Will Tennessee Make The NCAA's?

lvocd

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The LadyVols situation is the same situation UCLA had from 1976-1995 after John Wooden retired
I actually think the Lady Vols’ situation is even worse. (Hear me out!)

Yes, both are exactly the same in that both Wooden and Summitt were irreplaceable, once-in-a-lifetime icons of their respective sports, and it was always bound to be next to impossible for anyone to replace those legends.

Where they differ is that Gene Bartow, who immediately followed Wooden, actually led UCLA to the Final Four, and the Bruins were in good shape when he left to coach elsewhere. Bartow had been a successful HEAD COACH before he followed Wooden. And then Gary Cunningham did just about as well as Bartow did when he took over.

Holly, on the other hand, had never even wanted to be a head coach. Sure, I think she went on a couple of interviews over the years, but I think she knew herself that she wasn’t head coach material.

So, in that respect, I feel like Tennessee is FAR worse off than UCLA was. At least UCLA had a proven head coach immediately following their legend.
 

LasVegasBill23

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I actually think the Lady Vols’ situation is even worse. (Hear me out!)

Yes, both are exactly the same in that both Wooden and Summitt were irreplaceable, once-in-a-lifetime icons of their respective sports, and it was always bound to be next to impossible for anyone to replace those legends.

Where they differ is that Gene Bartow, who immediately followed Wooden, actually led UCLA to the Final Four, and the Bruins were in good shape when he left to coach elsewhere. Bartow had been a successful HEAD COACH before he followed Wooden. And then Gary Cunningham did just about as well as Bartow did when he took over.

Holly, on the other hand, had never even wanted to be a head coach. Sure, I think she went on a couple of interviews over the years, but I think she knew herself that she wasn’t head coach material.

So, in that respect, I feel like Tennessee is FAR worse off than UCLA was. At least UCLA had a proven head coach immediately following their legend.
Yes, I wish the AD put out a nationwide search at the time... Holly included... and search out who had the skill set and ability and motivation to LEAD and TEACH a team.... and not be a figurehead.... we need more buckets.... the other team wanted it more tonight..... if i knew what was wrong with the team i would fix it....
 

VolAmerican

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It will be hard for the committee to keep them out, since they’ve never missed a tournament, but if they get in they sure didn’t earn it. Pure charity, and will be a quick out. May even be a first round bounce.
 

creekdipper

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With respect to the posters comparing UCLA's post-Wooden era situation to ours, there is a glaring difference: Wooden went out on a high note. Due to her illness, Pat didn't.

UCLA won championships and appeared in Final Fours right up until Wooden retired, Pat's teams didn't make a Final Four her last four seasons, and the Baby Vols lost the infamous first-round game to Ball State. And that strange, awkward last year in which Holly was the floor coach with Pat on the bench was a sad and bittersweet farewell. The point is that Pat's final seasons took a toll on the program, and that fact may have helped influence the choice to give the job to Holly (along with Pat's wishes). She may have seemed to be a safe choice who had earned the chance to continue the tradition, and her early success with Pat's recruits masked the offensive deficiencies which had nagged the program for years. That bought her some time along with the false hopes that the program would return to Final Fours under her leadership. Nearly getting shut out in recruiting one year was offset by (as the university radio promos keep reminding us) "consecutive Top Five recruiting classes."

Unfortunately, the trend of under-performing on the court, disciplinary problems laeading to dismissals, transfers, etc. along with anemic half-court offense and baffling sideline moves (and indecision or inaction) fed the impression that the recent teams were unprepared and that Holly was being outcoached by colleagues with less talent at their disposal.

20-20 hindsight makes it easy to see that a fresh start was needed when Pat had to step down in order to continue her standards. But the last four years including this one should have made it painfully obvious that the program needs a clean beak as soon as the season ends. Holly was given every opportunity to succeed and hasn't (and the indications are that things will only get worse). The program is at a crossroads at which it can settle into permanent mediocracy or can begin the restorative process to elite status. A new coach will have her/his workk cut out and needs to be someone who likes a challenge. It really should represent an exciting opportunity, though, and one would hope that the current players and talented recruits would adopt the same attitude toward being "coached up" as the men's team when Barnes came on board.

At least the ascension of the man's program to Top Five status gives a template for a coaching staff to use and hold out as an example to the women. Ironic in that some of us can remember the days in which some suggested hiring Pat to coach the men in hopes that she could get the same championship efforts out of them.

