Why Can’t Holly Be Pat

#27

madtownvol

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#27
You know, I find it interesting. Somebody posted a clip of Pat with her 2007 National Championship team during halftime, in the Final Four (I believe). Pat talked in general terms about defense and rebounding, and being physical. The team bought into it, was yelling back at her, and was telling her stuff they saw that they needed to do. When it came to the assistant coaches giving advice, Holly stepped up and mentioned something specific about some type of zone defense. Everybody sorta of nodded and said, yes remember that. But it wasn't the stuff that would make someone knock somebody's block off. You could see it in Pat's face (as well as the players), they sorta gave a nod to Holly (out of sympathy or perhaps duty), but it was obvious that she was in no way "coach" of the team. Of course I can't say (I really have no idea and will admit to such), but maybe it's that fire that's missing. When Pat said something, they yelled back, "YES!" When Holly offered advice, they simply shrugged and said, "yeah." I can't say it's fair, but you could sorta see, that some folks have it (that ability to get every last ounce of someone) and unfortunately some don't.
Just my opinion but I think these "rah, rah" scenes get way over valued. You can look at lots of teams and the coaches can produce these same kind of "Remember the Titans" scenes but don't get championship results (and remember these "behind the scenes" shots are done with a full awareness that these interactions are being broadcast to the world; no right minded coach would do more than something generic and uninformative to competitors).

What wins games and championships is everything that goes on before the game in terms of preparing players, getting them to understand their roles and positions and developing the skills needed to succeed. Yes, a coach's ability to motivate that extra effort when the chips are down can be a difference maker but some coaches can motivate in a more low key fashion and all the motivation in the world won't help if the preparation is not in place.

Pat Summit was not a great coach because of "the stare" or her motivating half-time talks, she was a great coach due to all the things most fans never see but players take with them forever.
 
#28
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#28
Just my opinion but I think these "rah, rah" scenes get way over valued. You can look at lots of teams and the coaches can produce these same kind of "Remember the Titans" scenes but don't get championship results (and remember these "behind the scenes" shots are done with a full awareness that these interactions are being broadcast to the world; no right minded coach would do more than something generic and uninformative to competitors).

What wins games and championships is everything that goes on before the game in terms of preparing players, getting them to understand their roles and positions and developing the skills needed to succeed. Yes, a coach's ability to motivate that extra effort when the chips are down can be a difference maker but some coaches can motivate in a more low key fashion and all the motivation in the world won't help if the preparation is not in place.

Pat Summit was not a great coach because of "the stare" or her motivating half-time talks, she was a great coach due to all the things most fans never see but players take with them forever.
That will just about Summitt up
 
#30

Volfan2012

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#30
I personally do not want Holly to be Pat, though I truly miss Pat, the only thing I want her to do is keep the Lady Vol program as one of the best women’s basketball programs in the country. There will never be another Pat Summitt, we must all move on from that dream. We recruit 5 stars, and though I realize that not all 5 stars are going to be super stars, however, these are the same 5 stars that are recruited by other top programs. We have the facilities and the talent and really should not be concerned about making the NCAA’s or worried about doing well in the SEC tournament. I believe the pieces are there, we just need someone to put it all together.
Nobody expected Holly to be Pat but I thought she would at least keep the program in contention for the SEC Champion and the SEC tournament championship. She might possibly make the final four one every three years of so and certainly make the NCAA tourney. If the program can't at least keep up to that standard with the talent were still able to recruit then what does this say about Holly as a coach. She hasn't go it done anywhere but recruiting then they come in and play like inferior players anyway so what is the point of being name the number one class or number 8 class if your going to be a bottom feeder in the SEC. Losing to weak teams like Bama, Arkansas, and Georgia shows that these girls are not getting the coaching they need . Every player that comes in here can't be an overrated players but they still have to be developed to play at this level otherwise you see what is happening now. Only people to blame is the coaching staff they are responsible for developing these players into a team. The players change through the years but the results stays the same or gets worse. I think it is because of Holly and her staff unless someone can give me a better reason why we fail year after year.
 
#31

LasVegasBill23

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#31
Pat and Holly 2 different people with 2 entirely different skill sets.... my hope was that Holly would teach the game and coach effectively... but all I have seen is a team that falls woefully short in the fundamental skills of what should be expected in a major NCAA program.... and these things never get fixed
 
#32

creekdipper

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#32
Tennessee will not be winning the SEC anytime in the next 5 years. Even if they get a top notch coach, SC and MSST are in really nice position to continue to dominate the SEC.
Don't think that's necessarily true. No one could have predicted that Barnes would develop a team of overachievers that would not only lead the conference but be ranked #1. And there are a lot more good teams in the men's game vs. the women's.

