Why did Butch Jones get us so close, where Dooley and Pruitt didn't?

Why did Butch Jones get us so close, where Dooley and Pruitt didn't?

He was the best coach of the three. Simple as that. This answer will hold true after Heupel has been added to the list and is gone. Butch will learn to not say goofy things and win football games at the same time.
LOL... I hope you don't actually believe that. Jones is a middling mid-major coach at VERY best. His results were primarily due to a rare group of UT bound recruits that fell into his lap. If he were any kind of coach at all... there was at least one and probably 2 East titles in that group.

Butch Jones' coaching is MUCH more reflected by his last two years than his first 3.
 
In one sense no but in another sense yes. The choices of Jones and Pruitt to stick with JG contributed heavily to them being fired. It was not JG's "fault" that they chose him... he worked hard and did all he could... but it was his poor performance on the field that made their choices bad.
SJT, as a leader, I'd think you would completely reject that type of argument.

In a leadership position, you have the authority to make any changes you believe will serve the organization, at any time. You're paid to achieve success. If you don't have the team assets you need to get there, you have authority to go out and get new assets. This is all 100% on the leader.

It'd be as if you have a project manager for the team who keeps missing deadlines because, try as he might, he can't get the timing right. He's simply incapable. So you have the choice. Replace him or fail. That's 100% your choice, not the lad's; he's doing the best he can, it's just not good enough. If you get fired, it will not have been his fault. It will have been yours.

I don't mean to dehumanize people, but from a systems analyst perspective, it can be likened to this other example: grocery boy keeps dumping customers' groceries on the asphalt on the way to the car. He insists on single-bagging the groceries. He's been told he should double bag, but he keeps using single bags. A single bag is not strong enough for some groceries. It does its best, but it is what it is, and can't change. It's the grocery boy who had the means to solve things. If he gets fired, it is 100% on him.
 
Butch is the best coach of those three. He just didn't handle adversity very well. I think he will have success at Arkansas State.

Dooley was the worst coach...by a large margin.

Um how many times did you see our line unable to lineup correctly under Dooley?
 
He was a fantastic recruiter that couldn't coach or develop talent.

Add to it that he actually had some decent coordinators and assistants early on, but the quality of his staff eroded as he went along to where it was terrible at the end.
 
We started four who went on to NFL.

Tiny was the 5th guy.

We had a strong pass blocking offensive line.
 
SJT, as a leader, I'd think you would completely reject that type of argument.

In a leadership position, you have the authority to make any changes you believe will serve the organization, at any time. You're paid to achieve success. If you don't have the team assets you need to get there, you have authority to go out and get new assets. This is all 100% on the leader.

It'd be as if you have a project manager for the team who keeps missing deadlines because, try as he might, he can't get the timing right. He's simply incapable. So you have the choice. Replace him or fail. That's 100% your choice, not the lad's; he's doing the best he can, it's just not good enough. If you get fired, it will not have been his fault. It will have been yours.

I don't mean to dehumanize people, but from a systems analyst perspective, it can be likened to this other example: grocery boy keeps dumping customers' groceries on the asphalt on the way to the car. He insists on single-bagging the groceries. He's been told he should double bag, but he keeps using single bags. A single bag is not strong enough for some groceries. It does its best, but it is what it is, and can't change. It's the grocery boy who had the means to solve things. If he gets fired, it is 100% on him.
I don't disagree with that and tried to say that. There are two components in getting fired. There's the guy's bad judgment and the failure of the guy they put faith in.

Maybe think of it as a boss who gets fired because he refuses to stop protecting an incompetent employee. The incompetence of the employee is the basis for why the boss got fired.
 
I'm sure it's been mentioned almost 100 times so far but Dobbs, Kamara and Hurd are the answers to this. And honestly we were never even close. We finished two games out of the SEC title game in his best year which included beating Florida and UGA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Volatility
I'm sure it's been mentioned almost 100 times so far but Dobbs, Kamara and Hurd are the answers to this. And honestly we were never even close. We finished two games out of the SEC title game in his best year which included beating Florida and UGA.
One game out, wasn't it? We did lose two games down the stretch, but if we'd won either of them, we would've clinched the East.

That's how frustratingly close we were: a win over Vandy would've done it.

EDIT: Just went back and checked, you're right, we were 2 games down at the end. Wow, my memory totally botched that one.
 
