WNBA discussion thread?

[glv98]

Aces waived Carter and picked up Justine P who was cut by the Fever. I believe Justine got a full contract.

What in the world can anyone do for Carter? This started a while back when she complained in a post game presser and online about her lack of playing time. Immediately after , there was a string of illness and injury related sit outs for her. Has only been back a few games and playing time has been limited, not near the impact she was having before all this started. People at the Aces last game said Carter got into an altercation on court with Wilson and Gray when they tried to tell her to step up her defense. Got subbed out immediately and that apparently was the end.

Carter was having an All star season before all this . She was virtually unstoppable on the offense. Probably the most skilled player I've ever seen who justifiably has no place in the league. Really really sad

 

[JL1231]

Aces waived Carter and picked up Justine P who was cut by the Fever. I believe Justine got a full contract.

What in the world can anyone do for Carter? This started a while back when she complained in a post game presser and online about her lack of playing time. Immediately after , there was a string of illness and injury related sit outs for her. Has only been back a few games and playing time has been limited, not near the impact she was having before all this started. People at the Aces last game said Carter got into an altercation on court with Wilson and Gray when they tried to tell her to step up her defense. And that apparently was the end.

Carter was having an All star season before all this . She was virtually unstoppable on the offense. Probably the most skilled player I've ever seen who justifiably has no place in the league. Really really sad

Justine was on the development contract with the Fever which allowed any other team to offer her a contract and the Fever had 24 hours to match. That would have required the Fever to cut someone and put Justine on a regular contract which the Fever refused to do which I think will turn out to be mistake.

 

[glv98]

I'm afraid our poor Rae is in the inner of basketball hell right now. Roberts and Pebbly have clearly collectively lost their damn minds. In an effort to top the inexplicable giveaway of Rickea for Ariel Atkins, they've cut Tanyia Latson to make room for Kate Martin and Alysa Pili. Yes that's right, latson for Kate freaking Martin, everyone's favorite League mascot.

I would say they're putting on a tank commander clinic, but I'm pretty sure that's not why Plum and Nekka are there.

After their latest loss, a 20 point beatdown at home from Seattle, one of the league's worst teams, a visibly emotional Rae was consoled by Cheryl Miller. At the presser afterwards Rae, Hamby and Nekka were so dejected they could barely hold their heads up. With Plum and Brink still out, with absolutely zero bench (except of course Mighty Kate Martin) they are just spiraling.

It's all really messing with what should be a breakout year for Rae.

 

[glv98]

Justine was on the development contract with the Fever which allowed any other team to offer her a contract and the Fever had 24 hours to match. That would have required the Fever to cut someone and put Justine on a regular contract which the Fever refused to do which I think will turn out to be mistake.

Right. And then picked up by the Aces on a full contract to replace Carters roster spot.

Meanwhile, Janiah Barker continues to ride the bench, Not getting cut, but never getting to play.

 

[knoxvol52]

 

[glv98]

But her marketability is, in part, based on the narrative that she is a game changing, "generational" talent. That is the idea that generates all the smoke and leads to insane conspiracy theories when she is not dominating the league.

In reality, she is an excellent passer (one of the best in the W, though Chelsea Gray, Paige B. and Olivia Miles are also in that conversation); she is an average 3 point shooter with above average range (and fans do tune in to see her nail a logo 3 about 15 to 20% of the time). She has improved her mid-range game and her ability to get to the rim but I don't think she is elite on those dimensions. I won't even get into the defensive stuff. She did put up some eye popping rookie numbers but we have since seen, an offensive system that optimizes her personal stats probably suboptimizes the team.

I am quite curious how long this discrepancy between Caitlin Clark the marketing myth and Caitlin Clark, the actual player can be sustained.

I think this is a very accurate assessment. Clark's talents were oversold, as the capitalist system is eager to do for its cash cows. Of course her zaniest fans have invented their hard and fast narrative that she hasn't reached generational level because she has not been allowed to by jealous players and an inept league. They'll never not believe that, even if it's not true.

IMO things have gone a little better for Angel precisely because the talent expectations were never there for her She was drafted lower then some expected and you always knew she would have to grit and grind her way through, which obviously she has done. The other thing that's helped Angel is a change of scenery. She needed to get away from the first situation she landed in dragging that huge cultural agenda along with the basketball lurking somewhere in the background.

I think a change of scenery is exactly what CC needs now. Fit for superstars is really hard. Clark does not fit with Boston and Mitchell. It's constraining for all of them. The absolute joy with which they played, and Stephanie White coached, the last game said it all. I wonder if Clark might be a good fit with one of the expansion teams, surrounded by reliable role players. Expansion teams definitely ain't what they used to be. Wherever Caitlin lands after her rookie contract is over next year she definitely has to step up her D.

