What was Kellie's problem at N.C. State?

#51

Darth_Vol

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#51
Herein lies the root of my uncertainty: her record shows she was not a very different coach. For a decade.

Far be it from me to be all about the record; I've argued non stop that Holly's record is not representative of her coaching ability. Also I totally get that KJH has never had the resources and opportunity she now has. She very well may sprout elite level coaching wings and fly, I sure hope she does. Also of course we won't know for a while. But still, a 15 yr coaching record that barely breaks even gonna worry me.
You are not the only one who feels like you're taking crazy pills. The only reason Harper was a serious candidate is because she is a former Lady Vols. The only reason she got the job is one impressive postseason run. This season. If Missouri State had lost in the conference championship game, I'll wager we would have a different head coach right now.

The only defense I've seen on the forum is "she's better than Holly!!!" No, you're hoping she's better than Holly, when there is little factual evidence to support that assumption. There was a lot of grumbling about her record when her name came up, but now she sure looks a lot like Pat so she's great. I guess many here have been conditioned to mediocrity for so long that change just to change is exciting, even if it looks like a lateral move...
 
#52

VA_VOLFAN

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#52
You are not the only one who feels like you're taking crazy pills. The only reason Harper was a serious candidate is because she is a former Lady Vols. The only reason she got the job is one impressive postseason run. This season. If Missouri State had lost in the conference championship game, I'll wager we would have a different head coach right now.

The only defense I've seen on the forum is "she's better than Holly!!!" No, you're hoping she's better than Holly, when there is little factual evidence to support that assumption. There was a lot of grumbling about her record when her name came up, but now she sure looks a lot like Pat so she's great. I guess many here have been conditioned to mediocrity for so long that change just to change is exciting, even if it looks like a lateral move...
Well one factual thing she’s done is able to keep her team together so far which CHW was not able to do so that’s a positive note...
 
#54
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#54
Herein lies the root of my uncertainty: her record shows she was not a very different coach. For a decade.

Far be it from me to be all about the record; I've argued non stop that Holly's record is not representative of her coaching ability. Also I totally get that KJH has never had the resources and opportunity she now has. She very well may sprout elite level coaching wings and fly, I sure hope she does. Also of course we won't know for a while. But still, a 15 yr coaching record that barely breaks even gonna worry me.

I often see KJH referred to as a "young" coach. 15 yrs in? 40 yrs old? Is that young in coaching years?
I can 100% assure you, she is the same coach she was at NC State unfortunately.
 
#57

BreatheUT

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#57
Herein lies the root of my uncertainty: her record shows she was not a very different coach. For a decade.

Far be it from me to be all about the record; I've argued non stop that Holly's record is not representative of her coaching ability. Also I totally get that KJH has never had the resources and opportunity she now has. She very well may sprout elite level coaching wings and fly, I sure hope she does. Also of course we won't know for a while. But still, a 15 yr coaching record that barely breaks even gonna worry me.

I often see KJH referred to as a "young" coach. 15 yrs in? 40 yrs old? Is that young in coaching years?
Let's hope the access to better recruiting and resources will mean better recruits. It's difficult to not have some skepticism if you're being honest because she is a career 6 win and 4 loss coach.

I hope as time goes on I have legitimate reason to be on board but I won't delusionally call it a success story as we stand today. Darth hit on if not her being a former Lady Vol and then this well timed Sweet 16 run, which is only two wins, I don't think we are taking about her as coach. That made them able to justify the hire.

A couple of recruiting wins and some organized, fundamental play and we might be on to something.
 
#58

Lurker

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#58
The characteristic that gives me the most hope for KJH's future at UT is that she was a solid leader by example in her playing days. I don't know that she will be some kind of a trans-formative basketball genius as the coach of the Lady Vols, but if she can recruit players, I am betting (based on her past actions) she will lead them to play a consistently good brand of basketball and that alone will be a giant step forward. We won't know for a while, but if she holds this team together over the off season, she will have a chance to prove her abilities as quickly as next year. The cupboard is not bare. Fingers crossed.
 
#59

PRG

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#59
The characteristic that gives me the most hope for KJH's future at UT is that she was a solid leader by example in her playing days. I don't know that she will be some kind of a trans-formative basketball genius as the coach of the Lady Vols, but if she can recruit players, I am betting (based on her past actions) she will lead them to play a consistently good brand of basketball and that alone will be a giant step forward. We won't know for a while, but if she holds this team together over the off season, she will have a chance to prove her abilities as quickly as next year. The cupboard is not bare. Fingers crossed.
We have seen the (Holly Offense .... stagnant) and the bullfighting type of defense (Olay) ! As we wave the player towards our basket!

