What if we'd won in September . . .

[Behr]

Happy Monday!

Happy Monday.

Was just at Publix and they had my Diet Cherry 7Up on sale, buy 2 get 2...limit 2 per customer.

Thought about you.

 

[FLVOL_79]

9-3? Tennessee gets clobbered in the bowl game by a team named Gophers...

Still would have pretty much zero quality wins against any decent team.

 

[JMSqb11]

Happy Monday.

Was just at Publix and they had my Diet Cherry 7Up on sale, buy 2 get 2...limit 2 per customer.

Thought about you.

 

[Behr]

9-3? Tennessee gets clobbered in the bowl game by a team named Gophers...

Still would have pretty much zero quality wins against any decent team.

But we would have zero terrible unforgivable losses. (Florida score was unforgivable, but not the loss, not the same as GaSt obviously)

I agree we get beat by Minnesota, at 7-5.

But I believe if we had won those first two games, my confidence is higher and I would be happy to play them. I mean, consistency is a big reason I don't trust them to beat a higher ranked team, but that would be different if we had just won those first two.

 

[rikberry31]

I tend not to do hypotheticals, because they tend to be misunderstood. But this one is really interesting. So I'll just be careful how I describe it.

First, this is NOT a "we really shoulda" thread. Nor is it a "we really coulda" thread. I'm not feeding the negavols, nor am I feeding any revisionist history. We lost to Ga State and BYU (as the negas have been all too happy to point out over, and over, and over, and over again), and nothing changes that. Not taking credit for anything we didn't do. Not denying anything we did do. This isn't about either of those things.

But I think all of us who are being honest will acknowledge that we have a significantly different team than we had in early September. Not just growth throughout the season, that happens for most teams. No, this was a sea change that occurred right around the time of the Florida loss and that widely-reported meeting between Jeremy and the lads, just them. Something changed that day. A few fellas who might not have been on board left the team, others maybe got pushed into the back seat, while the majority of our squad came together as a solid team for the first time in ... years? It has been a while.

And so here's the hypothetical: where does today's team stand in the SEC, and in the national rankings, if we had been all along the team we are today? If we'd been the team who went 9-3 instead of 7-5?

One big note up front: we still wouldn't have beaten any team that is currently ranked. The only three teams we played that were (and are) ranked, those would make up our three "L"s.

So all the arguments the nega-vols are tossing around lately about "we didn't beat anybody" would still be valid (if salty) complaints.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 3- and 4-loss teams ranked right now. Eight of them, in fact. A couple, like #8 Wisconsin and #12 Auburn, have some pretty big wins over quality, ranked opponents. We wouldn't be as highly-viewed as them.

But others have a body of work which looks a lot more like our October and November results. #14 Michigan, sort of: their three losses are to the best three teams of their conference, just like our losses to UGa, FL, and Bama. On the other hand, they did beat Notre Dame and Iowa, which are better wins than any we have. So maybe we wouldn't be as highly ranked as them...but we're in the general ballpark now.

Certainly we'd be ranked above #21 Cincinnati, whose best win was against 4-8 UCLA, plus some decent Group of 5 teams.

So, in this hypothetical, I think the Vols would have ended the regular season ranked in the #15-#20 range. We would be playing maybe Oklahoma State or someone else about that level. And we'd still be divided into Nega- and Sunshine- camps. Heh.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting enough hypothetical to mention.

Go Vols!

I believe the those losses were beneficial for the long run. They began the process of building this team not only for this year but for the future. This team experienced nothing but adversity for the first month. I have watch Tennessee teams fold under adversity for the last decade or more. This team is different they bonded, bowed up, and rebounded.
Last time I saw a Tennessee team play with anything close to this level of confidence and determination was 2009. There are a lot of parallels between that team and this team and 2009, if we lose the bowl game and Pruitt leaves to take the Bama head coaching job in the middle of the night, I’m out.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Too long and didn't read. But with this topic, everyone in the country knows this current Vols squad should be 9-3.... That is the perception. However, we are 7-5 with a 5 game winning streak. I think winning the bowl game is the first and most important way to close out recruiting with some flips and surprises and finish with a Top15 class. I really believe that.