In fairness to Clark, her chronic back issues have likely skewed her early pro career way more than anyone even wants to admit. She has done pretty well overall, but might have done even better if she could have stayed healthy. Chronic pain affects every aspect of life. I feel bad for her to be dealing with that at her age.

Bless her. Back problems are notorious for chronic misery. She is currently as fragile as Grandma's china., with her availability depending on how she slept, how far they're traveling et cetera. It's like Grandma will come for Thanksgiving dinner if she's having a good day. It's really holding her back.

There's also a narrative around this of course, that the back problem is caused by rough fouling. But having watched her, I don't think that's true. I think lots of other things are at play.

 

[Silence Dogood]

Carter is an elite scorer when healthy, but has now Been Let Go By Four WNBA Teams​

The Las Vegas Aces waived Chennedy Carter in a stunning move on Tuesday ahead of the WNBA's mid-season cut-down date. The move is the latest setback for the former No. 4 pick, who has struggled to stick in the league despite an abundance of talent.

The Aces did not provide any additional information or explanation on their decision to waive Carter. The team does not play again until Thursday against the Portland Fire, and does not have any scheduled media availability until then, so it will be a few days until we hear from coach Becky Hammon or any players.

After a stellar college career at Texas A&M, Carter was selected fourth by the Atlanta Dream in the 2020 WNBA Draft. Since then, she has played just 97 games for four different franchises due to injuries and questions about her conduct, both on the court and in the locker room.

Chennedy Carter waived by Aces as talented guard's tumultuous WNBA career takes another turn

Carter is an elite scorer when healthy, but has now been let go by four WNBA teams

www.cbssports.com

https://www.cbssports.com/writers/jack-maloney/

 

[lvocd]

Chennedy Carter can’t get out of her own way, and I question whether even the best behavioral therapist in the world could help her at this point. I said when the Aces signed her that they’d likely regret it, and for a while I thought she was going to prove me wrong — I was hoping she would. But Chennedy is gonna Chennedy. Man, I hate it that she struggles to keep her act together.

 

[glv98]

Almost as reliable as a Chennedy Crashout, here’s Skylar popping her head up.

Basically Marsh told her she’d be coming off the bench and apparently shes hurt her knee rushing to social media to melt down over that. Zero self awareness that basketball wise, this decision was actually overdue. She hasn’t been getting it done, they’ve forgotten how to win and something needs to change.

Later in the day she elaborated that she’s disappointed in the lack of progress of promised rehab and practice facilities. Apparently lack of those caused her knee to flair up and she won’t play tonight.

Poor Tyler. Seems like the nicest guy in the world but his year and a half as head coach has been an unmitigated nightmare.

 

[lvocd]

Yeah, Chennedy and Skylar should consider forming yet another league for all the players who can’t seem to make it work no matter where they go and who remain convinced it’s everybody else’s fault instead of their own. Maybe their first recruit to the league could be Liz Cambage.

Who else could they call?

 

[madtownvol]

I think this is a very accurate assessment. Clark's talents were oversold, as the capitalist system is eager to do for its cash cows. Of course her zaniest fans have invented their hard and fast narrative that she hasn't reached generational level because she has not been allowed to by jealous players and an inept league. They'll never not believe that, even if it's not true.

IMO things have gone a little better for Angel precisely because the talent expectations were never there for her She was drafted lower then some expected and you always knew she would have to grit and grind her way through, which obviously she has done. The other thing that's helped Angel is a change of scenery. She needed to get away from the first situation she landed in dragging that huge cultural agenda along with the basketball lurking somewhere in the background.

I think a change of scenery is exactly what CC needs now. Fit for superstars is really hard. Clark does not fit with Boston and Mitchell. It's constraining for all of them. The absolute joy with which they played, and Stephanie White coached, the last game said it all. I wonder if Clark might be a good fit with one of the expansion teams, surrounded by reliable role players. Expansion teams definitely ain't what they used to be. Wherever Caitlin lands after her rookie contract is over next year she definitely has to step up her D.

Bless her. Back problems are notorious for chronic misery. She is currently as fragile as Grandma's china., with her availability depending on how she slept, how far they're traveling et cetera. It's like Grandma will come for Thanksgiving dinner if she's having a good day. It's really holding her back.

There's also a narrative around this of course, that the back problem is caused by rough fouling. But having watched her, I don't think that's true. I think lots of other things are at play.

The lack of fit is becoming more and more glaring. The Fever have an interesting dilemma in that marketing and fan consideration mean that no GM would dare trade her even if it makes basketball sense. Stephanie White will have to keep patching this leaky boat until CC becomes a free agent (or a new coach comes in and they trade out Mitchell)

 

[glv98]

The lack of fit is becoming more and more glaring. The Fever have an interesting dilemma in that marketing and fan consideration mean that no GM would dare trade her even if it makes basketball sense. Stephanie White will have to keep patching this leaky boat until CC becomes a free agent (or a new coach comes in and they trade out Mitchell)

I think all that class, CC, Angel, Rickea, etc will be free agents after next season.