Obviously it's pretty much a consensus that our last 3 coaches weren't the answer. However for whatever reason, Butch Jones got us pretty damn close to where we wanted to be. We came SO close (and should have) to winning the east two straight years! Rather than dwelling on the reasons why Butch blew it, I would like to look at it from another point of view. What did he do right to get us that close where the other two coaches couldn't even sniff that much success? Was it recruiting? Was it motivation? Was it luck? I'm just curious as to how Butch almost touched success here where the other two weren't even close.

He was a better coach than the other two.
 
I’ve largely avoided this place since the Kentucky game because this place is miserable even when things are going well. Alas, Tennessee football just keeps calling me like Pookie. As others have said, the difference is Dobbs.

I think that Barnett must be considered Butch’s best player since he is our all time sack leader. That’s a huge feat that must be recognized. Kamara is obviously the most talented player Butch had given what he has done in the NFL. All that being said, Dobbs was a playmaker at the most important position. Butch would have been fired after year three without Dobbs.

A better coach would have at least won the division in 15 and 16 and set us up for further success, but here we are. Unfortunately, I think our problem is doomed unless we luck into the second coming of Vince Lombardi.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFL-82-JP
Butch was a good recruiter and he had the personal. He had Dobbs and he had a formidable defense. Hurd and Kamara also. He had better impact players.
 
Butch had some good skill players. Heupel better find some good skill players or he won't last long either. The game is geared toward offense now. The rules favor that side of the ball. Getting the best skill guys you can makes the most sense to me..
 
Obviously it's pretty much a consensus that our last 3 coaches weren't the answer. However for whatever reason, Butch Jones got us pretty damn close to where we wanted to be. We came SO close (and should have) to winning the east two straight years! Rather than dwelling on the reasons why Butch blew it, I would like to look at it from another point of view. What did he do right to get us that close where the other two coaches couldn't even sniff that much success? Was it recruiting? Was it motivation? Was it luck? I'm just curious as to how Butch almost touched success here where the other two weren't even close.

He had Dobbs, what did he do without Dobbs
 
Butch had a house of cards supported by Dobbs. The injuries and transfers were ridiculously high. And you saw what OL Pruitt inherited when he came in.
 
He did great at selling the vision and program to the in-state recruits. UT still a good but slightly tarnished brand at the time. His downfall seemed to be tied to not giving assistants space to coach, lying in recruiting, and lack of leadership. Dobbs helped him tremendously also.
Butch abused his players and we are lucky he didn’t get the university sued.
 
  • Like
Reactions: b_gann
Great offense (2015, 2016)
Great defense (2015)
Great STs just about every year

Imo he focused pretty well on both sides and understood importance of each. Hype seems to have a similar mindset.

Pruitt was all defense and every thought he had on offense was egregiously bad. Every talented tweener ended up on defense. Dooley was all offense and hardly even recruited defense.

Must have balance.
 
2nd argument would be Butch had experience being a HC at multiple stops and knew how to build.

Dooley was a losing La Tech coach for god's sake and Pruitt of course was a 1st timer.

Hype doesn't have quite as much experience as Butch did coming in, but he learned under Stoops, actually played the game of football, and his offenses have been far more profilic than Butch's ever were.

I have big hopes for Hype.
 
  • Like
Reactions: b_gann
A million posts here saying talent wasn’t developed under Butch, but I disagree. At least, that wasn’t his downfall. We were at least average at that.

Except in one critical area, and that was offensive line. After the one he inherited graduated, they were terrible. Especially in pass blocking.

And then it’s easy to forget this part, but pretty every game, points were left on the board to constant clock management errors, weird personnel decisions, etc... Butch Jones was just a terrible, awful decision maker and didn’t think well under pressure IMO.

Ultimately, I think Butch was half a good coach. And the other half was pretty bad.
 
Butch: better overall coach, but tried too hard to be someone he wasn't, and it all caught up to him
Dooley: great offensive mind, but arrogance got the best of him
Pruitt: most genuine of the three & more of a players' coach than the other two, but too old-school and (apparently) difficult to work with

We seemed close with Butch for many of the reasons already mentioned, but also because he did a great job selling the program to recruits & the fanbase. Can't take that away from him- great hype man. I think he can still be a very solid coach, but he was too thin-skinned.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFL-82-JP

VN Store



Back
Top