War in Ukraine

#62,176
#62,176
volfanhill said:
You, once again, are struggling. We have zero obligation in this scenario to do shat. It's a choice. Man this is like the bank situation. You are screaming about something you are ignorant about.
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Nice edit..so it was FDIC . I am 58 YO and I don't know what FDIC is. You need to reread that thread kid
 
#62,178
#62,178
Orangeburst said:
You gotta think beyond what is paper and the reality of an escalation.
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The entire purpose of Article 5 is based around the NATO member being the 'defender', and not the 'attacker'.

Article 5 provides that if a NATO Ally is the victim of an armed attack, each and every other member of the Alliance will consider this act of violence as an armed attack against all members and will take the actions it deems necessary to assist the Ally attacked.

Article 5 carries no obligation to assist a NATO ally, if they are the attacker in a conflict.
 
#62,179
#62,179
volfanhill said:
Kid? What are you 12?. What edit? Good talk.
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You added the FDIC **** just as I guessed. You posted and then added after I replied. That is an edit.
And BTW..I was exposed during the bank stock halting..but whatever.

Have fun at work tomorrow! Might need to go beddie bed.
 
#62,180
#62,180
Orangeburst said:
You added the FDIC **** just as I guessed. You posted and then added after I replied. That is an edit.
And BTW..I was exposed during the bank stock halting..but whatever.

Have fun at work tomorrow! Might need to go beddie bed.
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Let's see if you can be honest for one moment. With your political science degree. Were/ Are you under the impression that if Poland attacks Russia, and Russia attacks Poland territory in response, that we would be required to support them militarily?
 
#62,181
#62,181
volfanhill said:
Let's see if you can be honest for one moment. With your political science degree. We're/Are you under the impression that if Poland attacks Russia, and Russia attacks Poland territory, that we would be required to support them militarily?
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First..I never claimed NATO or the US would be "obligated" by NATO treaty..yall brought that up.
But there would be massive moral and economic obligations. Not to mention there are bases, thousands of US troops, aircraft on Polish soil right now.
This is not as clear cut as attacker and defender and some document that doesn't even have this scenario. Poland is coming to the defense of a non Nato member..and may not even be considered aggressor, but this is all semantical.

When missiles rain on Warsaw or troops roll onto Polish soil..NATO will be in the fight.
 
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#62,182
#62,182
volfanhill said:
You, once again, are struggling. We have zero obligation in this scenario to do shat. It's a choice. Man this is like the bank situation. You are screaming about something you are ignorant about.
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Read what he's saying. I don't think he's saying that we have an obligation to do so. In a roundabout way, he's saying it would be in NATO's best interest to provide military support (not necessarily armed forces) to Poland to prevent Russia from taking it over. Therefore, this COULD possibly happen if Poland attacks and Russia counterattacks.

I think there's a bit of a lapse in communication between you two. I think you both really agree with each other, but are just arguing semantics for whatever reason.

Edit: Might I add, that this would not be an invocation of Article V. NATO would not obligated to provide support.
 
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#62,183
#62,183
Orangeburst said:
First..I never claimed NATO or the US would be "obligated" by NATO treaty..yall brought that up.
But there would be massive moral and economic obligations. Not to mention there are bases, thousands of US troops, aircraft on Polish soil right now.
This is not as clear cut as attacker and defender and some document that doesn't even have this scenario. Ukraine is coming to the defense of a non Nato member..and may not even be considered aggressor, but this is all semantical.

When missiles rain on Warsaw or troops roll onto Polish soil..NATO will be in the fight.
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tenor (4).gif
 
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#62,185
#62,185
21 tanks in one day. I saw Twitter chatter that drones had taken out 10 alone from just drops of cheap munitions. I wonder if the US has done some quick development of more precision drops from drones and shared the tech. The videos I've seen lately are pretty dead on drops. Ukrainians are also probably just getting really good at it too.

 
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#62,187
#62,187
Matt2496 said:
Read what he's saying. I don't think he's saying that we have an obligation to do so. In a roundabout way, he's saying it would be in NATO's best interest to provide military support (not necessarily armed forces) to Poland to prevent Russia from taking it over. Therefore, this COULD possibly happen if Poland attacks and Russia counterattacks.

I think there's a bit of a lapse in communication between you two. I think you both really agree with each other, but are just arguing for whatever reason.

Edit: Might I add, that this would not be an invocation of Article V. NATO would not obligated to provide support.
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The moment he claimed Poland was speaking for NATO this theory blows up. And that was his reaction.
 
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#62,193
#62,193
Let me set the record straight.
My reply was poorly worded as I said he was declaring war for NATO..and I stand by that in a de facto way..not NATO treaty or obligations.
If Poland attack Russia,,NATO is at war. All IMO..You don't like it then we can just disagree.
 
#62,194
#62,194
volfanhill said:
The moment he claimed Poland was speaking for NATO this theory blows up. And that was his reaction.
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His first 2 posts are incorrect. However, I think there's a grain of truth to the point he's trying to make from posts 62,161 and onward. If you exclude those 2 posts, your views and his aren't incompatible.

I'm just trying to be a mediator here.
 
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#62,196
#62,196
evillawyer said:
21 tanks in one day. I saw Twitter chatter that drones had taken out 10 alone from just drops of cheap munitions. I wonder if the US has done some quick development of more precision drops from drones and shared the tech. The videos I've seen lately are pretty dead on drops. Ukrainians are also probably just getting really good at it too.
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#62,198
#62,198
I agree that the US has no obligation under NATO if Poland were to respond on its own accord. However, the immediate threat would be the number of other countries in that region that might feel compelled to join the conflict as well. That cauldron could boil over quickly. I’m guessing phone lines lit up and there have been some Frank discussions between the US and Poland since those comments were made.
 
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#62,199
#62,199
evillawyer said:
21 tanks in one day. I saw Twitter chatter that drones had taken out 10 alone from just drops of cheap munitions. I wonder if the US has done some quick development of more precision drops from drones and shared the tech. The videos I've seen lately are pretty dead on drops. Ukrainians are also probably just getting really good at it too.

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Ukraine really wants some of our cluster bombs. Not for the bombs themselves, but for the enclosed bomblets. They are perfect for this kind of work.
 
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