Why I'm still not panicking (caution: a hint of optimism here!)

#1
utfan72408

utfan72408

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#1
As expected, this forum has absolutely melted down tonight. The disapproval of Butch Jones (at least here) is at an all-time high... IMO even higher than after the Florida game. And for the first time, even I, who wanted Butch Jones even during Gruden-mania before he became a candidate, must admit that it is somewhat warranted. I thought he (and his staff) coached an atrocious game tonight. That's not the point of this post, though.

The point is this: Vandy will beat us maybe one more time. Maybe. Then their run is over. Our top-level recruiting class(es) will take over, and no matter how incompetent you might think Butch Jones and this staff is, we'll be talented enough to blow Vandy off the field just like old times and to at least be in every game. I guess what I'm saying is this: talent wins ballgames, and we have talent coming. A lot of it. So even if Butch is the worst game coach ever (he's not), if he keeps bringing in great classes, we're going to win games. It's that simple. Lots of great coaches (Bowden and Fulmer come to mind; there are others) won predominantly on talent as opposed to brilliant coaching.

Not making excuses here. Again, tonight was horrendous in every aspect. But still... Just give it time, and wait for the talent to improve (it will) before we start crucifying Coach Jones.
 
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#3
#3
All he needs to do is admit he was thoroughly out coached tonight and state he will fix it. He didn't and many fans are waiting.
 
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#4
#4
Even if Butch is able to sign all of the promised recruits, I have zero confidence in his and his staff's ability to coach them up.
 
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#5
#5
loservol said:
Even if Butch is able to sign all of the promised recruits, I have zero confidence in his and his staff's ability to coach them up.
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I hate to say this but I agree. If Butch wants to win in the sec he better overhaul his staff. The way they called this gm tonight was down right embarrassing.
 
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#7
#7
You'd have a point if there were any indications that the team had improved and not regressed or that this coaching staff was up to competing with even the 3rd tier coaches in the SEC like Franklin and Muschamp.

I like Jones. But HIS gameplan tonight was not worthy of being called the head coach of the University of Tennessee Volunteers. He played scared, not to lose football against VANDY. That... is nothing short of pathetic.
 
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#9
#9
This game was called horribly pure and simply. Here is what annoyed me. We have 2-3 receivers that are above 6" 4' and we don't throw a jump ball to them down at the Goal line. We throw passes on screens behind the line of scrimmage and expect the receivers to block it and move the DB/S/LB around instead of being physical at the line of scrimmage and throwing it down field 5-10 yards. When we need 8 yards we throw out routes 5 yards. They are huge men and we use them like they are 5ft 4. I've watched A&M a few times this year and they throw the ball up to Evans (who is 6ft 3+) numerous times. Why can't we do that? We have a fast guy like Pig and we run him around the end instead of putting him in the back field and getting a mismatch against a LB by using him on a wheel route. What happened to the calls like the FB in a wheel route in the Georgia game? That should have been called at least 1 or 2 times tonight.
 
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#11
#11
Auburn fan here. The problem with poor coaching staffs and clueless head-coaches is that "5-star" talent all of a sudden looks like 2 and 3-star talent if you dont have the right leadership in place.

Gene Chizik recruited. He won 3 games last year. The great majority of his highly recruited players looked like they didn't even understand the basic fundamentals of football.

If you guys are "holding out hope" on your recruiting saving you then I have some bad news for you. This league is too hard for that; all of the top teams recruit. Butch Jones and company are going to need to start showing that they can actually make some sort of impact on the field for you guys to win.
 
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#13
#13
A few of you are missing my point. Talent hides a lot of coaching deficiencies. Bad play-calling can be overcome by great talent. Bad in-game adjustments, bad discipline, bad game preparation... It can ALL be overcome by talent. The squad we have right now doesn't have that type of talent, so the flaws in Jones and his staff are not only visible, but magnified.

When we get his guys in here, all that will go away. It will become hidden. It might still be there, but we won't notice it like we do now. Because we'll be winning. Talent wins, regardless of coaching.
 
