What Happened to America?

[SpaceCoastVol]

The “system” depends greatly on it’s citizens keeping it in check. People in government left unchecked will always take advantage of those they govern.

And that is the one thing the FFs didn't think of. Career politicians.

 

[05_never_again]

And that is the one thing the FFs didn't think of. Career politicians.

What's needed more than term limits is a ban on lobbying for any former Representative or Senator. Of course, they'd be the ones who'd have to write that rule, and that isn't going to happen, and if it didn't it'd be riddled with loopholes.

 

[Purple Tiger]

So let's set this record straight. Trump doesn't understand business and he's not an astute businessman, but Obama, who has never ran a business is?

By all indications, Trump is an unsuccessful businessman because he took bankruptcy four times. Is that so hard to understand? I don't think Obama ever said he was a businessman.

 

[05_never_again]

By all indications, Trump is an unsuccessful businessman because he took bankruptcy four times. Is that so hard to understand? I don't think Obama ever said he was a businessman.

The whole "he filed bankruptcy" thing isn't the best angle for your argument. Trump over the years has created several hundred legal entities, a handful of which filed bankruptcy. All these real estate guys have "filed bankruptcy" at one point or another; it's what they do. Not every single project will work out, so they file bankruptcy to restructure the deal. He's never personally filed bankruptcy.

A better argument is that if he took the money is father reportedly gave him in the early 80s and invested it in the S&P, he'd have a higher net worth than he has today. His real estate portfolio over the last 40 years has underperformed a passive investment in the stock market.

 

[Purple Tiger]

Modern historians point to several things as causes for way America is today. The assassinations of the Kennedy brothers and MLK were certainly a part. LBJ's Vietnam policy sucked the life out of the country. The rise of feminism and working women has changed things. Watergate ended most people's trust of the Presidency; since then, the press has treated them more harshly. The rise of the Christian Right has been polarizing, too. Gay rights have been divisive. I think a combination of all of these have resulted in an Us vs. Them mentality in our country.

 

[NashVol11]

Hurt feelings, participation trophies, one level learning where no child is permitted to be exceptional on any level, broken families, affirmative action, feminazi's, pride parades, removal of God and the American Flag, revisionist history, Common Core broken education systems, radicalized universities, propaganda echo chamber news outlets...I could go on for days.

Literally none of this **** matters. Pride parades?? You preferred when gay people were second-class citizens?

 

[MontyPython]

Borrowed from a friend but is absolutely 100% truth....

What happened to America? The America I know would have helped you build your house, helped you plow your fields, raise your barn, and lifted you up in any way they could. Even the smallest gesture was one of love and kindness when people in the community were in need.

Now Americans want you to fail. They pride themselves in standing in your path, being an obstacle, and having a role, ANY ROLE, in taking you down.

This whole concept and narrative of "if you are not with us, you are against us and therefore the enemy" has got to stop. It is truly unAmerican.

The left loves to use the fallacy of Arguing to Emotion. They know emotion can "win" every time (in their own minds). They love to shame you because you dont care about 80,000 deaths enough to stay home and wear a mask. Yet they did not give one *** about 66,000 deaths last year, and every year before it as evidenced by no Stay at Home and not wearing masks. They will also not do it again next year.

All of this is optics and the left loves optics...well except when it comes to Joe Biden.

Heh. In two words, Donald Trump.

 

[NashVol11]

Modern historians point to several things as causes for way America is today. The assassinations of the Kennedy brothers and MLK were certainly a part. LBJ's Vietnam policy sucked the life out of the country. The rise of feminism and working women has changed things. Watergate ended most people's trust of the Presidency; since then, the press has treated them more harshly. The rise of the Christian Right has been polarizing, too. Gay rights have been divisive. I think a combination of all of these have resulted in an Us vs. Them mentality in our country.

There’s always us vs. them, just “them” has changed. It used to be black people and women, now it’s Muslims, immigrants and the other political party

 

[05_never_again]

Modern historians point to several things as causes for way America is today. The assassinations of the Kennedy brothers and MLK were certainly a part. LBJ's Vietnam policy sucked the life out of the country. The rise of feminism and working women has changed things. Watergate ended most people's trust of the Presidency; since then, the press has treated them more harshly. The rise of the Christian Right has been polarizing, too. Gay rights have been divisive. I think a combination of all of these have resulted in an Us vs. Them mentality in our country.

