What is so difficult understanding

#26
#26
Wylo said:
Look, I'm dancing a fine line here. Trying to compliment Butch while retaining my Nega card. Lol.

I think Butch has done a good job this year. He has the team believing.

But let's be honest about several things:

It took a miracle to beat Georgia.
It took a lucky break by Hurd when he recovered the fumble in the end zone.
Tennessee has been unprepared to play in EVERY first half.
Penalties, turnovers, discipline.

My real problem with Butch is that he doesn't try to overcome deficiencies. He stays conservative while down players. Bama was gonna destroy Tennessee today the way Butch and Bsia coached that game. Swing passes to Hurd, of all people?

Butch makes no attempt to let his coaching turn the tide.
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THIS! THIS! THIS!

I'm telling y'all... Fugazi...
 
#27
#27
Wylo said:
Look, I'm dancing a fine line here. Trying to compliment Butch while retaining my Nega card. Lol.

I think Butch has done a good job this year. He has the team believing.

But let's be honest about several things:

It took a miracle to beat Georgia.
It took a lucky break by Hurd when he recovered the fumble in the end zone.
Tennessee has been unprepared to play in EVERY first half.
Penalties, turnovers, discipline.

My real problem with Butch is that he doesn't try to overcome deficiencies. He stays conservative while down players. Bama was gonna destroy Tennessee today the way Butch and Bsia coached that game. Swing passes to Hurd, of all people?

Butch makes no attempt to let his coaching turn the tide.
Click to expand...

I've seen your posts today Wylo and we may actually have to revoke your nega card if you continue down this path. The posts I saw from you today were critical but fair and went far beyond the "we suck" and "fire everyone" posts I see on here sometimes, especially after a loss. lol. But don't tell anyone I said this, I don't want to have my sunshine pumper card revoked.

While I didn't agree with the points in your post I quoted before, I think your points here are accurate. I'll even add that it seemed like kicking the field goal down 21 may have taken a little wind out of our sails. It probably didn't matter one way or the other at that point though, probably. Other than that, I just don't know how aggressive you can be on offense when you can't protect your quarterback.

But the way we executed today, I don't think it mattered much what we called on offense --- or defense for that matter.
 
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#28
#28
AstonRoyal said:
Yes but with the way that we've won against App St. and Ohio, I can't blame the fanbase for wondering how much of this season has been a Fugazi (a mirage or smoke screen).

Even when you're talking about his strategic coaching ability or game management, you'd be hard press to find many people who would say that he's even above average.
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I get what you're saying. Those early stumbles concerned me greatly. It's not always been pretty this year, but we're on track where most people hoped/thought we'd be, and that's really all that matters.

The whole moral victory/loss discussion makes for good discussion, but as we're always reminded, you are what your record says you are.
 
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#29
#29
Freak said:
I get what you're saying. Those early stumbles concerned me greatly. It's not always been pretty this year, but we're on track where most people hoped/thought we'd be, and that's really all that matters.

The whole moral victory/loss discussion makes for good discussion, but as we're always reminded, you are what your record says you are.
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We're ahead of where talent says we should be. Win out, and we're slightly ahead of schedule.

As you mentioned, every year under Jones has been an improvement. We're clawing our way out of the cellar of the SEC but people tend to forget that. Long term success/stability takes recruiting, recruiting takes time.

A few top five classes in a row doesn't trump consecutive number one classes for even longer periods. The problem is that people are upset because *they* over valued this team since the spring. I have little sympathy for those that are upset because a team they couldnt handicap correctly didnt live up to some fantasy expectations. I warned that A&M was going to be extremely tough, and Bama is Bama. That is before we lost roughly 1/3 of our starting roster.

The goal this year is a ten win season, and another top 5 class. Playoff contention talks were reserved for those given to whimsy, or terrible gamblers. It was always an unlikely proposition, though it could be a reality given our talent if we played in almost any other conference.
 
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#30
#30
daj2576 said:
We're ahead of where talent says we should be. Win out, and we're slightly ahead of schedule.

As you mentioned, every year under Jones has been an improvement. We're clawing our way out of the cellar of the SEC but people tend to forget that. Long term success/stability takes recruiting, recruiting takes time.

