What to expect based on Heupel's time at Mizzou

[rocky top buzz]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT. I was impressed with his time at Mizzou, but now that I look back, I'm really not.

2016 - This season is much worse than I remembered. They went 4-8. Almost all of their loses were by double digits except georgia, losing 28-27. Their other closest loss was shockingly MTSU who beat them 45-51. My concern here is did he inherit more talent at UT? Normally I would say yes but with the transfer portal who knows.

2017 - Here again he is worse than I recalled, mainly because I recall the 50-17 beat down. They started off going 1-5 but put things together winning their last 6 games including UT and florida. That sounds impressive until you realize that both UT and florida missed bowls that season.

I think what's worse, 2018 Mizzou was a lot better without him. When you look back on his time at Mizzou, am I right that they had 0 wins against SEC teams with winning records? The only thing really impressive to me about his time at Mizzou was their 6 game winning streak but when you dig into the teams they beat, it's not that impressive. I hope I'm wrong about him. I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

 

[SpookyAction]

I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

That is your key idea. Get it done on defense, and we have a winner. Be average on defense and we can be pretty good, which will be a big improvement.

 

[ThreatLevelOrange]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT. I was impressed with his time at Mizzou, but now that I look back, I'm really not.

2016 - This season is much worse than I remembered. They went 4-8. Almost all of their loses were by double digits except georgia, losing 28-27. Their other closest loss was shockingly MTSU who beat them 45-51. My concern here is did he inherit more talent at UT? Normally I would say yes but with the transfer portal who knows.

2017 - Here again he is worse than I recalled, mainly because I recall the 50-17 beat down. They started off going 1-5 but put things together winning their last 6 games including UT and florida. That sounds impressive until you realize that both UT and florida missed bowls that season.

I think what's worse, 2018 Mizzou was a lot better without him. When you look back on his time at Mizzou, am I right that they had 0 wins against SEC teams with winning records? The only thing really impressive to me about his time at Mizzou was their 6 game winning streak but when you dig into the teams they beat, it's not that impressive. I hope I'm wrong about him. I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

Mizz averaged over 500 yards a game for both years, which proves it can work in the SEC. Even in that poor 2016, they hung about 700 yards on us in defeat. It will come down to defense.

 

[rocky top buzz]

Mizz averaged over 500 yards a game for both years, which proves it can work in the SEC. Even in that poor 2016, they hung about 700 yards on us in defeat. It will come down to defense.

Yes but that only tells part of the story. They lost 51-14 to Auburn in 2017. They gained 340 yards on offense but they had 4 turnovers. Kiffin's biggest win in 2009 with beating uga in a blowout. What was Heupel's biggest win while at mizzou? Or even at UCF, who has he actually beaten?

 

[sjt18]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT. I was impressed with his time at Mizzou, but now that I look back, I'm really not.

2016 - This season is much worse than I remembered. They went 4-8. Almost all of their loses were by double digits except georgia, losing 28-27. Their other closest loss was shockingly MTSU who beat them 45-51. My concern here is did he inherit more talent at UT? Normally I would say yes but with the transfer portal who knows.

2017 - Here again he is worse than I recalled, mainly because I recall the 50-17 beat down. They started off going 1-5 but put things together winning their last 6 games including UT and florida. That sounds impressive until you realize that both UT and florida missed bowls that season.

I think what's worse, 2018 Mizzou was a lot better without him. When you look back on his time at Mizzou, am I right that they had 0 wins against SEC teams with winning records? The only thing really impressive to me about his time at Mizzou was their 6 game winning streak but when you dig into the teams they beat, it's not that impressive. I hope I'm wrong about him. I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

Was Heupel the DC? When you score over 30 ppg in the SEC and aren't winning... your OC isn't the problem.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that Heupel's success may come down to finding a D and DC that can compliment his O. I also don't think it is a stretch to say that Mizzou would have been even worse without that O. They hired a HC who was a supposed defensive guru (sound familiar?)... who struggled to stop opponents.

 

[Otis1105]

Oh man, you are about to get drug through the volnation sewers!! Your concerns are valid and researched, but I hope you brought your thick skin today!

 

[rocky top buzz]

Was Heupel the DC? When you score over 30 ppg in the SEC and aren't winning... your OC isn't the problem.