#15
#15
utfan72408 said:
A few of you are missing my point. Talent hides a lot of coaching deficiencies. Bad play-calling can be overcome by great talent. Bad in-game adjustments, bad discipline, bad game preparation... It can ALL be overcome by talent. The squad we have right now doesn't have that type of talent, so the flaws in Jones and his staff are not only visible, but magnified.

When we get his guys in here, all that will go away. It will become hidden. It might still be there, but we won't notice it like we do now. Because we'll be winning. Talent wins, regardless of coaching.
Click to expand...

I really hope you aren't naive enough to seriously believe this...
 
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#16
#16
metafour said:
Auburn fan here. The problem with poor coaching staffs and clueless head-coaches is that "5-star" talent all of a sudden looks like 2 and 3-star talent if you dont have the right leadership in place.

Gene Chizik recruited. He won 3 games last year. The great majority of his highly recruited players looked like they didn't even understand the basic fundamentals of football.

If you guys are "holding out hope" on your recruiting saving you then I have some bad news for you. This league is too hard for that; all of the top teams recruit. Butch Jones and company are going to need to start showing that they can actually make some sort of impact on the field for you guys to win.
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Unfortunately, a lot of fans don't get this. For instance, with better coaching last years team would have won 8 or more games. I commend you on your good post.
 
#17
#17
utfan72408 said:
A few of you are missing my point. Talent hides a lot of coaching deficiencies. Bad play-calling can be overcome by great talent. Bad in-game adjustments, bad discipline, bad game preparation... It can ALL be overcome by talent. The squad we have right now doesn't have that type of talent, so the flaws in Jones and his staff are not only visible, but magnified.

When we get his guys in here, all that will go away. It will become hidden. It might still be there, but we won't notice it like we do now. Because we'll be winning. Talent wins, regardless of coaching.
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UT may have the talent to overcome mistakes against Vandy or UK... but that's not going to win championships. If you are OK with being a 2nd tier program.... if that's your goal then undercoaching good talent will be just fine.

UT isn't going to recruit so well that talent will cover up the kind of incompetence we've seen the last 4 games against the top tier of the SEC.
 
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#18
#18
metafour said:
Auburn fan here. The problem with poor coaching staffs and clueless head-coaches is that "5-star" talent all of a sudden looks like 2 and 3-star talent if you dont have the right leadership in place.

Gene Chizik recruited. He won 3 games last year. The great majority of his highly recruited players looked like they didn't even understand the basic fundamentals of football.

If you guys are "holding out hope" on your recruiting saving you then I have some bad news for you. This league is too hard for that; all of the top teams recruit. Butch Jones and company are going to need to start showing that they can actually make some sort of impact on the field for you guys to win.
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Hmmm. Interesting points. You make a valid argument. Yet I'd still make the case that Chizik won an NC, which would be a clear instance of talent overcoming incompetent coaching. Take last year's Florida team. I certainly don't think Muschamp is or was a good coach; but he had fantastic talent that won despite his poor preparation and lack of discipline. I was very young during our best Fulmer years, but my dad always said it was the same way with Fulmer. Can't personally vouch for that though.
 
#22
#22
govols1976 said:
So Alabama hasn't had very good talent? Lsu not very good talent? Wake up or go to bed. Talent wins!!!!
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LSU has more talent than UT is ever likely to have on a regular basis. And they choke because of Miles.

Bama wins championships because along with elite talent... they have elite coaching.
 
#23
#23
sjt18 said:
UT may have the talent to overcome mistakes against Vandy or UK... but that's not going to win championships. If you are OK with being a 2nd tier program.... if that's your goal then undercoaching good talent will be just fine.

UT isn't going to recruit so well that talent will cover up the kind of incompetence we've seen the last 4 games against the top tier of the SEC.
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How can you say that for sure though? There is no way to know. Again, the incompetence you see is doubtless magnified by the lack of talent on the field. And there's also the argument that the personnel doesn't fit the system. For some reason, people HATE that argument (not sure why), but I feel there has to be some degree of validity to it.

And for the record, a 2nd-tier program would certainly be better than what we are now, would it not? Though I agree, that's not my goal for our program either.
 
#24
#24
If you don't think Les Miles has done a pretty good job at Lsu than you need to stop watching football because you are totally lost my friend
 
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