Why is it that a fired HC doesn't get many second chances?

#26
#26
Muschamp, Kiffin, and Orgeron are all retreads. That's 3 in one conference.

In reality, Jimbo Fisher is as well; he was going to get fired at Florida State if he stayed there (as the past 2 seasons that got Willie Taggart fired was actually the result of Jimbo's mess). He figured this out and got the heck out of dodge before it could happen.

So I don't think the OP's assertion is true. There are probably some "retreads" who were unfairly judged (I'd argue Taggart fits into that category), others who have gotten better as they've gotten old (Kiffin, Orgeron), others that were rightly fired but still get 2nd chances (e.g. Muschamp, Ron Zook), and then others that will rightly never get a 2nd chance.
 
#30
#30
Tennessee is kind of the outlier for this type of situation. It seems as though our hiring process has been so bad this past decade, that our coaches were so obviously over their heads and revealed for who they are.
 
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#31
#31
I'd say the #1 reason you don't see coaches rehired right away is buyouts. they make too much money NOT to coach.

Also there are coaches who have the good sense to move on from their current gig before they completely wear out their welcome. Urban Meyer comes to mind.
 
#32
#32
ksgovols said:
Watson Brown, Tommy Tuberville, Les Miles, Steve Sloan, Ron Zook, Danny Ford, Bill Curry, Ken Hatfield off the top of my head.
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The only coaches on that list that fits the OP fairly well is Ron Zook, Watson Brown, and Miles. Zook never had blazing success as a HC at UF or Illinois. Probably someone who should have slipped quietly back into his successful DC roles at the time. But, he is still involved at P% level as an analyst at Maryland. Miles was a head scratcher for me. See below for Watson.

Danny Ford 122-59-5 overall at Clemson and Arkansas. 5 ACC titles at Clemson, 6 bowl wins, and 1 NC. A tendency to get investigated by the NCAA is probably what got him retired after Arkansas, as he was very successful on the field.

Ken Hatfield started as a position coach UT in 1968 and other position and OC jobs after at UF and AFA., and moved on to head coaching at AFA, Arkansas, Clemson, and Rice retiring in 2005 at 62 with a total record of 168-140-4. not exactly unsuccessful, nor blackballed from P5.

Watson Brown was never blackballed, he was just a warm body when someone needed a coach, and retired from Tennessee Tech a few years ago as the all time losingest coach in NCAA history. Not a trend that keep you in P5 conferences. But, he had a very long coaching career to attain his record. Good players coach.

Tommy T - HC at Miss, AU, TxTech, and Cincy. Retired from Cincy in 2016 at 62. 159-99 overall and 7-6 in bowls with several conference and division titles in AAC and SEC. Like miles, he was on the backside and chose not to panhandle for jobs like miles did.

Steve Sloan - Oldie. Currently 75. HC at Vandy, TxTech, Ole Miss, Duke. Full HC career in P5. Retired from coaching in 1986 and served as AD following at Bama, UNT, UCF, UTC. Retired 2016. Career record less than .500 but was somehow able to maintain P5 jobs.

Bill Curry 77 years old now. P5 career at GT, Bama, KY. Came out of retirement on pre-arranged agreement with GA State to start up their football program, then would hand over to next coach. Not a stellar overall record best showing was 26-10 at Bama over 3 years. Not a way to keep a job there.
 
#33
#33
MWAVolfan said:
I'd say the #1 reason you don't see coaches rehired right away is buyouts. they make too much money NOT to coach.

Also there are coaches who have the good sense to move on from their current gig before they completely wear out their welcome. Urban Meyer comes to mind.
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no doubt that's what he does. he just has a strange way of doing it. He should go in saying I will coach x amount of years and move on.
 
#37
#37
Mack Brown was fired at Texas and North Carolina hired him. I don't know how well he will do. Gosh, he is almost as old as I am and I would not him me at my age.
 
#38
#38
VOLINVONORE said:
Mack Brown was fired at Texas and North Carolina hired him. I don't know how well he will do. Gosh, he is almost as old as I am and I would not him me at my age.
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I don't remember him being fired. I thought Mack resigned and basically said he was retiring.
 
#39
#39
I disagree with the "non-recycling" of coaches. Frankly, I'm astounded by the re-cycling. Coaches go to "conferences" in the off-season to shore up relationships just in case their agent has to reach out to one of them. It is the epitome of risk-management. Dooley as WR coach to Dallas after UT? Then to MZ as OC? I think there are many, many lower level coaches (even some high school coaches) that would nearly kill to get a shot as a minimal position coach to begin their climb up. Unfortunately, many are "tagged" b/c they decided to start their careers actually coaching instead of carrying a clip-board or being a grad-assistant and sucking up.
 