A few top five classes in a row doesn't trump consecutive number one classes for even longer periods. The problem is that people are upset because *they* over valued this team since the spring. I have little sympathy for those that are upset because a team they couldnt handicap correctly didnt live up to some fantasy expectations. I warned that A&M was going to be extremely tough, and Bama is Bama. That is before we lost roughly 1/3 of our starting roster.

The goal this year is a ten win season, and another top 5 class.
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Absolutely. If we can manage to absorb the absurd number of injuries we've had at key positions and still manage to hit that 10-2 bar that so many had set, that's a successful season in my opinion.

However, we still have some work to do to finish with a top five class.

Always great to see you posting daj. ZJC had just posted a question in another thread that made me think of you: "How many coaches consistently win games they aren't supposed to?" Seconds later, here you are. lol
 
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#31
#31
Freak said:
Absolutely. If we can manage to absorb the absurd number of injuries we've had at key positions and still manage to hit that 10-2 bar that so many had set, that's a successful season in my opinion.

However, we still have some work to do to finish with a top five class.

Always great to see you posting daj. ZJC had just posted a question in another thread that made me think of you: "How many coaches consistently win games they aren't supposed to?" Seconds later, here you are. lol
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There are three distinct classes of coaches and their typical performance in relation to talent , 1) those who regularly perform at about what talent predicts(roughly 1 game +/- a year), 2) those who regularly under perform (below 1 standard deviation), and 3) those that over perform (above 1 standard deviation). The vast majority fall in category 1 (80% +/-), with 2 and 3 roughly evenly splitting the remainder.

The thing is, everyone wants a coach in category 3. But, you really dont. Few, if any, of those guys actually recruit at a level high enough to sustain success and win championships, but they over achieve to the point they can play spoiler and gain attention. See: Petrino, Spurrier at SCAR. Oddly, many very stable coaches, with national championship caliber recruiting are severely under valued (Miles/Richt) by their fan bases. The problem is that these teams would flourish in any other conference, and be yearly contenders. The SEC is the most talented conference by far, and sometimes you get results that are misleading (UGA v Vandy). Consider that the average SEC team is as talented as a team in the Oklahoma/Michigan range. Whereas every other conference averages a team as talented as the worst SEC teams. In other words, the worst SEC teams are average in any other conference. Consider that when talking about the ease with which UT should navigate the back half of the schedule.

As I've repeated, talent predicts about 70% of games, but that number goes up in conference championships, and approaches 100% in national championships. It's fools gold to throw the baby out with the bath water. That is, a coach who is improving talent, raw wins, and effect on talent, because you can't beat a team that would regularly beat every other team in the country.

We're doing fine, especially compared to where we've been, and when viewed on an extrapolated trajectory. If we were 100%, beating Bama is unlikely. We are far less than 100%, and still should be better than every other team we play.
 
#32
#32
KBVol said:
Well, at least we won the turnover battle today, 2-1. Still lost by 39 points and got outrushed by 400+ yards, but at least we didn't turn the ball over 400 times like we have every other game? #silverlining?
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You seem absolutely giddy every time we get beat.

The hell is your problem?
 
#33
#33
Wylo said:
Look, I'm dancing a fine line here. Trying to compliment Butch while retaining my Nega card. Lol.

I think Butch has done a good job this year. He has the team believing.

But let's be honest about several things:

It took a miracle to beat Georgia.
It took a lucky break by Hurd when he recovered the fumble in the end zone.
Tennessee has been unprepared to play in EVERY first half.
Penalties, turnovers, discipline.

My real problem with Butch is that he doesn't try to overcome deficiencies. He stays conservative while down players. Bama was gonna destroy Tennessee today the way Butch and Bsia coached that game. Swing passes to Hurd, of all people?

Butch makes no attempt to let his coaching turn the tide.
Click to expand...

Butch Jones is a bad coach but that isn't breaking any news.

His only strength was talent acquisition. Both in terms of recruiting and evaluation.

When he loses that talent like what happened today with the accumulation of injuries, stuff like this happens.
 
#34
#34
daj2576 said:
The problem is that people are upset because *they* over valued this team since the spring. I have little sympathy for those that are upset because a team they couldnt handicap correctly didnt live up to some fantasy expectations.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
#35
#35
what scares me is what this team is going to be next year minus hurd, barnett, kamara, dobbs, jrm, sutton, etc. Going to be a rough season. Good thing Georgia went and got rid of Richt and we play in the SEC jr.
 