Survey/public opinion polls do bear out that trust in institutions was much higher in the 60s and 70s (and likely before that too) and began to decline in the 70s. I do agree with that. However, politics has always been an "us vs. them" game. If you think that anti-immigrant fervor, for example, is really high today, look at immigration to the United States in the early 20th Century. That was a gigantic backlash against legal immigration.

Perhaps it's because I was born and raised in this era of lower trust in institutions, but I don't see more skepticism of institutions as necessarily a bad thing. It seems like the greater trust people had in government, the media, big business, etc. in the past was misplaced - it isn't as if those entities were more moral 50 years ago than they are today...people just trusted them more and now they don't. I don't think it's a bad thing to look at large, powerful institutions and have the stance that you'll trust them after they've done something to earn your trust.

 

[KB5252]

Heh. In two words, Donald Trump.

Donald Trump is the result of not trusting the establishment. A lot had to happen for him to be palatable. That's a very weak take.

Edit: I would also add Obama to that list as well. He was the result of the mismanagement, mainly of foreign policy, during the Bush presidency.

 

[hog88]

And that is the one thing the FFs didn't think of. Career politicians.

I think you are wrong. They warned us about them, what they didn't take into account or foresee is the US citizenry subjugating themselves to them.

 

[hog88]

By all indications, Trump is an unsuccessful businessman because he took bankruptcy four times. Is that so hard to understand? I don't think Obama ever said he was a businessman.

His business entities did, he has never filed for bankruptcy. You guys should really make some effort at understanding how things work.

By your standard Warren Buffet is an unsuccessful businessman.

 

[05_never_again]

His business entities did, he has never filed for bankruptcy. You guys should really make some effort at understanding how things work.

By your standard Warren Buffet is an unsuccessful businessman.

They know how it works - people just latch on to anything and everything negative that can be said about him to see what works. There actually is a decent argument to be made that he isn't all that good of an investor, but the bankruptcy angle doesn't show that at all. It cracks me up which examples people pick to make their arguments with.

 

[BlackCreekVol]

I believe that putting an end to "the American career politician" would solve a lot of our problems... and before anyone points to Joe Biden... yes, he is most definitely, a career politician. We need term limits in the United States Congress. I would propose a maximum of 6 terms in the House of Representatives (12 years) and 2 terms in the Senate (also 12 years). The same person can serve in both... but still only a maximum of 12 years in both, whether served consecutively or not.

This may be the only thing I 100% agree with you on. Politicians should “serve” and then go back to what ever career they came from. I argue that 8 years max would be better across any elected federal position

 

[hog88]

This may be the only thing I 100% agree with you on. Politicians should “serve” and then go back to what ever career they came from. I argue that 8 years max would be better across any elected federal position

I oppose term limits for the obvious reason, if there is someone their constituents feel is going the job for them it's wrong to ban them from voting for them.

I'd prefer congress go back to it's original design and be a part time legislative body. My solution:
1. repeal the 17th amendment
2. limit congress to be in session for only 90 days per year outside of national emergency or a presidential recall
3. pay prorated from current level to the 90 days or actual days in session. provide them housing and meals while in DC
4. no pension or health insurance
5. members are subject to every law/regulation every other citizen is subject to

 

[Purple Tiger]

His business entities did, he has never filed for bankruptcy. You guys should really make some effort at understanding how things work.

Stop being obtuse. Trump is CEO of his companies and has declared bankruptcy in that role. Trump is so inept he lost money in the casino business, which is basically a license for printing money. It takes a special kind of stupid to do that.

If you look at where Buffet and Trump started and where each is today, it's easy to say that the former is a fanstastic businessman and the latter - well, not so much.

 

[hog88]

Stop being obtuse. Trump is CEO of his companies and has declared bankruptcy in that role. Trump is so inept he lost money in the casino business, which is basically a license for printing money. It takes a special kind of stupid to do that.

