What Is a "Real" Conservative?

#51
#51
I think the outrage over Trump stems partially from the departure of Obama. It seemed to me that there was an element of Obama supporters that viewed Obama through a quasi-religious lens and saw him as some sort of divine being. Now that he's gone, the herd feels it is without a shepherd.
I think that certainly turbocharges it, yes. Also, the fact that someone like Trump was elected right after him (even though Obama was re-elected) feels like a direct repudiation of him and the image he portrayed. In their eyes, a younger, dynamic, diverse, trendy, progressive image was replaced with an old, racist, un-hip, White one. Of course, it didn't help matters that Trump won the election because a notable number of people who voted for Obama twice, and are "supposed to" vote Democratic, voted for Trump.

90% of the outrage regarding him, IMO, comes from the rhetoric he employs when talking about immigration/illegal immigration. If he had a moderate stance on immigration, or didn't employ the overheated rhetoric that he does about it, he'd still be controversial but the criticism of him would be much less hysterical.
 
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#60
#60
There are a whole lot of liberals around here who have kept me from buying beer on Sunday morning then.
So you don't have enough common sense to go buy your beer on Saturday KNOWING that there are blue laws?

Educated leftists. lulz.
 
#61
#61
So you don't have enough common sense to go buy your beer on Saturday KNOWING that there are blue laws?

Educated leftists. lulz.

I didn't say I go there every Sunday morning and try to buy alcohol, jabroni. I'm not allowed to thanks to, apparently, democrats.
 
#63
#63
You certainly seemed to be bothered by it Cletus.

Yeah, I am. It's an arbitrary law and makes me have to go grocery shopping with all the prudes (and their friggin kids) who have been in church.

Either way, the question is whether conservatives are advocates of laws which infringe upon personal freedom.
 
#64
#64
Yeah, I am. It's an arbitrary law and makes me have to go grocery shopping with all the prudes (and their friggin kids) who have been in church.

Either way, the question is whether conservatives are advocates of laws which infringe upon personal freedom.
Lol, how tolerant of you.

Of course conservatives are advocates of laws that infringe upon personal freedom. So are progressives.
 
#66
#66
Maybe so, but at least I don't think conservatism is "you leave me alone, I leave you alone." It's only that insofar as that statement is in tune with the responsible government objective that me and McDad are talking about.
I'd prefer traditional constitutional conservatism over any other option. Id prefer it with or without morality laws. If i had a choice, I'd choose it sans morality. I would have chosen the other 10+ years ago.
 
#72
#72
Who do you think is more likely to vote to keep them now: liberals or conservatives?
Social conservatives would, of course, but I'm not sure what your point is. The only people lobbying to keep them are very puritanical social conservatives, who undoubtedly are Republicans (if they vote), but it isn't like that is some kind of key position that the party campaigns on today. It seems like a city or a county does away with a blue law all the time with minimal resistance.

There are actually social conservatives in both parties, Republican and Democrat. The difference is that if conservative stances on social issues don't drive how you vote, then you are pretty likely to be a Democrat.
 
#73
#73
Just wondering what people think. I'm having a convo with @0nelilreb in another thread and he said he thinks Pence is more conservative than Rand Paul, which surprises me, but maybe I'm looking at it all wrong.

Conservatives stand for a lot of things (small government, America first, family values, etc.), and of course some positions have changed over time. To me, the characteristic over time that separates real conservatives from fakes, neo's, etc. is how do you actually vote on small government? Conversely, everybody in the R party votes for family values, and I think we'd agree most are not "real" conservatives. So even though Rand Paul has a libertarian streak in him and Ron Paul had a huge libertarian streak in him, they are both closer to real conservatism than a Mike Pence, because he doesn't have their record on small government.

What makes one a real conservative? Thoughts?
finally have time to really answer this. limiting my answers to only American Conservative, because saying a conservative in Europe would be completely different. and this is purely addressing the idea of Conservatism in this nation.

1. I would say any real conservative starts with the Constitution. Few enough of those out there
2. Next would be federal powers vs state powers. For me limited/small government as far as our country goes refers to Federal powers. anything not delegated to the Federal government should be left to the states. I don't know any DC politicians who actually run on this. this largely died with the Civil War.
3. Foreign policy. going back to the Constitutional start I think we should be more isolationist than we are. a few good friends that we always have their backs, and then the rest of the world we treat with mild indifference. Keep any treaties we have but largely stay out of other countries business. again we don't have this at all. Maybe Woodrow Wilson was the last one here.
4. morals in a broad sense are a far distant 4th, most of these tied up with the Constitution

At least in my readings I don't see anything in the Constitution where I could infer financial conservatism as a goal. maybe in the limited government, but it doesn't say much about states and how they SPEND money. this may be because at the time we were in debt up past our eye balls, but who knows.
 
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#74
#74
Social conservatives would, of course, but I'm not sure what your point is. The only people lobbying to keep them are very puritanical social conservatives, who undoubtedly are Republicans (if they vote), but it isn't like that is some kind of key position that the party campaigns on today.

Tennessee is a very conservative state, and yet these laws persist in many areas. If conservatives love liberty as much as they let on then why are there not more ballot initiatives to get rid of these laws that we all know have insufficient basis.

Why is marijuana illegal? Hell, we can't even get medical marijuana in this state; I doubt much will change with Bill Lee as governor.
 
#75
#75
Yeah, I am. It's an arbitrary law and makes me have to go grocery shopping with all the prudes (and their friggin kids) who have been in church.

Either way, the question is whether conservatives are advocates of laws which infringe upon personal freedom.
Personal freedom? Bit of a stretch.
 

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