years of a coaching record Tony Bennett is suddenly going to change and get his teams deep into the tourney.

His record is his record.

The sweet 16 is pretty much his ceiling"
I'm sure people posted similar things to this on Virginia boards two years ago. Now I'm not saying we win the national championship or anything close really this year, but the idea that some coaches are "good" tourney coaches is mostly hogwash to me. The rules are the same, you're either a good coach or you're not, and sometimes you'll have good runs and sometimes you won't
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Bennett had already been to the EE and 2 Sweet 16s before his NC run in S 13, Rick had 1 Sweet 16 in his first 13 years. WSU was 11-17 before he arrived and in the S16 by year 2. Virginia was 10-18 before he took over there, in the ACC. We are just now seeing what he looks like at a program he's established and maintained and it's simply better than Barnes at his peak. Plus Barnes is 21 seasons past his 13th. Not a great comparison.
 
#85
#85
VolArmy74 said:
Bennett had already been to the EE and 2 Sweet 16s before his NC run in S 13, Rick had 1 Sweet 16 in his first 13 years. WSU was 11-17 before he arrived and in the S16 by year 2. Virginia was 10-18 before he took over there, in the ACC. We are just now seeing what he looks like at a program he's established and maintained and it's simply better than Barnes at his peak. Plus Barnes is 21 seasons past his 13th. Not a great comparison.
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Barnes has been to the sweet 16 or further 7 times. The fact is, almost all CBB fans though Bennett was a terrible tourney coach, and then he won the NC. Because there's no such thing as good or bad "tourney coaches", just good or bad coaches. Barnes is a very solid coach, has had solid success in the tourney, some bad luck means he hasn't had very solid success. It's that simple.
 
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#86
#86
VolGee4 said:
His point was that it wasn’t a problem at the start of the season, which you said had been a problem all year.

I actually looked back at a few losses (OM, UK, LSU), and the turnovers weren’t bad. Defense had too many breakdowns, and offense sputtered at times.
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It wasnt the sole problem but it was still a problem and it got worse as the season went on, not better. That is the point I am trying to say. That is why I said he was trying to use the first 13 games as an argument when the 2nd half of the season it got worse. he said the first 13 games they avg 9 a game and now its 13.6 and its a problem. Might not been as big of a problem at first but as the competition got better the turnovers got worse ?
 
#87
#87
cardvolfan said:
They averaged 9.9 turnovers per game the first 13 games. That is phenomenal, so it has not been the problem the entire time. Know what you’re talking about before commenting.
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Probably 8 or so games in those first 13 games were against horrible teams. I would take early stats with a grain of salt. When we started consistently seeing good opponents that could pressure the ball the book on us was out.
 
#88
#88
Anyone who knows basketball, should not be surprised by predictions of an early exit. This team has some individual skill, but way too inconsistent as a team, poorly coached especially @ crunch time, and when pressed, look like deer in spot lights. You would think, none of them have ever seen a basketball before. I have them winning one and done with 4, yes 4 future NBA players in KJ, JS, JJJ, n YP.
 
#89
#89
Vol49er said:
Barnes has been to the sweet 16 or further 7 times. The fact is, almost all CBB fans though Bennett was a terrible tourney coach, and then he won the NC. Because there's no such thing as good or bad "tourney coaches", just good or bad coaches. Barnes is a very solid coach, has had solid success in the tourney, some bad luck means he hasn't had very solid success. It's that simple.
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7 times in 33 years isn't all that good. Compared to his contemporaries who've coached in the 35 year range in the same era 7 trips to the sweet 16 is subpar. Especially when many of them spent good chunks of their career at a lower division or in one bid leagues. Rick's career is close to Lon Kruger's except Kruger has 2 final fours and he had 5 years at Texas Pan American to start out vs Rick having one season in a one bid league. Barnes is an above average coach but has never been great/elite for any sustained time. Many seem to think he's a HOF lock but look at the coaches there and the ones not, and I don't see him ever making it personally and it's because of his lack of post season success.
 