I also think that if we finish 8-5 and finish strong in crootin, we will likely be ranked by the time we roll into Norman vs OU.

So the perception is that we should be a 10-3 team instead of 8-5.... Sadly the record doesn't reflect that. But winning this bowl game is arguably the most important thing that must happen this postseason and offseason.

tl;dr

 

[FLVOL_79]

But we would have zero terrible unforgivable losses. (Florida score was unforgivable, but not the loss, not the same as GaSt obviously)

I agree we get beat by Minnesota, at 7-5.

But I believe if we had won those first two games, my confidence is higher and I would be happy to play them. I mean, consistency is a big reason I don't trust them to beat a higher ranked team, but that would be different if we had just won those first two.

True. We would be like Yeah we are awesome!!! ...without the specter of Ga State and BYU looming over us..then we'd get walloped.

 

[Behr]

True. We would be like Yeah we are awesome!!! ...without the specter of Ga State and BYU looming over us..then we'd get walloped.

That's what makes this thread interesting, tho. IMO you can't really say that we would get walloped. If we had been prepared and coached better, enough to have won those two, who's to say we wouldn't have been better than we are now? We're not too far from being good enough to beat Minnesota now.

I think we're closer to being "good" than you do, but I agree we're not as good as some think. I believe your "disapproval" of JG clouds your overall judgment. Lol.

 

[utchs81]

MY gut was telling me around 15 before I read some of your research/ rationale. I think you are right and I would say in the 14-18 range. While we are discussing hypotheticals I will add this little nugget ( that goes both ways) IF we had won the GS and BYU games the team wouldn't have had to "find themselves" and spend so much time finding belief that they could win against the likes of the teams that subsequently beat us. Who knows where they might have been if they had started out of the gate 3-0 vs 1-2. Lets win the Bowl game and come out strong in 2020 GBO!

My sentiments exactly. The adversity that this team endured in the early part of the season brought them together in addition to learning who the true leaders are.

 

[Concept]

The problem with what-if is you can't help but be selective. We barely survived several of our late season SEC wins, but you're not looking at those what-ifs.

Besides, without beating the big 3 there's no way we could do better on bowl placement. I like the direction we're going, but be happy with what we've earned so far and build on that.

 

[rdk4121]

We'd be at worst top 20, at best top 15 if we were 9-3. Keep in mind, those three losses were all top 10 teams, 2 of which on the road. Probably still in the gator bowl, just because Auburn got the outback bowl and we wouldn't have passed them up. It wouldn't have been a debate though, we would've been the easy choice for the gator bowl.

The outlook would've been a lot different as well. Obviously the outlook is positive right now given we've won 5 in a row, but can you imagine already being at 9 wins in Pruitt's second season?

 

[Volunteer08]

I would be upset after a 9-3 season if it ended in the Gator Bowl. That's where we would've been, nothing would change.

 

[UTNoFear]

I tend not to do hypotheticals, because they tend to be misunderstood. But this one is really interesting. So I'll just be careful how I describe it.

First, this is NOT a "we really shoulda" thread. Nor is it a "we really coulda" thread. I'm not feeding the negavols, nor am I feeding any revisionist history. We lost to Ga State and BYU (as the negas have been all too happy to point out over, and over, and over, and over again), and nothing changes that. Not taking credit for anything we didn't do. Not denying anything we did do. This isn't about either of those things.

But I think all of us who are being honest will acknowledge that we have a significantly different team than we had in early September. Not just growth throughout the season, that happens for most teams. No, this was a sea change that occurred right around the time of the Florida loss and that widely-reported meeting between Jeremy and the lads, just them. Something changed that day. A few fellas who might not have been on board left the team, others maybe got pushed into the back seat, while the majority of our squad came together as a solid team for the first time in ... years? It has been a while.