#41
#41
GVF said:
The only coaches on that list that fits the OP fairly well is Ron Zook, Watson Brown, and Miles. Zook never had blazing success as a HC at UF or Illinois. Probably someone who should have slipped quietly back into his successful DC roles at the time. But, he is still involved at P% level as an analyst at Maryland. Miles was a head scratcher for me. See below for Watson.

Danny Ford 122-59-5 overall at Clemson and Arkansas. 5 ACC titles at Clemson, 6 bowl wins, and 1 NC. A tendency to get investigated by the NCAA is probably what got him retired after Arkansas, as he was very successful on the field.

Ken Hatfield started as a position coach UT in 1968 and other position and OC jobs after at UF and AFA., and moved on to head coaching at AFA, Arkansas, Clemson, and Rice retiring in 2005 at 62 with a total record of 168-140-4. not exactly unsuccessful, nor blackballed from P5.

Watson Brown was never blackballed, he was just a warm body when someone needed a coach, and retired from Tennessee Tech a few years ago as the all time losingest coach in NCAA history. Not a trend that keep you in P5 conferences. But, he had a very long coaching career to attain his record. Good players coach.

Tommy T - HC at Miss, AU, TxTech, and Cincy. Retired from Cincy in 2016 at 62. 159-99 overall and 7-6 in bowls with several conference and division titles in AAC and SEC. Like miles, he was on the backside and chose not to panhandle for jobs like miles did.

Steve Sloan - Oldie. Currently 75. HC at Vandy, TxTech, Ole Miss, Duke. Full HC career in P5. Retired from coaching in 1986 and served as AD following at Bama, UNT, UCF, UTC. Retired 2016. Career record less than .500 but was somehow able to maintain P5 jobs.

Bill Curry 77 years old now. P5 career at GT, Bama, KY. Came out of retirement on pre-arranged agreement with GA State to start up their football program, then would hand over to next coach. Not a stellar overall record best showing was 26-10 at Bama over 3 years. Not a way to keep a job there.
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These are contrary to the OP. The OP said 1-4. Here's 8 that got jobs after being fired while I'm eating a sandwich. No googling.
 
#42
#42
OP has an interesting question. A few former SEC HCs come to mind.

Ray Goff
Jim Donnan
Phil Fulmer
Gene Chizik
Mike Shula
Sylvester Croom
Brad Scott
 
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#43
#43
Locksley at Maryland is another good example, may have missed it but Les Miles is one too. Fired coaches get 2nd chances all the time, loads of examples already mentioned.
 
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#44
#44
At elite SEC jobs, it's a little different if you are fired....

Goff, Donnan, Fulmer, Dooley, Butch, Shula, DuBose, Price, Zook, McElwain, Dinardo, Chizik, T. Bowden (didnt get another P5 HC job)

Miles, Richt, Muschamp, Tuberville - got significantly worse P5 gig

Richt was the only guy who didnt get a dead end job as a retread
 
#46
#46
My guess is OP means they don’t go directly back to a P5 job. Many have went back and worked their way back up, but almost none get to go directly over to a P5 job if they’re fired. Of course some of that is due to not willing to go to a much smaller P5 school. But it does seem funny that many more fired nfl coaches can go directly to another nfl head job.
 
#47
#47
Depends on former success and the reason why the coach was fired. Kiffin definitely did the appropriate route to HC. He showed he could mature and be an effective play caller. Took a small job and did fairly well there until he could get a downward trending Power 5 team that could use his offensive guru skills.
 
#48
#48
volberry said:
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?
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Les Miles, Will Muschamp, Lane Kiffin, Mark Richt, Ed Orgeron, Charlie Strong, Willie Taggard, Mike Leach, Kevin Sumlin, Kliff kingsbury, Bobby Petrino, Jim Mcelwain, David Cutcliffe....
 
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#49
#49
volberry said:
It happens a lot. A coach struggles at their job then gets fired. You hardly ever see them get recycled again at the top jobs. Coach O at LSU is just 1 of like 4 ever to have second chances. Are they put on a black list or something?
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Orgeron
Kiffin
Muschamp
Sumlin
Kelly
Brown
Strong
Cutcliffe
Miles
Harbaugh (Fired NFL)
L Smith (Fired NFL)
Schiano (Fired NFL)
Christobal

off the top of my head
 
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#50
#50
Most of them get 2nd and 3rd chances and often beyond. Look at Lou Holz and the number of HC jobs he had as an example. Les Myles, Saban, Charlie Weis, Howard Schnellenberger, and many others. The issue becomes if or when the idea stays attached to the person that they lost elsewhere what makes you think they can win here? They can job hop and resurrect themselves up until the idea sets in they just can't get it done any longer.
 
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