 

[LVfanLasVegas]

Locally people are reporting that there has been internal strife between the players and Carter, referencing social media comments and likes, as well as on-court situations with Aja and Gray. It's unfortunate that she couldn't make it work, she's definitely a fire-cracker on the court, adding a spark to the offense. While it has nothing to do with it, it does make you think of the LV's situation this past season, bad apple scenarios. I wonder how much of it was the players having enough and the coach acting, or was it the coach just simply having enough. These women are now professionals and know what they want/need from their teammates. Anyway, hoping Justine can impact the line up for the Aces.

The CC situation is intriguing trying to figure out if they'd even consider trading a player that is their marketing pony. At the Aces game here in Las Vegas the CC jerseys in the crowd outnumbered the Aja jerseys on her home floor. It leads to the question of whether they'd rebuild the team around CC (new coach, trade others), or if they'd fall into letting the "star" go elsewhere. I agree the fit isn't fitting.

Go Lady Vols!

 

[knoxvol52]

 

[madtownvol]

In fairness to Clark, her chronic back issues have likely skewed her early pro career way more than anyone even wants to admit. She has done pretty well overall, but might have done even better if she could have stayed healthy. Chronic pain affects every aspect of life. I feel bad for her to be dealing with that at her age.

On the back problems, Clark is reportedly an avid golfer (with her on-line fanatics arguing she should turn pro and quit b-ball to show the WNBA). But no activity puts more stress on the back than golf. That is an insane hobby for her to take up.

On a related note, Jess Shepard put up another triple-double last night. She is clearly part of the conspiracy to stop Caitlin Clark from being the most dominant player in the W.

 

[madtownvol]

Right. And then picked up by the Aces on a full contract to replace Carters roster spot.

Meanwhile, Janiah Barker continues to ride the bench, Not getting cut, but never getting to play.

Gotta say, I did not see Justine signing with the defending champs. She is definitely proving her doubters wrong

 

[knoxvol52]

 

[madtownvol]

I'm afraid our poor Rae is in the inner of basketball hell right now. Roberts and Pebbly have clearly collectively lost their damn minds. In an effort to top the inexplicable giveaway of Rickea for Ariel Atkins, they've cut Tanyia Latson to make room for Kate Martin and Alysa Pili. Yes that's right, latson for Kate freaking Martin, everyone's favorite League mascot.

I would say they're putting on a tank commander clinic, but I'm pretty sure that's not why Plum and Nekka are there.

After their latest loss, a 20 point beatdown at home from Seattle, one of the league's worst teams, a visibly emotional Rae was consoled by Cheryl Miller. At the presser afterwards Rae, Hamby and Nekka were so dejected they could barely hold their heads up. With Plum and Brink still out, with absolutely zero bench (except of course Mighty Kate Martin) they are just spiraling.

It's all really messing with what should be a breakout year for Rae.

The sparks personnel decisions have been a mess since their last title with CP3. Will they ever get their act together?

 

[lvocd]

But no activity puts more stress on the back than golf.

I disagree with that. I’ve played both and so understand that there is a certain amount of stress put on the spine during the twist of a club swing, but at least there is no risk of being tackled or flipped or slammed or bouncing off a hard screen involved.

 

[madtownvol]

I disagree with that. I’ve played both and so understand that there is a certain amount of stress put on the spine during the twist of a club swing, but at least there is no risk of being tackled or flipped or slammed or bouncing off a hard screen involved.

This issue is really not a matter of opinion. Hard falls are a form of acute stress but golf is a form of chronic stress that comes from the repetitive motions and torque. Lots of players fall and don't have chronic back injuries. I have tracked it, for example Rae Burrell spends more time falling each game than she does running .

When you read about it, you will see that Clark's soft tissue injuries (the groin, abductor, thigh strain, and back issues) are all part of the same biomechanical chain and weaknesses in one area can create problems in the other. I have seen some speculative diagnoses that Clark may have a relatively weak core which leads overcompensation in other muscle groups. In the near term, playing golf is probably not a great choice.

Another parallel, early in his career Steph Curry suffered from chronic ankle injuries and there were serious concerns about his longevity. He solved the problem by relearning his biomechanics of jumping and running and resolving muscle strength discrepancies. Strange it sounds, a lot of his ankle problems traced to a weak core, which created problems down the kinesthetic chain.

Of course, when you have an inflamed back, hard falls certainly don't help but that I doubt that is the underlying cause.