Anyone who has ever played the game.... coached the game .... or just watched this game of basketball, recognizes fundamental skills and some sort of offense/defense schemes! This is ALL I would ask ! Just stop the stupid stuff and have some semblance of organized basketball..... I could once again enjoy watching a game without screaming at the TV and scaring my dog to death! My wife always seems to have to go to the neighbors just before the game starts and comes home just after the game is over ..... Why is that ? 🤷‍♂️
I think the recruiting is going to get tighter as we have had plenty of playing time and starting positions for high ranking recruits. But as we approach 12-15 players the playing time may make getting top recruits harder to come by ?
 
#60
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#60
The characteristic that gives me the most hope for KJH's future at UT is that she was a solid leader by example in her playing days. I don't know that she will be some kind of a trans-formative basketball genius as the coach of the Lady Vols, but if she can recruit players, I am betting (based on her past actions) she will lead them to play a consistently good brand of basketball and that alone will be a giant step forward. We won't know for a while, but if she holds this team together over the off season, she will have a chance to prove her abilities as quickly as next year. The cupboard is not bare. Fingers crossed.
My biggest concern is that she apparently is bringing her staff with her. I remember Butch Jones doing the same thing, thinking that what worked at Cincinnati would work in the SEC. I was hoping that Kellie would realize that what worked at Missouri State will not work at UT. I do see Kellie as a leader but I did not see much imagination on offense, something that has plagued former Lady Vols coaches, such as Caldwell-Vargus and Holly. Of course, they played in an era when defense and rebounding were more important. Today offense is just as important and I do not think that Holly or Vargus have recognized this.

Furthermore, recruiting is the single most important factor in success--not just recruiting the All-Americans but evaluating talent. We all know that in the women's game being named all-American is largely political. I was hoping that she would hire an outstanding recruiter who put fear into Geno and Kim and Muffett and that she would hire an offensive guru to help her with this deficiency. If this meant not including her husband as a coach, so be it.

At any rate, I do support her and wish her nothing less than complete success. I just do not want to wait three years for her to realize that she needs the best assistant coaches available. Sometimes it is best to get out of her comfort zone and hire people who might know more than she about recruiting and offense. I have complete confidence in her ability to coach defense and rebounding--just not as confident about recruiting and offense based on the games I watched at MS and NCS.
 
#61

vettefool

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#61
You are not the only one who feels like you're taking crazy pills. The only reason Harper was a serious candidate is because she is a former Lady Vols. The only reason she got the job is one impressive postseason run. This season. If Missouri State had lost in the conference championship game, I'll wager we would have a different head coach right now.

The only defense I've seen on the forum is "she's better than Holly!!!" No, you're hoping she's better than Holly, when there is little factual evidence to support that assumption. There was a lot of grumbling about her record when her name came up, but now she sure looks a lot like Pat so she's great. I guess many here have been conditioned to mediocrity for so long that change just to change is exciting, even if it looks like a lateral move...
What you say is correct but just maybe a breath of fresh air will do wonders. Yep I question her coaching record and you are right that she would not be our coach without the late season run. Now that is a concern.
 
#62

VA_VOLFAN

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#62
My biggest concern is that she apparently is bringing her staff with her. I remember Butch Jones doing the same thing, thinking that what worked at Cincinnati would work in the SEC. I was hoping that Kellie would realize that what worked at Missouri State will not work at UT. I do see Kellie as a leader but I did not see much imagination on offense, something that has plagued former Lady Vols coaches, such as Caldwell-Vargus and Holly. Of course, they played in an era when defense and rebounding were more important. Today offense is just as important and I do not think that Holly or Vargus have recognized this.

Furthermore, recruiting is the single most important factor in success--not just recruiting the All-Americans but evaluating talent. We all know that in the women's game being named all-American is largely political. I was hoping that she would hire an outstanding recruiter who put fear into Geno and Kim and Muffett and that she would hire an offensive guru to help her with this deficiency. If this meant not including her husband as a coach, so be it.

At any rate, I do support her and wish her nothing less than complete success. I just do not want to wait three years for her to realize that she needs the best assistant coaches available. Sometimes it is best to get out of her comfort zone and hire people who might know more than she about recruiting and offense. I have complete confidence in her ability to coach defense and rebounding--just not as confident about recruiting and offense based on the games I watched at MS and NCS.
I was intrigued by your statement that she is bringing her staff with her and I saw that the only person she brought with her was her husband. The rest of of her staff is still on the Mo St. website. Her two assistants and even her Director of Basketball Opps (Ashley Houts who was a good player in the SEC at UGA). So if anything it looks like at most she is just bringing her husband. I can’t imagine Jackie Stiles leaving her alma mater and she is still dealing with serious health issues.

Not saying she won’t bring her staff but I would expect her husband take one of the spots. Which leaves two spots open for other assistants.

But I am in agreeement an assistant coach geared toward the offensive side of the ball and to inject new ideas would be a huge benefit to this program!
 
#63

VA_VOLFAN

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#63
My biggest concern is that she apparently is bringing her staff with her. I remember Butch Jones doing the same thing, thinking that what worked at Cincinnati would work in the SEC. I was hoping that Kellie would realize that what worked at Missouri State will not work at UT. I do see Kellie as a leader but I did not see much imagination on offense, something that has plagued former Lady Vols coaches, such as Caldwell-Vargus and Holly. Of course, they played in an era when defense and rebounding were more important. Today offense is just as important and I do not think that Holly or Vargus have recognized this.