#36
#36
daj2576 said:
We're ahead of where talent says we should be. Win out, and we're slightly ahead of schedule.

As you mentioned, every year under Jones has been an improvement. We're clawing our way out of the cellar of the SEC but people tend to forget that. Long term success/stability takes recruiting, recruiting takes time.

A few top five classes in a row doesn't trump consecutive number one classes for even longer periods. The problem is that people are upset because *they* over valued this team since the spring. I have little sympathy for those that are upset because a team they couldnt handicap correctly didnt live up to some fantasy expectations. I warned that A&M was going to be extremely tough, and Bama is Bama. That is before we lost roughly 1/3 of our starting roster.

The goal this year is a ten win season, and another top 5 class. Playoff contention talks were reserved for those given to whimsy, or terrible gamblers. It was always an unlikely proposition, though it could be a reality given our talent if we played in almost any other conference.
Click to expand...


We all want to have championship seasons but it does take time...I remember when Butch came he tried to land the #1 recruit in the state - DB who ended up going to OSU...I believe we are in better position now to sign elite talent - kids that wouldn't have given Tennessee a second look four years ago...when Saban says it's a process, people think he's a genius but when Butch says it's going to take some time (the old brick by brick) people think he's a phoney...

Couple of thoughts...as much as I love Josh Dobbs, he was a never going to be more than an interim QB in the rebuild...we signed the #3 dual threat QB last year and if he doesn't beat out Dormady then we will remain in a interim situation...you saw Hurts today and have seen Watson at Clemson..that's the model for our QB...a good passing dual threat QB will greatly improve the moral of our receivers...

Most of our talent on OL are first and second year players...several got to redshirt but several did not...Butch may have to look at the development of the OL and see if he wants to upgrade coaching...one thing for sure, we have young talent and need to develop that talent into a machine (like the old TVA)...we'll never make the next step until we have an OL that dominates...

Our defensive secondary is average at best...partly because of injuries but mostly because we just haven't landed enough true blue chip players...I was hoping Warrior would be such a stud that he would break into the line up quickly...but he's another blue chip player who hasn't been an impact player...player rankings - especially for legacy kids - can be a bit biased...if we want a bama type D we have to have corners who can smother receivers...there was a 5 star kid there today...maybe the poor performance will give him hopes of immediate playing time...
 
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#37
#37
Other_Guy said:
Why the team was handled today? It's somehow confusing to some people that 3 backup OL against what some consider the best front 7 Saban has ever had cant block while the defense fields players who might start for Vanderbilt or Kentucky (no offense to those guys who have played their hearts out and made plays, like Jumper, but lets get real they started a THIRD string LB against Alabama) are getting pushed around.
We blame the offensive scheme? Maybe Shoop is overrated? The team wasnt prepared? Huh? Alabama had like one starter missing. This team has even ran out of fumes.
It was embarrassing because this finally seemed like the year to get Bama and all Bama fans think is "we pushed the #9 team around" when half of those players were on the bench, but it's not like we were exposed as some of you put it... what was exposed? 2nd and 3rd stringers arent as good as the #1 team in the country's starters? Big shocker.
No one likes moral victories. So what if they lost by a blowout? They werent ever going to seriously challenge. Dont call this loss "unacceptable" which makes no sense, instead let's get to the bye week, get guys healthy and run straight to Atlanta (can't see Florida winning out) with hopefully a HEALTHY team that we KNOW can challenge Bama.
Our boys had nothing left in the tank. They laid it all out at A&M. Terrible timing to play Bama. I still have confidence in this team. It is what it is.
GO VOLS
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There is not a team in the country that could play 2nd and 3rd stringers against the 1st string of the #1 team in the country and do any better.
 