#90
#90
tnvols72 said:
It wasnt the sole problem but it was still a problem and it got worse as the season went on, not better. That is the point I am trying to say. That is why I said he was trying to use the first 13 games as an argument when the 2nd half of the season it got worse. he said the first 13 games they avg 9 a game and now its 13.6 and its a problem. Might not been as big of a problem at first but as the competition got better the turnovers got worse ?
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You can’t reason with someone who keeps changing the optics.
 
#91
#91
BigOrangeMojo said:
Not a lot to disagree with here. I do question the Victor Bailey comment though. The team lacks shooting then a sentence later it states that the team's best shooter,Bailey, doesn't fit with the team. Huh?????
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Best if he's hitting - more often than not, he's not hitting, and he is a consistent defensive liability.
 
#92
#92
VolArmy74 said:
7 times in 33 years isn't all that good. Compared to his contemporaries who've coached in the 35 year range in the same era 7 trips to the sweet 16 is subpar. Especially when many of them spent good chunks of their career at a lower division or in one bid leagues. Rick's career is close to Lon Kruger's except Kruger has 2 final fours and he had 5 years at Texas Pan American to start out vs Rick having one season in a one bid league. Barnes is an above average coach but has never been great/elite for any sustained time. Many seem to think he's a HOF lock but look at the coaches there and the ones not, and I don't see him ever making it personally and it's because of his lack of post season success.
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I feel like we're having two different conversations haha. I'm just trying to say that a coach is a certain level of capable, and no coach suddenly loses or gains competency in the tournament. They just have lucky or unlucky breaks
 
#93
#93
wmcovol said:
Barnes allows teams to go on 12-15 pt runs without using a TO. That gets you beat tournament time.
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Barnes? So Barnes is the one out there throwing the ball away letting other teams get easy transition buckets? Timeouts aren’t magic, like some think.
 
#95
#95
Vol49er said:
I feel like we're having two different conversations haha. I'm just trying to say that a coach is a certain level of capable, and no coach suddenly loses or gains competency in the tournament. They just have lucky or unlucky breaks
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The game changes in a win or go home situation with a short time to prepare vs another quality coach/team. Great/elite coaches separate themselves in the post season from the average/good ones. I don't think it's a matter of being lucky or unlucky that Barnes doesn't fare as well as other coaches of similar tenure when the post season arrives. He just has a certain ceiling that's clearly established after 34 years.
 
#96
#96
VolGee4 said:
His point was that it wasn’t a problem at the start of the season, which you said had been a problem all year.

I actually looked back at a few losses (OM, UK, LSU), and the turnovers weren’t bad. Defense had too many breakdowns, and offense sputtered at times.
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Im actually surprised at some of the numbers myself because it seems like we have more turnovers than we actually do. However, I dont think the issue is how many as much as when. They usually come in bunches and give teams easy buckets to go on a run or late in the game during closeout possessions. Its not like they are sporadic and happen throughout the game they just go braindead at times.
 
#97
#97
Seems like Yahoo is taking the glass half empty approach (i.e. if Vols can't then they lose) and Bilas is taking the glass half full approach (if the Vols can, they get to the S16 at least).

I think both are valid positions.
 
#98
#98
This is a stupid article. BYU might play Michigan St if they MSU wins. MSU would easily beat BYU who’s a 6 seed. .. If TN was a 7th seed they wouldn’t be in this article.
If the article is suggesting that TN is a flop if they don’t beat Oklahoma State, then they obviously don’t know about that team. If TN gets beat , it will be by Ok St.
 
#99
#99
DiderotsGhost said:
I don't think we'll go far in the tournament, but the potential to "flop" is rather limited. We're only expected to beat Oregon State, so we can "flop" against them, but no one is really expecting us to beat Oklahoma State (who should've been a 2 or 3 seed) anyway.
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I don’t know about that. We found a way to “flop” against Loyola in the 2nd round. I’m sure if we lose to Liberty in the 2nd round people will rightfully consider that a flop.
 
#100
#100
Can't really say it's an unreasonable position to take. This years team is the definition of inconsistency. You truly never know which UT will show up from night to night. We can just as easily lose in round one as go to the sweet 16. Having said that it's hard for me to see this bunch string together enough wins to get that deep.

As a UT fan of nearly 60 years, I long ago adopted a stance of hoping for the best but preparing for disappointment.
 
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