Who goes to Bama-Smartt or Pruitt?

#76

05_never_again

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#76
It’s not uncommon for coaches to have first year struggles. Saban lost to ULM and I’m sure I can find a bad loss for Dabo. Richt’s teams were weak on the lines and he got a frost QB. That’s not exactly the recipe for success. Lincoln Riley is considered one of the best offensive minds in college football and Smart shut his offense down in the second half after half time adjustments. I’d also say he bought himself some equity considering he had UGA’s best season in 30+ years. Too early to tell if he’ll be elite or not, but I’d say he’s good considering he’s one of the few active coaches to take a team to a national championship.
Saban also inherited a team that went 6-6 the year before and wasn't what I'd call loaded with talent. Kirby inherited a team that went 9-3 and was quite talented on paper.

I think Kirby is a really good coach, but it's just too early to conclusively say he's better than Richt because Richt's Georgia teams played a lot like Kirby's did early in his tenure. Both coaches won 8 games in their first year. Richt's second year Georgia team won the SEC and would have been in the CFP if it existed, for example. Richt also lost the SECCG in his 3rd year, just like Kirby. It's eerily similar. Time will tell is Kirby can surpass Richt.
 
#77

Atlanta917

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#77
Saban did everything Smart did during his first 3 years at LSU: won the SEC in year two, lost in the SECCG in year three.



Saban won a national title in year 3 at Bama, and he took over a worse team than Smart did at UGA.
I know Saban did in year 3 at bama. The point is he was a veteran coach at that point. Expecting a third year coach to mirror a veteran Saban’s success isn’t rational. Just like the comparisons of richt and smart aren’t honest. Richt never recruited like smart and never made it to a national championship. People saying smart is the same as richt act like Richt was fired after his first 3 seasons and never fell off. The game passed Richt by in a noticeable way. Just look at his time at Miami.
 
#78

05_never_again

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#78
I know Saban did in year 3 at bama. The point is he was a veteran coach at that point. Expecting a third year coach to mirror a veteran Saban’s success isn’t rational. Just like the comparisons of richt and smart aren’t honest. Richt never recruited like smart and never made it to a national championship. People saying smart is the same as richt act like Richt was fired after his first 3 seasons and never fell off. The game passed Richt by in a noticeable way. Just look at his time at Miami.
If the CFP didn't exist, Kirby wouldn't have made it to a national title (yet) either. Georgia was the 3 seed in the CFP in 2017. If a playoff existed in 2002, Richt would have made it as the #4 and might have played for a title too. So you kind have to adjust for the differences in the eras there.

I know it makes Georgia fans like you nervous, but the fact remains that Kirby's first 3 years and Richt's first 3 years are eerily similar, even down to specific games that they won/lost. Richt's first 3 years went #22, #3, #7. Kirby's first 3 years went NR, #2, #7. Both won 8 games in their first year. Both won the SECCG in their second year, and Richt would have made a 4-team playoff if it existed. Both had regular season losses at LSU and lost in the SECCG in their third year, although Richt lost to the team that won the national title (Kirby did not). Richt also had a loss to Florida in his third year that Kirby did not. Still similar though.

Richt had that program really running in the early 2000s, clearly superior to Tennessee and Florida, and it looked like Georgia was about to embark on a huge run of dominance in that division (sound familiar?) that never materialized. Urban initially ate his lunch, then the game started to pass him by as you said. Now, I'll admit there isn't much in common between Kirby and Richt personality and demeanor-wise, and you are correct that Kirby is recruiting at an elevated level to Richt (although Richt recruited really well too). Perhaps that bodes well for Kirby relative to Richt.
 
#79

VolForLife83

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#79
Smart is a Dawg. Don't make sense for him to leave GA, unless the dollar figure was too high to resist. I read a Dabo article and he seemed to shut it down, but as I continued reading, he seemed very open to it. Pruitt hasn't proved anything yet, so him being discussed as a replacement at this point is silly
 
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#80

GVF

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#80
This is a joke right? Richt bested Dooley's win percentage. Smart took his players the first couple years and did well. Richt would have too. Smart choked also. Richt is the better person and coach. Smart is not. When smart has had enough years under his belt there, then let's compare notes.
 
#83

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#83
Not my point. Lots of good coaches haven’t won one. The idea that Smart is not a good coach is laughable.