The narrative that Clark is just too inherently fragile to play in the W (or she needs all kinds of rules that protect this delicate flower) is likely to be wrong.

ESPN had a good story on her off-season training regimen. She is putting in the work but the subtext is that her body needed a lot of conditioning work for the grind of the WNBA. But she is in a tough spot right now, recovering and rehabbing from injuries, doing body reconditioning and playing all at the same time. Biomechanical changes take time and are probably being put off until the off season.

The upside of it all is that she, like Curry, probably has some untapped potential to be realized.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/45116060/caitlin-clark-wnba-indiana-fever-2025-offseason-stronger-reset

 

[chuckiepoo]

This issue is really not a matter of opinion. Hard falls are a form of acute stress but golf is a form of chronic stress that comes from the repetitive motions and torque. Lots of players fall and don;'t have chronic back injuries. I have tracked it, for example {Rae Burrell spends more time falling each game than she does running ].

When you read about it, you will see that Clark's soft tissue injuries (the groin, abductor, thigh strain, and back issues) are all part of the same biomechanical chain and weaknesses in one area can create problems in the other. I have seen some speculative diagnoses that Clark may have a relatively weak core which leads overcompensation in other muscle groups. In the near term, playing golf is probably not a great choice.

Another parallel, early in his career Steph Curry suffered from chronic ankle injuries and there were serious concerns about his longevity. He solved the problem by relearning his biomechanics of jumping and running and resolving muscle strength discrepancies. Strange it sounds, a lot of his ankle problems traced to a weak core, which created problems down the kinesthetic chain.

Of course, when you have an inflamed back, hard falls certainly don't help but that I doubt that is the underlying cause.

The narrative that Clark is just too inherently fragile to play in the W (or she needs all kinds of rules that protect this delicate flower) is likely to be wrong.

ESPN had a good story on her off-season training regimen. She is putting in the work but the subtext is that her body needed a lot of work for the grind of the WNBA. But she is in a tough spot right now, recovering and rehabbing from injuires, doing body reconditioning and playing all at the same time. The biomechanical changes take time and are probably being put off until the off season.

The upside of it all is that she, like Curry, probably has some untapped potential to be realized.

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/45116060/caitlin-clark-wnba-indiana-fever-2025-offseason-stronger-reset

A similar story can be told regarding Justin Verlander. Kate Upton hooked him up with her physiologist and he was diagnosed with a weak core. That was shortly before he came to the Astros in 2017. He definitely extended his great career with the changes he made in his core strength. Was finally able to keep up with that cowgirl warrior, as well.

 

[lvocd]

Right. And then picked up by the Aces on a full contract to replace Carters roster spot.

Meanwhile, Janiah Barker continues to ride the bench, Not getting cut, but never getting to play.

I honestly forgot Barker was even in the league.

 

[LV renaissance]

Chennedy Carter can’t get out of her own way, and I question whether even the best behavioral therapist in the world could help her at this point. I said when the Aces signed her that they’d likely regret it, and for a while I thought she was going to prove me wrong — I was hoping she would. But Chennedy is gonna Chennedy. Man, I hate it that she struggles to keep her act together.

A constant narrative about her is that the teams including coaches and teammates are supposed to let her be her, which was underscored in interviews when she signed with the Aces. Never any focus on her working on her behavior and attitude outside of a reference to momentarily tolerating coming off the bench. So for behavioral therapy to work, the client has to first consider their behavior a problem than the problem being everyone else's acceptance of her behavior and attitude. So, a long way of saying that I agree with you Ivocd!

 

[Silence Dogood]

On Her Game: Caitlin Clark and the Revolution in Women's Sports​

Instant New York Times Bestseller!

A news-making and electrifying portrait of sports phenomenon Caitlin Clark, whose dramatic ascendance in college basketball and now in the WNBA has captured the attention of media and fans unlike any other female team-sport athlete in history—by award-winning USA TODAY columnist and television commentator Christine Brennan.

https://www.amazon.com/Her-Game-Caitlin-Revolution-Womens/dp/1668090198

 

[Silence Dogood]

In Letter, Lawmakers Seek 'accountability' From WNBA on Clark​

A group of 11 Republican lawmakers, led by U.S. Rep. August Pfluger of Texas, sent a letter to WNBA commissioner Cathy Engelbert on Wednesday demanding the league take "accountability" for "multiple attacks" against Indiana Fever star Caitlin Clark.

In the letter, Clark is described as "the face of your league" and someone who has generated fan interest, increased television ratings and new corporate sponsors. It suggests that the third-year guard is on the receiving end of "unnecessary physical hostility and violence," such as hip-checking, eye-poking and recently, being struck in the throat.

The lawmakers said they're concerned by reports that "attacks against Clark may be racially motivated."

https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/49309072/in-letter-lawmakers-seek-accountability-wnba-clark