I don't think it is a stretch to say that Heupel's success may come down to finding a D and DC that can compliment his O. I also don't think it is a stretch to say that Mizzou would have been even worse without that O. They hired a HC who was a supposed defensive guru (sound familiar?)... who struggled to stop opponents.

That would sound great, but they got better in 2018 with Dooley as OC. They beat florida again, but this time the gators were ranked in the top 15. I understand he wasn't the head coach at Mizzou. I'm just concerned that they didn't win more and didn't beat anyone of value.

 

[BeardedVol]

Can we expect 'Drew Lock'?

 

[TnVol!]

I expect him to win.

 

[Special Ed]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT.

I wonder if he would send a crate of those fits to my house.
I haven't been able to get anything to fit lately.

 

[allen phillips]

Oh man, you are about to get drug through the volnation sewers!! Your concerns are valid and researched, but I hope you brought your thick skin today!

I am not going to drag him through the sewers, but he is telling only one side of the coin. As has been noted, the defenses on those teams were God awful. I believe in telling both sides of the story if you want to prove your point.

 

[volsknx]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT. I was impressed with his time at Mizzou, but now that I look back, I'm really not.

2016 - This season is much worse than I remembered. They went 4-8. Almost all of their loses were by double digits except georgia, losing 28-27. Their other closest loss was shockingly MTSU who beat them 45-51. My concern here is did he inherit more talent at UT? Normally I would say yes but with the transfer portal who knows.

2017 - Here again he is worse than I recalled, mainly because I recall the 50-17 beat down. They started off going 1-5 but put things together winning their last 6 games including UT and florida. That sounds impressive until you realize that both UT and florida missed bowls that season.

I think what's worse, 2018 Mizzou was a lot better without him. When you look back on his time at Mizzou, am I right that they had 0 wins against SEC teams with winning records? The only thing really impressive to me about his time at Mizzou was their 6 game winning streak but when you dig into the teams they beat, it's not that impressive. I hope I'm wrong about him. I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

Compare his time there with Dooley's time there. Which was better?

 

[sjt18]

That would sound great, but they got better in 2018 with Dooley as OC. They beat florida again, but this time the gators were ranked in the top 15. I understand he wasn't the head coach at Mizzou. I'm just concerned that they didn't win more and didn't beat anyone of value.

They got better for a year then sank like a rock. So who gets credit? Dooley didn't take Lock from being on the verge of busting to one of the best SEC QB's. Heupel did that. Once Lock was gone, Dooley had no answers.

I'm concerned about a lot of things. I think this was a "good" hire in part because I think he would be easier to separate than a guy like Malzahn. At the same time, I am choosing to be hopeful and open to good possibilities too. I like Heupel's character and how he went about building a surprisingly good staff. I like the prospects of seeing UT score points after watching the last several years. Without Dobbs and that big S on his chest... UT would have scored 30 ppg in a year only twice since 2004... Dobbs made it 4.

I am personally optimistic about the O. There are four potentially great options at QB. UT has a ton of talent at WR. The scheme will take pressure off the OL. I think UT may still struggle against the best opponents but will be exciting in a lot games.

The D is a different matter. I hope the DC and staff are great coaches or else it could be ugly.

 

[BDP!]

Yes but that only tells part of the story. They lost 51-14 to Auburn in 2017. They gained 340 yards on offense but they had 4 turnovers. Kiffin's biggest win in 2009 with beating uga in a blowout. What was Heupel's biggest win while at mizzou? Or even at UCF, who has he actually beaten?

He was never the HC at Mizzou.....at UCF I couldn't tell you.

 

[ORANGEMARLIN 2.0]

A lot of butt kicking. Period

 

[ptcarter]

Can we expect 'Drew Lock'?

Apologize for dredging up JG's shortcomings. Just as in the case of Alvin Kamera, you never know what kind of talent you have on the bench until they get meaninful playing time. We might just have a Drew Lock in the wings and Pruitt couldn't figure it out. Let's hope so anyway.

 

[TnAngler]

Exactly how is the defense giving up so many points at Mizzou his fault. He was a QB coach and OC, his job was to score points and they did.

 

[Otis1105]

So here are 2016 scores.. offense didn’t do enough in the losses there in spite of the defense except for 1 game.