Given the right decisions by all concerned, more glory days are ahead for the Lady Vols. I would sort of like to see it within my lifetime, Coach Fulmer.
 
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Volfan2012

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Chances turning again I think the winner of Tennessee vs LSU gets in the tourney and could move up their seeding by beating Miss St. Regardless of winning that game the winner of Tennessee vs LSU will get an NCAA birth. Amazing but it will happen. The RPI will actually improve will a loss to Miss St as will the SOS.
 

LA Vol

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The committee wants UT in the field. The LVs mean more tickets, higher viewership and higher ratings. It's all about revenue. And there's always the chance the LVs will have an "on" game and play lights-out. With their talent, they could beat anyone if they bring their best game. Hard to pass on a 19-win team that offers that.
 

LA Vol

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Where do you think Tennessee would be seeded if they beat both LSU and Mississippi State? I think Tennessee would be an 8 or 9 Seed then.
If they beat MSU, they'll probably make it to the SECCG. That should move them up quite a bit and put them in a favorable bracket. The thing about the LVs is, you never know what you're going to get. If they're on, they can give anybody a game. If they're flat, they could lose to anybody.
 

lvocd

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If they beat MSU, they'll probably make it to the SECCG. That should move them up quite a bit and put them in a favorable bracket. The thing about the LVs is, you never know what you're going to get. If they're on, they can give anybody a game. If they're flat, they could lose to anybody.
You're absolutely right. In the past they've lost to teams that they should have slaughtered by 50, and beaten teams they weren't thought capable of beating. Right now, Tennessee is among the most -- if not THE most -- enigmatic programs in the sport. That's why there are few opponents that I would give Tennessee absolutely zero percent chance of beating. Anything can happen, and sometimes they surprise us!

But for them to beat a well coached Mississippi State at this point, with their Amazon woman Teaira McCowan roaming the paint, it might take a minor miracle.
 

Amb3096

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You're absolutely right. In the past they've lost to teams that they should have slaughtered by 50, and beaten teams they weren't thought capable of beating. Right now, Tennessee is among the most -- if not THE most -- enigmatic programs in the sport. That's why there are few opponents that I would give Tennessee absolutely zero percent chance of beating. Anything can happen, and sometimes they surprise us!

But for them to beat a well coached Mississippi State at this point, with their Amazon woman Teaira McCowan roaming the paint, it might take a minor miracle.
MSST is top to bottom a better team. The difference between this team and past MSST teams is they have very talented players 1-9, instead of 1-2 standouts. On any given game, it could be McCowan, Howard, Espinoza Hunter, Danberry or Scott that goes off and leads the team. And it won't just be one of them contributing. Coupled with the mismatch that McCowan presents and the fact that Tennessee does not have a strong post game to counter, it might be more of a major miracle if they were to win, and they would need a lot of help from MSST.

If they were to win, they'd basically need to do it from outside. I infer nothing from the Ole Miss game. This is a team that lost pretty much their entire roster to defections with the coaching change. They have no post players, and there's only so much that Crystal Allen can do. In any event, they need to focus on LSU first, because that game is no gimme and they do have some dangerous players (and are equally desperate for a win).
 

LA Vol

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I think the committee would agree that MSU is a more complete team than UT. My point was, the LVs can beat LSU, play MSU competitively and still get in the NCAAT. There are benefits to having the LVs in, and $$$ matters. The LVs also can rise to the occasion and give anyone an exciting game. Most 11 seeds can't do that... but the LVs aren't your typical 11 seed. The committee sees that.
 

volmanNC

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The committee wants UT in the field. The LVs mean more tickets, higher viewership and higher ratings. It's all about revenue. And there's always the chance the LVs will have an "on" game and play lights-out. With their talent, they could beat anyone if they bring their best game. Hard to pass on a 19-win team that offers that.
Hmmm, when they would only last one or two games? Not sure the committee cares..

Jim
 

madtownvol

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The committee wants UT in the field. The LVs mean more tickets, higher viewership and higher ratings. It's all about revenue. And there's always the chance the LVs will have an "on" game and play lights-out. With their talent, they could beat anyone if they bring their best game. Hard to pass on a 19-win team that offers that.
The Lvs won't qualify to be a host site so the economic advantage is pretty well mitigated. I could be wrong but I don't think the Lady vols invoke the national attention they once did.
 