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#38
#38
Other_Guy said:
Why the team was handled today? It's somehow confusing to some people that 3 backup OL against what some consider the best front 7 Saban has ever had cant block while the defense fields players who might start for Vanderbilt or Kentucky (no offense to those guys who have played their hearts out and made plays, like Jumper, but lets get real they started a THIRD string LB against Alabama) are getting pushed around.
We blame the offensive scheme? Maybe Shoop is overrated? The team wasnt prepared? Huh? Alabama had like one starter missing. This team has even ran out of fumes.
It was embarrassing because this finally seemed like the year to get Bama and all Bama fans think is "we pushed the #9 team around" when half of those players were on the bench, but it's not like we were exposed as some of you put it... what was exposed? 2nd and 3rd stringers arent as good as the #1 team in the country's starters? Big shocker.
No one likes moral victories. So what if they lost by a blowout? They werent ever going to seriously challenge. Dont call this loss "unacceptable" which makes no sense, instead let's get to the bye week, get guys healthy and run straight to Atlanta (can't see Florida winning out) with hopefully a HEALTHY team that we KNOW can challenge Bama.
Our boys had nothing left in the tank. They laid it all out at A&M. Terrible timing to play Bama. I still have confidence in this team. It is what it is.
GO VOLS
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Sounds like a winner
 
#39
#39
acd4476 said:
what scares me is what this team is going to be next year minus hurd, barnett, kamara, dobbs, jrm, sutton, etc. Going to be a rough season. Good thing Georgia went and got rid of Richt and we play in the SEC jr.
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I don't think it will be as bad as you think. We have been playing without those guys most of the year save Kamara and Hurd. Dobbs is a good leader but has limitations. Because these young players have been forced to play they are getting valuable game reps. It will be interesting to see what Dormady or JG can do with the keys. We are fine at running back. Receivers are OK. Line should improve. Defense was young this year at all but a few positions and we have been fine there even with our Stars missing
 
#41
#41
Freak said:
I've seen your posts today Wylo and we may actually have to revoke your nega card if you continue down this path. The posts I saw from you today were critical but fair and went far beyond the "we suck" and "fire everyone" posts I see on here sometimes, especially after a loss. lol. But don't tell anyone I said this, I don't want to have my sunshine pumper card revoked.

While I didn't agree with the points in your post I quoted before, I think your points here are accurate. I'll even add that it seemed like kicking the field goal down 21 may have taken a little wind out of our sails. It probably didn't matter one way or the other at that point though, probably. Other than that, I just don't know how aggressive you can be on offense when you can't protect your quarterback.

But the way we executed today, I don't think it mattered much what we called on offense --- or defense for that matter.
Click to expand...

I know, I've been feeling a bit feverish today. I'll get that looked at and report to Nega camp asap!

:)
 
#42
#42
KB5252 said:
I don't think it will be as bad as you think. We have been playing without those guys most of the year save Kamara and Hurd. Dobbs is a good leader but has limitations. Because these young players have been forced to play they are getting valuable game reps. It will be interesting to see what Dormady or JG can do with the keys. We are fine at running back. Receivers are OK. Line should improve. Defense was young this year at all but a few positions and we have been fine there even with our Stars missing
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just hope kamara comes back but the way he's played i think he'll go. Hurd needs to stay but Im thinking he's heading pro even though he gets a late round grade.
 
#43
#43
How many folks had a 10-2 season, 11-1 if really caught a break? This is exactly where we are at, with a substantial set of barriers and obstacles.
 
#44
#44
AstonRoyal said:
Well the reality was that Butch was suppose to recruit enough players to be competitive in this situation.

Is it unrealistic to ask for a win with our injuries? Probably
Is it unrealistic for our team to fight and be competitive with our injuries? Hell No

This board would be speaking a much different tune had this been a competitive ball game.
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Dude, a true freshmen had to come in at LT against an incredible pass rush. Tatum (who looks like a skinny TE) played RT and I'm not even sure how many snaps he's had this year.
If Im not mistaken Elliot Berry was the leading tackler at half time. He's a FOURTH stringer. The team was extremely competiti've last week, but Alabama is a different animal.Big games against the last 3 weeks.Have you considered the possibility that you may be unwilling to take anything in consideration when it comes to losses leading to unrealistic expectations?
You make a comment about recruiting...
I thought as the program became better and got more wins that talent would come? It's happened so far but my gosh, how competitive are some of these guys supposed to be against a healthy #1 team?
The coaches had an impossible task.
 
#46
#46
During the call of the game Gary mentioned that Alabama's 3 starting DL could have gone pro last year. How many plays did they stuff in the back field? In fact the best throw of the game Dobbs made was Intercepted for a TD.
 
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