I never said Smart wasn't good. I said he was a blow hard and would never measure up to the others as a complete coach. Reading comprehension is your friend. And I'm old, so if I did type it wrong I get a pass.
 
#84

volfanhill

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#84
I never said Smart wasn't good. I said he was a blow hard and would never measure up to the others as a complete coach. Reading comprehension is your friend. And I'm old, so if I did type it wrong I get a pass.
You said he would never measure up to Richt. He already has.
 
#85

GVF

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#85
You said he would never measure up to Richt. He already has.

Not even close. That's only 2 years worth of records verses how many sustained years by Richt. Again, reading comprehension. I said COMPLETE coach. As in Smart don't have all the tools in his bag. And I referenced other coaches besides just Richt. And you were measuring by titles won. It was your point. You said so right in your reply that you don't remember Richt playing for one, but recanted that wasn't your point when I asked about mike Martin.
 
#86

DWright39

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#86
I don’t think either of them will. I don’t think it would be a smart career decision to go to Bama after Saban. I also feel like If Pruitt has Tennessee rolling hard enough for Bama would be interested, Tennessee itself would be back to full power and it really wouldn’t make sense to leave. Maybe it’s the Tennessee fan in me but I feel like a Tennessee program at full power would be just as nasty as a Bama program at full power.
 
#87

05_never_again

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#87
You said he would never measure up to Richt. He already has.
Not yet. If Kirby stays there for about 10 more years and never surpasses what he's already achieved in his first 3, but also doesn't fall off too much, then he will have measured up to Richt.

Again...Dawg people are quick to point out that Kirby has already played for a title, something Richt never did. We need to do some adjusting for the eras though. Kirby got a chance to play for a title as the #3 ranked team in the country, which was something that didn't exist when Richt was coaching early in his tenure at Georgia. Richt would have been in the CFP, if it existed, in 2002. He would have been the 4 seed matched up against 1 seed Miami. He would have had to have won that game to get into the CFP Final (and a hell of a storyline, coaching against his alma mater), but he at least would have had a shot at a title. Kirby and Richt's achievements through their first 3 years at UGA are almost identical.
 
#88

volfanhill

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#88
Not even close. That's only 2 years worth of records verses how many sustained years by Richt. Again, reading comprehension. I said COMPLETE coach. As in Smart don't have all the tools in his bag. And I referenced other coaches besides just Richt. And you were measuring by titles won. It was your point. You said so right in your reply that you don't remember Richt playing for one, but recanted that wasn't your point when I asked about mike Martin.
Yes if he gets hit by a bus tomorrow he will have fallen short. His best season in Athens was more successful then any season Richt had. He only needs one more SEC title to match Richt. Nothing suggests there will be a fall off. He is even recruiting at a higher level then Rich thus far.
 
#89

Atlanta917

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#89
If the CFP didn't exist, Kirby wouldn't have made it to a national title (yet) either. Georgia was the 3 seed in the CFP in 2017. If a playoff existed in 2002, Richt would have made it as the #4 and might have played for a title too. So you kind have to adjust for the differences in the eras there.

I know it makes Georgia fans like you nervous, but the fact remains that Kirby's first 3 years and Richt's first 3 years are eerily similar, even down to specific games that they won/lost. Richt's first 3 years went #22, #3, #7. Kirby's first 3 years went NR, #2, #7. Both won 8 games in their first year. Both won the SECCG in their second year, and Richt would have made a 4-team playoff if it existed. Both had regular season losses at LSU and lost in the SECCG in their third year, although Richt lost to the team that won the national title (Kirby did not). Richt also had a loss to Florida in his third year that Kirby did not. Still similar though.

