Why people are overvaluing week 1 point spreads (And how Vegas made a killing)

#1

Daloth

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#1
Warning, this is decently long:

I keep seeing people talk about how UT being 20.5 point favorites over appalachian state and our game being so close is a testament to how bad APP state actually is compared to how good UT is. But the thing is, that's now how betting lines or point spreads work. For an in depth explanation of exactly how Vegas wins money, this is a good start,

Why Sports Betting is Profitable - Winning Percentages


However, Vegas is about one thing and one thing only. Making money. Last year, they predicted nearly every single one of our games perfectly, including the games we didn't expect (OU and Alabama come to mind) and we were consistently favored over any team in the country on a neutral field in Vegas hypothetical scenarios. They had a damn good idea of just how good we were, and it is very unlikely they "forgot" how to properly rate every other college football team in this process, and that includes App State. They bet this way because they knew the games could go either way and legitimately wanted 50/50 betting roughly on both sides.

Vegas knew App state was coming in with 17 returning starters, including an elite QB in any conference, off an 11-2 season and a bowl win. They knew they had one of the best defenses statistically in the nation, and they knew they would play out of their minds with a full off season to prepare. They also have years of Debord and Butch in big games now and know they are Vanilla offensively as long as they can be early in the season. So, why would they give a team of APP states caliber (a team who is now favored to win THEIR next game by 21) such a huge point spread in such an obvious scenario for a closer game?

It's quite simple.

They wanted betters to jump on the hype train of Tennessee, and the lack of the general public knowing how good App State was, which they won't know until the end of the season after App state most likely goes undefeated the rest of the season.

Week 1 is when Vegas can "get hit" because nobody knows how good teams are, but teams like UT and App State, with very little coaching and player changes, are easier to predict for guys who's job is to follows sports, and teams, year round.

The huge spread was proven true for betters as the betting line slowly went from 20.5 to 22.5 by the start of the game. This means that the public bet heavily on Tennessee to beat the spread, which is what Vegas wanted. You set betting lines to get 50/50 bets to minimize losses in Vegas, but the line moving enormously like that means Vegas would either make a lot of money or lose a lot of money on the game.

Guess what happened? Vegas made a killing on this point spread. And they're going to use the public's perception that App State is "weak" to make even more money on Tennessee this weekend at Bristol with the 10 point spread. I wouldn't be shocked to see TN win this game by 3 TDs+ and Vegas make a killing on the average ignorant better 2 weeks into the season thinking VT must be much better than little APP state because they're in a big conference and have better players top to bottom.

We will see this again against UF regardless of what we do before them because of public perception, but once UF is over you can expect Vegas to start putting lines on us like normal, because with the money they've made off us (and a few other big teams losing, OU/Houston come to mind) they can be slightly more risky than normal at this point in the season.

After all, which is more likely... That Vegas took a risk to make a lot of money, or that they were 2 TD's off predicting a team that they had lines on nearly perfectly all of last year, even when talking heads and fans would claim they'd lose by multiple scores, in which very few of the important players left?

tl:dr

Don't take the huge spread against App State into thinking TN isn't as good because App State is terrible. Vegas used the media to make a ton of money off the ignorant average fan, like they do every year, because they know these teams better than their own coaches do.

And they are going to do it again this week in the opposite spectrum, and maybe try again once more against Florida. But pretty soon there will be too much tape for them to pull it off.
 
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#2
#2
:yes:As far as I can tell, OP...you're not altogether wrong. Maybe-just-maybe...you're altogether right. AMIRIGHT? What's the line in Vegas RE: UT vs. VT?
 
#3
#3
Great article, OP. How often do people have some mental disconnect between the betting line on a game and the actual predicted outcome.

App State is better than Va. Tech. Tennessee will beat that 10 point spread on the game and once again, the Vegas guys will clean up.
 
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#5
#5
They get a few wrong over the first couple weeks.

The lines will balance out as the season moves forward. First couple weeks you can really win some $$ but lines get more difficult into the season.
 
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#6
#6
All I know is Vegas made money off me because Dabo Swinney didn't kick a fg from the 23 yard line on fourth down with 0:40 to go...while only up six points.
 
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#7
#7
I got caught in the UT / Ap St, even though I knew most indicators were for a tighter game (but not as tight as it was). Bet with emotion, rather than facts. I usually minimize bets until week three
 
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#8
#8
This is an excellent post. Thanks for breaking this down for us and really showing how to "think like Vegas." Hoping they make another killing this weekend on our Vols!
 
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#10
#10
There's been a lot of justification for not playing well against App St. I am one who felt before the game that App St is very good and would be tougher than most anticipated. That doesn't change the fact that we played unacceptably poor against them. As a matter of fact, the more that we UT fans talk up App St now that the game is over, the more inexcusable it makes it that the offensive gameplan was so limited for the vast majority of the game. Its not just UT fans that underestimated App St (and, likewise, most sports bettors), the coaching staff appeared to think we could take about 8-10 plays (using various formations) and walk out of the game easily with a win.