Furthermore, recruiting is the single most important factor in success--not just recruiting the All-Americans but evaluating talent. We all know that in the women's game being named all-American is largely political. I was hoping that she would hire an outstanding recruiter who put fear into Geno and Kim and Muffett and that she would hire an offensive guru to help her with this deficiency. If this meant not including her husband as a coach, so be it.

At any rate, I do support her and wish her nothing less than complete success. I just do not want to wait three years for her to realize that she needs the best assistant coaches available. Sometimes it is best to get out of her comfort zone and hire people who might know more than she about recruiting and offense. I have complete confidence in her ability to coach defense and rebounding--just not as confident about recruiting and offense based on the games I watched at MS and NCS.
Also a poster just posted something about Z. Green. It looks as if there were some academic issues that weren’t dealt with by the previous staff so it may have been a condition of her being hired that she may need to find all new assistants.

I would have liked to see Coach Reeves kept on staff but maybe she couldn’t be ? I am just guessing off what was posted but it may have been needed to clean house and start a new.
 
#65
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#65
I was intrigued by your statement that she is bringing her staff with her and I saw that the only person she brought with her was her husband. The rest of of her staff is still on the Mo St. website. Her two assistants and even her Director of Basketball Opps (Ashley Houts who was a good player in the SEC at UGA). So if anything it looks like at most she is just bringing her husband. I can’t imagine Jackie Stiles leaving her alma mater and she is still dealing with serious health issues.

Not saying she won’t bring her staff but I would expect her husband take one of the spots. Which leaves two spots open for other assistants.

But I am in agreeement an assistant coach geared toward the offensive side of the ball and to inject new ideas would be a huge benefit to this program!
I was referring to her recruiting coordinator who was not at MState last year but had been with Kellie for several years. From all accounts she has done a good job but can she compete with the top programs? Maybe. I want Harper to have the best assistants as Barnes and Pruett do. And maybe I have no reason to be concerned. We will find out in November.
 
#66

VA_VOLFAN

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#66
I was referring to her recruiting coordinator who was not at MState last year but had been with Kellie for several years. From all accounts she has done a good job but can she compete with the top programs? Maybe. I want Harper to have the best assistants as Barnes and Pruett do. And maybe I have no reason to be concerned. We will find out in November.
I agree ! I know there was a position for recruiting after the 2016 debacle that wasn’t a coach so I wonder if she would slide into that role? I think once we see the make up of her complete staff we will have a better idea too. I would love for one of the Baylor assistants to come here and work with the posts.
 
#67
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#67
Just a housekeeping note.

It's Nikki Fargas, not Vargas.

Vargas was the guy who painted those lush foldouts for a certain bunny magazine. Also did the cover of a classic Cars album.
Fargus!! I knew that but I am getting so old that I still think of her as Caldwell when she was dating Carl Pickens and Pat was telling her that she could do so much better! I will try to do better in the future.
 
#69

mcannon1

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#69
My biggest concern is that she apparently is bringing her staff with her. I remember Butch Jones doing the same thing, thinking that what worked at Cincinnati would work in the SEC. I was hoping that Kellie would realize that what worked at Missouri State will not work at UT. I do see Kellie as a leader but I did not see much imagination on offense, something that has plagued former Lady Vols coaches, such as Caldwell-Vargus and Holly. Of course, they played in an era when defense and rebounding were more important. Today offense is just as important and I do not think that Holly or Vargus have recognized this.

Furthermore, recruiting is the single most important factor in success--not just recruiting the All-Americans but evaluating talent. We all know that in the women's game being named all-American is largely political. I was hoping that she would hire an outstanding recruiter who put fear into Geno and Kim and Muffett and that she would hire an offensive guru to help her with this deficiency. If this meant not including her husband as a coach, so be it.

At any rate, I do support her and wish her nothing less than complete success. I just do not want to wait three years for her to realize that she needs the best assistant coaches available. Sometimes it is best to get out of her comfort zone and hire people who might know more than she about recruiting and offense. I have complete confidence in her ability to coach defense and rebounding--just not as confident about recruiting and offense based on the games I watched at MS and NCS.
Very insightful post Bsport. In the wonderful video of the practice, Coach Harper was working on blocking out.....

Jennifer Sullivan, most recently at Ohio State, is Harper's assistant, again. Her twitter handle is @coachsully10. I'm going to go look up who she was able to recruit to Ohio State.
 
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#70

creekdipper

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#70
Fargus!! I knew that but I am getting so old that I still think of her as Caldwell when she was dating Carl Pickens and Pat was telling her that she could do so much better! I will try to do better in the future.
Hey, it happens to all of us.

I thought she was dating some old dude wearing blue suede shoes.
 

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