Richt had that program really running in the early 2000s, clearly superior to Tennessee and Florida, and it looked like Georgia was about to embark on a huge run of dominance in that division (sound familiar?) that never materialized. Urban initially ate his lunch, then the game started to pass him by as you said. Now, I'll admit there isn't much in common between Kirby and Richt personality and demeanor-wise, and you are correct that Kirby is recruiting at an elevated level to Richt (although Richt recruited really well too). Perhaps that bodes well for Kirby relative to Richt.
Kirby's second year was better than any year Richt ever had. He beat more ranked teams that season than Richt ever beat in a single season, he swept the SEC East which Richt never did, and he won a game that got him to the NC which Richt never did. When people use the argument about Richt and Smart having similar records in their first 3 years they leave out the part that Richt wasn't fired for his first 3 years. Kirby took Richt's players to a place Richt couldn't take them. While Smart was doing that Richt was failing at Miami. Its certainly possible that Kirby falls off like Malzahn, but my point is the Richt comparison is a bad for two reasons. The first is that Richt never made it to a title. The process in which you get there is irrelevant. The second is that argument makes it seem like Richt was fired after his third year. He was fired after going 8-5, 10-3, and 9-3. Currently Smart is going to the playoffs once every 3 years, winning the SEC once every 3 years, and winning/sweeping the East two out of every three years.
 
#90

05_never_again

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#90
Kirby's second year was better than any year Richt ever had. He beat more ranked teams that season than Richt ever beat in a single season, he swept the SEC East which Richt never did, and he won a game that got him to the NC which Richt never did. When people use the argument about Richt and Smart having similar records in their first 3 years they leave out the part that Richt wasn't fired for his first 3 years. Kirby took Richt's players to a place Richt couldn't take them. While Smart was doing that Richt was failing at Miami. Its certainly possible that Kirby falls off like Malzahn, but my point is the Richt comparison is a bad for two reasons. The first is that Richt never made it to a title. The process in which you get there is irrelevant. The second is that argument makes it seem like Richt was fired after his third year. He was fired after going 8-5, 10-3, and 9-3. Currently Smart is going to the playoffs once every 3 years, winning the SEC once every 3 years, and winning/sweeping the East two out of every three years.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that Kirby's second year isn't better than any year Richt had, or that Richt was fired because of his first 3 years. It's just that Kirby and Richt's first 3 years are very similar results-wise, which leads you to wonder how long that similarity might continue. If it does continue, then Kirby has already experienced his best years at Georgia.

The process in which Kirby got to play for a title is relevant in the context of comparing him to Richt. Like I said, Richt would have been in the CFP in his second year if the CFP existed in 2002. He would have had a chance to play for a title, something he didn't have at the time because he wasn't in the top 2. If the CFP didn't exist for Kirby, he wouldn't have played for a title during his first 3 years. So the parallel is there.
 
#91

GVF

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#91
Kirby's second year was better than any year Richt ever had. He beat more ranked teams that season than Richt ever beat in a single season, he swept the SEC East which Richt never did, and he won a game that got him to the NC which Richt never did. When people use the argument about Richt and Smart having similar records in their first 3 years they leave out the part that Richt wasn't fired for his first 3 years. Kirby took Richt's players to a place Richt couldn't take them. While Smart was doing that Richt was failing at Miami. Its certainly possible that Kirby falls off like Malzahn, but my point is the Richt comparison is a bad for two reasons. The first is that Richt never made it to a title. The process in which you get there is irrelevant. The second is that argument makes it seem like Richt was fired after his third year. He was fired after going 8-5, 10-3, and 9-3. Currently Smart is going to the playoffs once every 3 years, winning the SEC once every 3 years, and winning/sweeping the East two out of every three years.
A testament to the condition Richt left Smart, and what Richt inherited at Miami. He had no roster there.
 
#92
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#92
Dabo is bright enough to let a guy or two head up Bama before he goes there himself. Pruitt has to have a winning record at UT before getting any consideration of being offered the Bama job. Smart won't go unless his seat is starting to warm up. How long will UGA tolerate great recruiting classes but on the outside looking in when it comes to an NC? They gave Richt over ten years I don't see Kirby having a leash that long, he's a great recruiter, solid defensive coach, but a marginal game day coach IMO.
Won a SECC and played for another, plus a NC, in his first 3 seasons as a HC. If Pruitt does that will you call him “marginal”? Saban didn’t have nearly those accomplishments his first 3 seasons.
 
#93

GVF

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#93
I don't think anybody is suggesting that Kirby's second year isn't better than any year Richt had, or that Richt was fired because of his first 3 years. It's just that Kirby and Richt's first 3 years are very similar results-wise, which leads you to wonder how long that similarity might continue. If it does continue, then Kirby has already experienced his best years at Georgia.