This should be the reason UT fans are furious for Thursday's performance. It took a lucky fumble recovery in the endzone and a freshmen kicker unable to deliver a game winner in order to beat a (at best) Boise St-type of up-and-comer. On top of that, we had our highest preseason ranking in over 10 years. Also, we had the game moved from Saturday to Thursday. This was a great opportunity to showcase how we've arrived to the rest of the nation. Instead, we looked woefully overrated and, even worse, poorly coached. Yet, fans think CBJ being on some Saturday pregame show is great exposure for the team. I got a good laugh from some of those asinine comments. It'd be better to open your season like Bama or Michigan or OSU if you want to give your team great exposure -- especially in terms of recruiting. But with a gimmick-reliant clown for a coach who is more likely influenced by PT Barnum than any elite, cutthroat gameday coach I guess I should expect this kind of a$$backwards philosophy on gaining national exposure. It's unfortunate so many fans also applaud and fall in line with this mindset.
 
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#12
#12
All I know is Vegas made money off me because Dabo Swinney didn't kick a fg from the 23 yard line on fourth down with 0:40 to go...while only up six points.

i covered UGA and A&M and him not kicking the FG cost me 300...... you can imagine the amount of alcohol consumed that night hahaha.
 
#13
#13
Great article, OP. How often do people have some mental disconnect between the betting line on a game and the actual predicted outcome.

App State is better than Va. Tech. Tennessee will beat that 10 point spread on the game and once again, the Vegas guys will clean up.


Sun Belt Appy State is not better than VA Tech. Vegas sets lines to try and balance the action on both sides.......
 
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#14
#14
Sun Belt Appy State is not better than VA Tech. Vegas sets lines to try and balance the action on both sides.......

Yes, I can understand the concept behind a betting line. Sun Belt App State is better than Va. Tech. More on that later when they host Miami in two weeks.

More importantly the fact that Tennessee "underperformed" in the minds of "average betters" makes the betting line on this game much closer than the game will be. Tennessee easily covers
 
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#15
#15
There's been a lot of justification for not playing well against App St. I am one who felt before the game that App St is very good and would be tougher than most anticipated. That doesn't change the fact that we played unacceptably poor against them. As a matter of fact, the more that we UT fans talk up App St now that the game is over, the more inexcusable it makes it that the offensive gameplan was so limited for the vast majority of the game. Its not just UT fans that underestimated App St (and, likewise, most sports bettors), the coaching staff appeared to think we could take about 8-10 plays (using various formations) and walk out of the game easily with a win.

This should be the reason UT fans are furious for Thursday's performance. It took a lucky fumble recovery in the endzone and a freshmen kicker unable to deliver a game winner in order to beat a (at best) Boise St-type of up-and-comer. On top of that, we had our highest preseason ranking in over 10 years. Also, we had the game moved from Saturday to Thursday. This was a great opportunity to showcase how we've arrived to the rest of the nation. Instead, we looked woefully overrated and, even worse, poorly coached. Yet, fans think CBJ being on some Saturday pregame show is great exposure for the team. I got a good laugh from some of those asinine comments. It'd be better to open your season like Bama or Michigan or OSU if you want to give your team great exposure -- especially in terms of recruiting. But with a gimmick-reliant clown for a coach who is more likely influenced by PT Barnum than any elite, cutthroat gameday coach I guess I should expect this kind of a$$backwards philosophy on gaining national exposure. It's unfortunate so many fans also applaud and fall in line with this mindset.


"“Kids judge you by your car,” Jones said via the Knoxville News Sentinel. “It’s crazy.”

On this surface, this seems a little strange. Really, judging a coach by his car? But it makes sense that Jones would do everything in his power to leave a positive impression.

According to the Knoxville News Sentinel, Jones drives a Mercedes-Benz SLS with a sticker price of $221,580. Auburn coach Gus Malzahn bought a BMW i8 in March and gave recruit Tray Bishop a ride, a move that drew attention.

“It’s crazy, but that’s the world we live in, selling (and) trying to create those impressions,” Jones said. “So that’s very important.”

Hey, if fancy wheels lead to big wins later, why not go all out?" Saturday Down South, June 3 2016http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/te...-jones-joins-gus-malzahn-flashy-car-recruits/

I would rather see my coach simply win more decisively in games like App State (and stay off the Saturday shows when not). Take the car back to the dealer please, and let's start this season over this week.
 
#16
#16
App State is better than Va. Tech. Tennessee will beat that 10 point spread on the game and once again, the Vegas guys will clean up.

Many posters said this same type of thing in 2015 after the Bowling Green poor showing. Many were calling for the BG QB and WR's to be drafted which as we now know didn't happen. Now lots of folks wanting to talk up Appy to ease their disappointment in UT's poor showing.

Face the facts everyone, Appy's DL was markedly smaller than our OL yet they continually spanked them throughout the entire game - that was no fluke. None of the Appy DL will be playing in the NFL as they're not that talented. UT's O will again struggle to complete long passes in 2016 because the OL will not provide consistent protection to allow Dobbs to become comfortable as a pocket passer. Hurd will continue to get hit in the backfield and will earn every yard he gets in 2016. The OL has been basically a dumpster fire for 3 years and unless we see dramatic change there's no reason to think it will magically become a strong unit. Doesn't mean the Vols cant have a good season and win a lot of games, but there's going to be a lot of close ugly games based on this performance.

From my viewing, I don't think the DL performed as poorly as some have stated. Appy's RB found seams where it appeared none existed IMO more than the Appy
OL opening huge holes. I'm still optimistic for UT's 2016 defense.

They found some ways in 2015 to compensate for poor OL play so I'm hoping there's more of that in 2016. Something has to give within the coaching ranks of the OL...no way they should be this weak for 3 years running.
 
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