And so here's the hypothetical: where does today's team stand in the SEC, and in the national rankings, if we had been all along the team we are today? If we'd been the team who went 9-3 instead of 7-5?

One big note up front: we still wouldn't have beaten any team that is currently ranked. The only three teams we played that were (and are) ranked, those would make up our three "L"s.

So all the arguments the nega-vols are tossing around lately about "we didn't beat anybody" would still be valid (if salty) complaints.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 3- and 4-loss teams ranked right now. Eight of them, in fact. A couple, like #8 Wisconsin and #12 Auburn, have some pretty big wins over quality, ranked opponents. We wouldn't be as highly-viewed as them.

But others have a body of work which looks a lot more like our October and November results. #14 Michigan, sort of: their three losses are to the best three teams of their conference, just like our losses to UGa, FL, and Bama. On the other hand, they did beat Notre Dame and Iowa, which are better wins than any we have. So maybe we wouldn't be as highly ranked as them...but we're in the general ballpark now.

Certainly we'd be ranked above #21 Cincinnati, whose best win was against 4-8 UCLA, plus some decent Group of 5 teams.

So, in this hypothetical, I think the Vols would have ended the regular season ranked in the #15-#20 range. We would be playing maybe Oklahoma State or someone else about that level. And we'd still be divided into Nega- and Sunshine- camps. Heh.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting enough hypothetical to mention.

Go Vols!

JP, great post but I for one would love to play UGA, UF, and Bama with the team that finished the year. Take care of business with Ga State and BYU, no telling how this team would have finished but then maybe it took a slow start to make sure they never repeat this under CJP's watch again. The season is what it is but I for one am happy with how the team ended. Here's hoping for a strong finish in the bowl game and a 2020 season that has us all in a great state of mnid watching a competing UT team that doesn't lay down for anyone.

Always enjoy your insight JP, keep up the good work sir!

 

[82_VOL_83]

Had we beat GA State and BYU we’d likely end the season ranked or very close to it.

Our record in the SEC would remain the same.

I don’t think we’d be any better of a squad than we are today.

Those losses may have been one of the big factors in this team gelling and working to become the team they are today...which is still a mediocre SEC team.

We’d probably be looking at a January loss in a bowl game.

Agree with everything except maybe beating FL. I think if we come into that game with a different attitude we may win. HOWEVER, having said that, your 4th point probably makes it likely that we don't win FL and may have lost another close 1 or maybe even 2.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Dang man. How much of a disclaimer did you need to read that his post was not ifs and buts. Geeez, OP is just trying to see how we would be perceived. But, then yeah that'd be an uncle. Yep. LOL

Not necessarily, what if the uncle actually self identified as female?

 

[hog88]

If we would have finished 9-3 we'd be in the Outback Bowl, but we didn't.

 

[ptcarter]

This could go down as one of the weirdest Tennessee seasons on record.. One perhaps a little crazier was that on ('86?) where Johnny Majors lost the first 6 games and after that had great sucess the rest of the season and the next several seasons. That was in the day before social media, message boards and such. Can you imagine this bunch (meaning YOU on Volnation) back then????
Middle of September, there was no doubt a bowl was not in play, and I thought Chattanooga would be the only sure win and UAB a tossup.
Also, middle of September - Bama looked to be in charge.. LSU had some wins, but it was all Bama for the championship.
So the fortunes have shifted for a lot of teams. Water also seeks it's level.

I'll summarize - Right now, all that matters is recruiting. Period
I think it's better to lose at the front end, even to lowly Georgia State - and finish strong, than to start out strong and finish week. Georgia is a good case in point. I'm certain their poor performance against LSU will give recruiters a crack in the door to turn some players away from there. We should do OK in spite of the GSU and BYU screwups.

 

[GVol1966]

We'd be 9-3. Simple as that.

Yep!
Maybe helping recruiting some!
A bunch of Nega-Vols would have a better outlook for CJP and staff!
Sunshine pumpers would be predicting us 12-0 next year and in the playoffs!
But in reality the team would be exactly as good as it is now!