A Holdsclaw, Taurasi, Parker, Moore, Stewart, etc. doesn't come along every day, but such a cornerstone/lynchpin player can have an immediate impact and make a team a contender not only for a conference championship but for a natty. It's no accident that MSST had lost about 3 dozen consecutive games to UT but has won 5 of the last 6 games. Even the one-off champions over the past 20 years had one dominant go-to player the team was built around. The Lady Vols get plenty of supporting talent to be successful; they just need that one player (barring a Fab Five situation which rarely happens in WCBB).

TN can still draw such players along with the crucial role players as long as they know they will be coached well, enjoy the experience, and have a reasonable chance to compete for championships. It might take a few years to establish a new culture and bring in players who crave being "coached up" (like the current men's team), but I could see it happening within 3 seasons given the right coach and players.

They'd certainly have the total support from the fans. Be nice to see the house packed again (we were at the late 80's game vs. Texas when around 20,000 filled the place to the rafters).
 
#33

TenUhSee

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#33
Pat and Holly 2 different people with 2 entirely different skill sets.... my hope was that Holly would teach the game and coach effectively... but all I have seen is a team that falls woefully short in the fundamental skills of what should be expected in a major NCAA program.... and these things never get fixed
Holly ..... skill set ?

spit beer.gif
 
#34

secfanclub

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#34
There is a difference between a coach who is liked vs. a coach that is respected...........guess which one Pat was?

You are correct. Pat coached by commanding her players attention and with the expectation to give nothing but their best effort. If players could not give what Pat expected, they didn't play until they were willing to change. We are seeing the same from Coach Rick Barnes. Players with the right attitude and the expectation to win will give their best effort to play for a demanding coach. Not all coaches have the gift of extracting the best effort from players, but Pat was a master at it. Unfortunately, Holly tries to go about it differently because it is not her style of coaching. Holly tries to be more of a "friend" to her players which in almost every situation will not push good players to become even better or great players.
 
#35
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#35
You are correct. Pat coached by commanding her players attention and with the expectation to give nothing but their best effort. If players could not give what Pat expected, they didn't play until they were willing to change. We are seeing the same from Coach Rick Barnes. Players with the right attitude and the expectation to win will give their best effort to play for a demanding coach. Not all coaches have the gift of extracting the best effort from players, but Pat was a master at it. Unfortunately, Holly tries to go about it differently because it is not her style of coaching. Holly tries to be more of a "friend" to her players which in almost every situation will not push good players to become even better or great players.
They need a coach in the mix, they can't impress.
That's all

You think this group would have impressed Pat?

I do.
Because
When it came to her....they had no choice
 
#36

secfanclub

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#36
They need a coach in the mix, they can't impress.
That's all

You think this group would have impressed Pat?

I do.
Because
When it came to her....they had no choice


This group would have impressed Pat only if they gave the effort she expected. Pat had a few players over the years who ended up on the bench and some eventually transferred because they didn't meet her standards to play. So, players always had a choice with Pat. If they wanted to play, they had to "choose" to do what Pat expected.
 
#37

Amb3096

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#37
Don't think that's necessarily true. No one could have predicted that Barnes would develop a team of overachievers that would not only lead the conference but be ranked #1. And there are a lot more good teams in the men's game vs. the women's.

A Holdsclaw, Taurasi, Parker, Moore, Stewart, etc. doesn't come along every day, but such a cornerstone/lynchpin player can have an immediate impact and make a team a contender not only for a conference championship but for a natty. It's no accident that MSST had lost about 3 dozen consecutive games to UT but has won 5 of the last 6 games. Even the one-off champions over the past 20 years had one dominant go-to player the team was built around. The Lady Vols get plenty of supporting talent to be successful; they just need that one player (barring a Fab Five situation which rarely happens in WCBB).

TN can still draw such players along with the crucial role players as long as they know they will be coached well, enjoy the experience, and have a reasonable chance to compete for championships. It might take a few years to establish a new culture and bring in players who crave being "coached up" (like the current men's team), but I could see it happening within 3 seasons given the right coach and players.

They'd certainly have the total support from the fans. Be nice to see the house packed again (we were at the late 80's game vs. Texas when around 20,000 filled the place to the rafters).
If Tennessee gets a new coach, then sure...they would be back in the mix. But as long as Holly is HC, the SEC will remain a two-team show between SC and MSST. Vic will build his team around Rickea, except his role players will be better. Staley will have talent, size and depth throughout the roster...especially if Cooper stays another year. Tennessee will have skilled players with low bball IQ on the perimeter and a suspect inside game. Keys and Saunders will need 2-3 years of solid coaching before they are impact players, and that will not happen playing for Holly. The only way this team of McD AA's resembles a cohesive team instead of the East or West squad is to get a real coach.
 

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