If you look at where Buffet and Trump started and where each is today, it's easy to say that the former is a fanstastic businessman and the latter - well, not so much.

Lot's of stupid people owned casinos. These 7 are just from Atlantic City.

Failed Atlantic City Casinos

Also Warren Buffet wasn't born into a working class family. He started life on third base much much like Trump.

 

[volbeast33]

There were pockets of America which existed as your friend remembers nostalgically. But there was also a lot of strife. Disparity was rampant. Groups indifferent to the violated rights of others abounded.

That is one of our biggest problems....they tend to create different issues on the things that needed to be corrected back then while screwing up the things that were good back at that time.

 

[MontyPython]

Donald Trump is the result of not trusting the establishment. A lot had to happen for him to be palatable. That's a very weak take.

Edit: I would also add Obama to that list as well. He was the result of the mismanagement, mainly of foreign policy, during the Bush presidency.

Trump ran on a platform of hyperpartisanship. He possesses virtually no leadership skills (other than if Obama did it = bad), and instead has generally reacted to challenges by pitting Americans against one another.

Unlike RINO Trump, a real Republican, George W. Bush, said it best after Donald's insane, dystopian inaugural speech:

"Well, that was some weird sh*t."

Yes. Yes it has been.

 

[05_never_again]

Stop being obtuse. Trump is CEO of his companies and has declared bankruptcy in that role. Trump is so inept he lost money in the casino business, which is basically a license for printing money. It takes a special kind of stupid to do that.

If you look at where Buffet and Trump started and where each is today, it's easy to say that the former is a fanstastic businessman and the latter - well, not so much.

Casinos aren't much of a license for printing money if nobody goes through the door. Trump's screw up on that deal wasn't in how he ran the casinos; it was putting them in Atlantic City.

AC has always been something of a more dingy, more cheesy Las Vegas and when other nearby states started legalizing gambling nobody wanted to go to AC anymore. A ton of casinos there, not just Trump's, closed and filed bankruptcy.

 

[05_never_again]

Lot's of stupid people owned casinos. These 7 are just from Atlantic City.

Failed Atlantic City Casinos

Also Warren Buffet wasn't born into a working class family. He started life on third base much much like Trump.

To be fair if Buffett was born on third base Donald was born 6 inches in front of home plate.

 

[Orangeburst]

Trump ran on a platform of hyperpartisanship. He possesses virtually no leadership skills (other than if Obama did it = bad), and instead has generally reacted to challenges by pitting Americans against one another.

Unlike RINO Trump, a real Republican, George W. Bush, said it best after Donald's insane, dystopian inaugural speech:

"Well, that was some weird sh*t."

Yes. Yes it has been.

What is weird is watching people like you agree with W.

 

[hog88]

To be fair if Buffett was born on third base Donald was born 6 inches in front of home plate.

No argument from me on that.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Trump ran on a platform of hyperpartisanship. He possesses virtually no leadership skills (other than if Obama did it = bad), and instead has generally reacted to challenges by pitting Americans against one another.

Unlike RINO Trump, a real Republican, George W. Bush, said it best after Donald's insane, dystopian inaugural speech:

"Well, that was some weird sh*t."

Yes. Yes it has been.

Seems like he ran on putting Americans first with talk of recalling troops from the middle east, building a wall on the southern border, pulling out of economically disadvantageous international agreements, and slapping tariffs on imports from countries whose idea of free trade is we pay for their stuff and they steal ours. All of those things would be economically good for America but bad for Democrats whose big tent politics relies on racial division and mistrust to win national and swing state elections. If the middle class people of color aren't scared of a racist boogeyman, they might start voting like middle class whites.

 

[Rickyvol77]

I believe that putting an end to "the American career politician" would solve a lot of our problems... and before anyone points to Joe Biden... yes, he is most definitely, a career politician. We need term limits in the United States Congress. I would propose a maximum of 6 terms in the House of Representatives (12 years) and 2 terms in the Senate (also 12 years). The same person can serve in both... but still only a maximum of 12 years in both, whether served consecutively or not.

i agree with this 100%