 

[FLVOL_79]

The JG is a terrible QB is a slant on a splendid athlete doing something you could never do. When a grown man tears down a college athlete to make themselves feel superior I really feel terrible for you. As I asked before.... what position did you play in college or did your football career end at city league. Sunshine pumping? If you can't see the progress this team made this year then as I said remove the vol from your username. Its jokes of fans like you that give those that support the players and university a bad name. Guess you were on board for Greg Schiano to be the head coach now. Do us all a favor and throw names into a hat for other teams to pull for....PLEASE!

Gonna give you some pro advice for a better life: Stop living vicariously through football. The ebb and flow of UT's performance shouldnt have such an influence over your life. Secondly, JG is a grown ass man and saying he is terrible isn't tearing him down, its stating an opinion which has plenty of empirical data to back it up. Again, don't let how people talk about athletes you have nothing to do with impact your life so personally, well, unless you're his dad. Are you?

Progress? Yep, its there and I didnt say otherwise. See, now you are just desperately reaching for straws to somehow rationalize your hatred towards True Vol fans who don't share the same irrational opinion of our beloved team as you do. Schiano? Wtf are you even talking about? Apparently you've never seen me post about that sack of sh!t. But thats ok, you are being emotional and not logical. Do yourself a favor though and find a relaxing hobby during the offseason. Knitting perhaps? I'm sure JG can use some rabid fan made gear.

 

[UTNoFear]

Wait. So to be able to criticize a terrible QB I must have played college ball? HAHA.

I love you "Vol" fans that feel the need to remove any dissenting fans that don't subscribe your sunshine pumping or your orange Jim Jones cult like koolaid drinking. Reminds me why I only go to bowl games.

Last I have to say to you. You call JG a terrible QB, he cost us a touchdown against Bama I agree, but to call the kid terrible is unfair. He made a horrible mistake but for the sake of an argument he scores then he's a hero. I seriously doubt you would give him any credit because you have an agenda against the young man.

Do you have a clue as to what these young men go through during a regular day. Wake up, training room/rehab if hurt, next weight room, breakfast after, class, after class position meetings, then practice, film study, and then back to dorm to study for class. These splendid young men do this every day except weekends because it's game weekend and the schedule is more intense. Rehab/position groups/ breakfast......... back to training room and then taping, then getting ready for the game. I've been there done that and my son is doing the same now and I hear him talking this all the time. Your a fan, you have nothing on you other than watching the game and tearing down players in your case doing something you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. My suggestion to you is walk around in these kids shoes for an hour or two and you'd sing a different tune.

FLVOL79, I don't know you nor do I want to because you are an angry man.You take out your frustrations on athletes that are doing something you never could. You scream ARM CHAIR. Ive had my day in the sun, my son is having his now just as JG is having his. This kid has won us more games than lost but if you're too blind or pig headed to acknowledge it its on you. Turn your holier than thou attitude to yourself sir. You won't like what you see..

 

[SmokinBob]

I tend not to do hypotheticals, because they tend to be misunderstood. But this one is really interesting. So I'll just be careful how I describe it.

First, this is NOT a "we really shoulda" thread. Nor is it a "we really coulda" thread. I'm not feeding the negavols, nor am I feeding any revisionist history. We lost to Ga State and BYU (as the negas have been all too happy to point out over, and over, and over, and over again), and nothing changes that. Not taking credit for anything we didn't do. Not denying anything we did do. This isn't about either of those things.

But I think all of us who are being honest will acknowledge that we have a significantly different team than we had in early September. Not just growth throughout the season, that happens for most teams. No, this was a sea change that occurred right around the time of the Florida loss and that widely-reported meeting between Jeremy and the lads, just them. Something changed that day. A few fellas who might not have been on board left the team, others maybe got pushed into the back seat, while the majority of our squad came together as a solid team for the first time in ... years? It has been a while.