T_Vol376

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Holly supporters found their new scapegoat.

Personally I think Evina is good but she needs a coach like the one Jordan Bone has been blessed with.
What are you basing this statement on? I saw a lot of Holly supporters comdemning Sonya Howell’s post about E.

Also - she is not transferring over some stupid keyboard cowboy’s (who is talking out of their a**) comments. She is tougher than that.
 

lvocd

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Yes, I wish the AD put out a nationwide search at the time... Holly included... and search out who had the skill set and ability and motivation to LEAD and TEACH a team.... and not be a figurehead.... we need more buckets.... the other team wanted it more tonight..... if i knew what was wrong with the team i would fix it....
I actually do understand why a national search wasn't done in this special case. The program and its fans had already suffered so many devastating losses at the time that I think the entire Lady Vol community of players, coaches and fans alike probably needed to feel the type of sense of continuity that only bringing on someone whom everyone knows and loves -- someone closely connected to the program -- can offer.

From the damaging loss of our separate women's AD, to the loss of the Lady Vol logo to every program but basketball, to losing important longtime Lady Vol staffers like Debby Jennings and Jenny Moshak, and, worst of all, the horrific news that our beloved coach had a fatal disease, at that point I think everyone would have flipped out if Hart had done a nationwide search and hired someone outside the "Lady Vol Family." It would have felt like there was no more "Lady Vol legacy," and that would have been too much to bear.

So, I was on board with him hiring a former Lady Vol -- just not the one he hired.
 

madtownvol

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I actually do understand why a national search wasn't done in this special case. The program and its fans had already suffered so many devastating losses at the time that I think the entire Lady Vol community of players, coaches and fans alike probably needed to feel the type of sense of continuity that only bringing on someone whom everyone knows and loves -- someone closely connected to the program -- can offer.

From the damaging loss of our separate women's AD, to the loss of the Lady Vol logo to everyone program but basketball, to losing important longtime Lady Vol staffers like Debby Jennings and Jenny Moshak, and, worst of all, the horrific news that our beloved coach had a fatal disease, at that point I think everyone would have flipped out if Hart had done a nationwide search and hired someone outside the "Lady Vol Family." It would have felt like there was no more "Lady Vol legacy," and that would have been too much to bear.

So, I was on board with him hiring a former Lady Vol -- just not the one he hired.

Fantastic point. Holly's hire needs to be understood in the context of all that disruption and turmoil.

And in the midst all that controversy and sadness, Holly deserves some credit for keeping the program on a positive path during her first 3 years (which included the devastating injury to Izzy Harrison).

But coaching is not a business for the faint of heart. When coaches stop getting results, they are replaced. Most do not receive an extended grace period to right the proverbial ship. Holly has had that benefit and the resulting trajectory is just too dismal to let this situation continue beyond this season.
 

lvocd

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Fantastic point. Holly's hire needs to be understood in the context of all that disruption and turmoil.

And in the midst all that controversy and sadness, Holly deserves some credit for keeping the program on a positive path during her first 3 years (which included the devastating injury to Izzy Harrison).

But coaching is not a business for the faint of heart. When coaches stop getting results, they are replaced. Most do not receive an extended grace period to right the proverbial ship. Holly has had that benefit and the resulting trajectory is just too dismal to let this situation continue beyond this season.
Exactly. I think we're getting to the nitty-gritty with this exchange.
 

mike099

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Ironic that 2 former Lady Vols could help keep them out of the big dance. LSU and Missouri State. If they lose to LSU they will be out, I would think. If Missouri State(Kelly jolly Harper) wins the conference tournament they would be in and so would Drake(ranked) unless for some reason Drake loses in the opening round of the conference tournament). That could keep Tennessee out even if they beat LSU.
 

lvocd

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Ironic that 2 former Lady Vols could help keep them out of the big dance. LSU and Missouri State. If they lose to LSU they will be out, I would think. If Missouri State(Kelly jolly Harper) wins the conference tournament they would be in and so would Drake(ranked) unless for some reason Drake loses in the opening round of the conference tournament). That could keep Tennessee out even if they beat LSU.
o_O

The next couple of weeks are going to make me crazier than I already am. The waiting and wondering is going to be awful.
 

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