 

[Otis1105]

Exactly how is the defense giving up so many points at Mizzou his fault. He was a QB coach and OC, his job was to score points and they did.

and here is 2017 scores. More of the same.. not enough to beat the better teams! Blame the DC, look at the average ppg for the whole season if you want, but the OP had a valid reason for concern

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

I don’t expect much. But it would be nice if ticket prices were slashed to entice me to come.

 

[majic73]

Many of these high flying offenses are feast or famine. They run up 700 yards against weak sisters but don't function proportionally as well against strong defenses. From my analysis over the years of offensive systems , I have narrowed it to two thigs. When a defense can control the front with 4 guys , it causes havoc for the offense . These offenses count on the defense committing +1 or +2 to the front. When they don't this takes away the numbers match up they need to function. The second is matchups. These offenses attempt to exploit individual matchups . When the match ups are break even or not in your favor , these offenses have nothing.

This is why you will see offenses like this score 70 against Vandy , but only 10 against Bama. They dont tend to function proportionally well when the opposition is greater , but are astronomically better against weaker opposition when extra bodies have to be committed to the box and they have favorable matchups.

This is not a knock on CJH at all. He and his staff have talked about be adaptable and multiple with his offense and coach to his players strengths. That is what is needed to win in this league

 

[VolForLife83]

I was reading an article from AtoZ talking about how with Heupel UT now has an offensive identity similar to what Kiffin brought (What Tennessee will have under Josh Heupel that they haven't had in over a decade), and it got me looking into his time at Mizzou. I do recall getting blasted against Mizzou in 2017 and thinking that they had a great up-and-comer OC who was going to crate fits for UT. I was impressed with his time at Mizzou, but now that I look back, I'm really not.

2016 - This season is much worse than I remembered. They went 4-8. Almost all of their loses were by double digits except georgia, losing 28-27. Their other closest loss was shockingly MTSU who beat them 45-51. My concern here is did he inherit more talent at UT? Normally I would say yes but with the transfer portal who knows.

2017 - Here again he is worse than I recalled, mainly because I recall the 50-17 beat down. They started off going 1-5 but put things together winning their last 6 games including UT and florida. That sounds impressive until you realize that both UT and florida missed bowls that season.

I think what's worse, 2018 Mizzou was a lot better without him. When you look back on his time at Mizzou, am I right that they had 0 wins against SEC teams with winning records? The only thing really impressive to me about his time at Mizzou was their 6 game winning streak but when you dig into the teams they beat, it's not that impressive. I hope I'm wrong about him. I see that their teams were at the top of the league in yards per game, total offense and points. But to quote Red Sanders, "winning isn't everything; it's the only thing" and Mizzou didn't have a lot of winning against good teams.

Look how much he improved their offense in just his first year. He did his job and did it well, with a lot less talent

 

[VolForLife83]

 

[rocky top buzz]

Many of these high flying offenses are feast or famine. They run up 700 yards against weak sisters but don't function proportionally as well against strong defenses. From my analysis over the years of offensive systems , I have narrowed it to two thigs. When a defense can control the front with 4 guys , it causes havoc for the offense . These offenses count on the defense committing +1 or +2 to the front. When they don't this takes away the numbers match up they need to function. The second is matchups. These offenses attempt to exploit individual matchups . When the match ups are break even or not in your favor , these offenses have nothing.

This is why you will see offenses like this score 70 against Vandy , but only 10 against Bama. They dont tend to function proportionally well when the opposition is greater , but are astronomically better against weaker opposition when extra bodies have to be committed to the box and they have favorable matchups.

This is not a knock on CJH at all. He and his staff have talked about be adaptable and multiple with his offense and coach to his players strengths. That is what is needed to win in this league

That's a great analysis and some points I haven't thought about. If you get 521 yards against an fcs team that may seem great but then only score 3 points against Purdue? That is one thing I liked about Pruitt is he wanted to run a pro offense with big linemen. I think these smaller spread linemen are proven failures in the SEC unless you have a QB and WRs that work together. 2016 UT is a great example. When Dobbs was on fire they won big. When Dobbs and his WRs couldn't get on the same page you didn't have the horses to run over a weaker opponent.

 

[rocky top buzz]

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What was his biggest win at UCF?