The process in which Kirby got to play for a title is relevant in the context of comparing him to Richt. Like I said, Richt would have been in the CFP in his second year if the CFP existed in 2002. He would have had a chance to play for a title, something he didn't have at the time because he wasn't in the top 2. If the CFP didn't exist for Kirby, he wouldn't have played for a title during his first 3 years. So the parallel is there.



And let's not forget the character of Richt, on field and off. His integrity and willingness to discipline his players, even if it cost him a season (and it has) is how a coach should run his program. And he was still UGA's winningest coach. He administered several suspensions and dismissals at crucial times for a season's ultimate success or failure. Not many have that commitment to a program's health. At Miami, I think he just realized he didn't desire to continue coaching and he did the program a favor and walked away. Or, that the state of that program required a younger coach, and walked away. Either way, took a lot of moxy to do that knowing the eventual fallout.

And Kirby may well surpass Richt at UGA. But, he's too young in his career to make that call. But, to be the TYPE of coach Richt was, he's got some growing to do. My point back to my first post was not the ability to win or lose. It was Kirby not being a COMPLETE coach as was Richt, Miles, etc. Whoever else I mentioned. That'll take time to see if he matures in to the mold of the older elites or just another college coach.
 
#94

05_never_again

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#94
Won a SECC and played for another, plus a NC, in his first 3 seasons as a HC. If Pruitt does that will you call him “marginal”? Saban didn’t have nearly those accomplishments his first 3 seasons.
Saban won a title in year 3, but your point still stands.

About 95% of the "marginal game day coach" narrative about Kirby comes from the botched fake punt in the SECCG. Yes, that was a huge play, but it was one play. I'm still impressed at his defensive adjustments in the second half of the Rose Bowl against Oklahoma, or the adjustments they made to clobber Auburn in the SECCG after getting blown out by them a few weeks before.
 
#96

Atlanta917

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#96
I don't think anybody is suggesting that Kirby's second year isn't better than any year Richt had, or that Richt was fired because of his first 3 years. It's just that Kirby and Richt's first 3 years are very similar results-wise, which leads you to wonder how long that similarity might continue. If it does continue, then Kirby has already experienced his best years at Georgia.

The process in which Kirby got to play for a title is relevant in the context of comparing him to Richt. Like I said, Richt would have been in the CFP in his second year if the CFP existed in 2002. He would have had a chance to play for a title, something he didn't have at the time because he wasn't in the top 2. If the CFP didn't exist for Kirby, he wouldn't have played for a title during his first 3 years. So the parallel is there.
The process is irrelevant. Both coaches knew the process when they signed up. Richt even got a shot at the playoff and missed it. Also, how do you know what the BCS rankings would've been in 2017? Without knowing those you can't definitively know UGA would've finished third. The comparison is disingenuous because you cherry pick Richt's best years and leave out his worst. Its pretty clear that Richt wasn't the same coach in his last years at UGA. By using cherry picked numbers and a small sample size someone can create any narrative they want. That's like me leaving out Smart's first year and saying Smart will never lose a game in the East because he's undefeated against all SEC East teams the past two years. I can also say Smart goes to the playoffs once every 3 years. Though true, the small sample size makes the statement misleading. There is no connection between Richt's time at UGA and Smart's other than Smart taking Richt's players where Richt couldn't.
 
#97

Atlanta917

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#97
You wan't to compare Smart's first 3 years at UGA to Saban's at Toledo and sanction-riddled MSU?
Just as illogical as comparing a coach's 20th year to another coach's 3rd. Smart also had more success than Saban during his first three years at LSU too. Saban went 8-4, 10-3, and 8-5 his first three years at LSU.
 
#98
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#98
Oh, I'm not saying that at all. There's two extremes to the argument, and they are equally dumb. One is "Kirby is a choker and is never going to suceed," and the other is "Kirby did more than Saban and Dabo in less time." Both ignore the circumstances.
Anyone who looks at Kirby’s body of work his first three years as HC and gets “choker” out of it is uninformed, at best. No CFB analyst would agree with that premise.

Kirby and Dabo are staying put. If Pruitt does marginally well at UT, he’ll get an interview, as probably will Fleck, Kingsbury and Aranda.

Saban’s a tough act to follow, and it will take a good, young, energetic coach to fill the position, or someone like Pruitt with Bama ties.
 

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