And so here's the hypothetical: where does today's team stand in the SEC, and in the national rankings, if we had been all along the team we are today? If we'd been the team who went 9-3 instead of 7-5?

One big note up front: we still wouldn't have beaten any team that is currently ranked. The only three teams we played that were (and are) ranked, those would make up our three "L"s.

So all the arguments the nega-vols are tossing around lately about "we didn't beat anybody" would still be valid (if salty) complaints.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 3- and 4-loss teams ranked right now. Eight of them, in fact. A couple, like #8 Wisconsin and #12 Auburn, have some pretty big wins over quality, ranked opponents. We wouldn't be as highly-viewed as them.

But others have a body of work which looks a lot more like our October and November results. #14 Michigan, sort of: their three losses are to the best three teams of their conference, just like our losses to UGa, FL, and Bama. On the other hand, they did beat Notre Dame and Iowa, which are better wins than any we have. So maybe we wouldn't be as highly ranked as them...but we're in the general ballpark now.

Certainly we'd be ranked above #21 Cincinnati, whose best win was against 4-8 UCLA, plus some decent Group of 5 teams.

So, in this hypothetical, I think the Vols would have ended the regular season ranked in the #15-#20 range. We would be playing maybe Oklahoma State or someone else about that level. And we'd still be divided into Nega- and Sunshine- camps. Heh.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting enough hypothetical to mention.

Go Vols!

Honestly, I don't think we'd be the team we are if we hadn't gone through that

 

[livefaith]

Not necessarily, what if the uncle actually self identified as female?

Oh, then who would I be to question that! :-o

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

I tend not to do hypotheticals, because they tend to be misunderstood. But this one is really interesting. So I'll just be careful how I describe it.

First, this is NOT a "we really shoulda" thread. Nor is it a "we really coulda" thread. I'm not feeding the negavols, nor am I feeding any revisionist history. We lost to Ga State and BYU (as the negas have been all too happy to point out over, and over, and over, and over again), and nothing changes that. Not taking credit for anything we didn't do. Not denying anything we did do. This isn't about either of those things.

But I think all of us who are being honest will acknowledge that we have a significantly different team than we had in early September. Not just growth throughout the season, that happens for most teams. No, this was a sea change that occurred right around the time of the Florida loss and that widely-reported meeting between Jeremy and the lads, just them. Something changed that day. A few fellas who might not have been on board left the team, others maybe got pushed into the back seat, while the majority of our squad came together as a solid team for the first time in ... years? It has been a while.

And so here's the hypothetical: where does today's team stand in the SEC, and in the national rankings, if we had been all along the team we are today? If we'd been the team who went 9-3 instead of 7-5?

One big note up front: we still wouldn't have beaten any team that is currently ranked. The only three teams we played that were (and are) ranked, those would make up our three "L"s.

So all the arguments the nega-vols are tossing around lately about "we didn't beat anybody" would still be valid (if salty) complaints.

On the other hand, there are plenty of 3- and 4-loss teams ranked right now. Eight of them, in fact. A couple, like #8 Wisconsin and #12 Auburn, have some pretty big wins over quality, ranked opponents. We wouldn't be as highly-viewed as them.

But others have a body of work which looks a lot more like our October and November results. #14 Michigan, sort of: their three losses are to the best three teams of their conference, just like our losses to UGa, FL, and Bama. On the other hand, they did beat Notre Dame and Iowa, which are better wins than any we have. So maybe we wouldn't be as highly ranked as them...but we're in the general ballpark now.

Certainly we'd be ranked above #21 Cincinnati, whose best win was against 4-8 UCLA, plus some decent Group of 5 teams.

So, in this hypothetical, I think the Vols would have ended the regular season ranked in the #15-#20 range. We would be playing maybe Oklahoma State or someone else about that level. And we'd still be divided into Nega- and Sunshine- camps. Heh.

Anyway, I thought it was an interesting enough hypothetical to mention.

Go Vols!

If we had won every game... we'd be *13 - 0 now !!