Vols and a 1-3-1

#1
zansdad

zansdad

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#1
According to an article BTO posted on here the other day UT worked on some 1-3-1 defense in Italy. There have been multiple threads on here debating playing time and line-ups. Does anyone think this development will significantly affect who gets minutes and who doesn't (considering last year defense basically drove the playing time bus). Also, for our resident experts, who goes where? IIRC the guy in the baseline needs to be quick enough to cover both corners but also big enough to guard a guy on the post. Would that be someone like Edwards or Richards or would it need to be someone bigger? If Maymon, Stokes, Edwards, McRae and Golden are on the floor,is this a good lineup for the 1-3-1? Or do you think this is more about defending while also going 4 guards on offense?
 
#2
#2
zansdad said:
According to an article BTO posted on here the other day UT worked on some 1-3-1 defense in Italy. There have been multiple threads on here debating playing time and line-ups. Does anyone think this development will significantly affect who gets minutes and who doesn't (considering last year defense basically drove the playing time bus). Also, for our resident experts, who goes where? IIRC the guy in the baseline needs to be quick enough to cover both corners but also big enough to guard a guy on the post. Would that be someone like Edwards or Richards or would it need to be someone bigger? If Maymon, Stokes, Edwards, McRae and Golden are on the floor,is this a good lineup for the 1-3-1? Or do you think this is more about defending while also going 4 guards on offense?
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Probably a case where we could see edwards at the 4 for a little bit, and also a possibility is this where moore at pg comes to play with his length.

sparty is good with the zone, some input from him on peronnel and what not would be nice.
 
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#3
#3
I'd run a 1-3-1 when you are buying some minutes with a bunch of guys on the floor with good length. He could have a lineup of 6'4 to 6'7 and mess another teams mojo for a couple of minutes, and give trae and stokes some time to rest and trap out of it. Let our studs rest while we change it up a little. Maybe trap out of it against the other teams backup ball handlers.
 
#4
#4
Spartacavolus said:
I'd run a 1-3-1 when you are buying some minutes with a bunch of guys on the floor with good length. He could have a lineup of 6'4 to 6'7 and mess another teams mojo for a couple of minutes, and give year and stokes some time to rest and trap out of it. Let our studs rest while we change it up a little. Maybe trap out of it against the other teams backup ball handlers.
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so youd expect one of maymon and stokes to only be on the floor, or maybe neither?

seems that you only usually have one post on the floor, and hes in the midde, then have an athletic 4 running the baseline. someone like a edwards, or chievous possibly.
 
#5
#5
I would imagine josh would be a good person to play the baseline. 6'6 with athleticism. Edwards would be my other choice.

Edit: Q would also be good.
 
#7
#7
Don't think many sec teams will be known as good shooting teams. If you can take the pick and roll out of a game that has a quick pg eating our lunch, you can change the game by making a team one dimensional.
Honestly, you can practice against a pick and roll until you are blue in the face, but if a pg can play the the picker knows how to play, it can't be stopped by changing who guards who all the time.
 
#8
#8
Spartacavolus said:
Don't think many sec teams will be known as good shooting teams. If you can take the pick and roll out of a game that has a quick pg eating our lunch, you can change the game by making a team one dimensional.
Honestly, you can practice against a pick and roll until you are blue in the face, but if a pg can play the the picker knows how to play, it can't be stopped by changing who guards who all the time.
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A certain team directly to the north of UT has been known to struggle vs the zone as well. Even if that's not one of CCM's main reason for going to the zone, it is a nice extra benefit.
 
#9
#9
zansdad said:
A certain team directly to the north of UT has been known to struggle vs the zone as well. Even if that's not one of CCM's main reason for going to the zone, it is a nice extra benefit.
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The USA Olympic team struggled against the zone in the Olympics and they are the best players in the world. No sense in not having one.
 
#11
#11
I watched this video before but wasn't looking for the 1-3-1. there is only a few seconds of it at about the 1:08 mark in the video. It's the 2nd half of a 44 point exhibition game so it's not a lineup we are likely to see in the regular season. Looks like Golden is the point man of the zone, with Skylar and Murphy on the wings. Q is running the baseline and Yemi is in the middle at the foul line. Not sure what this tells us other than it is actual video of it taking place.

Videos: Vols do Tennessee Waltz in Italy - Knoxville, TN | GoVolsXtra
 
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#12
#12
zansdad said:
I watched this video before but wasn't looking for the 1-3-1. there is only a few seconds of it at about the 1:08 mark in the video. It's the 2nd half of a 44 point exhibition game so it's not a lineup we are likely to see in the regular season. Looks like Golden is the point man of the zone, with Skylar and Murphy on the wings. Q is running the baseline and Yemi is in the middle at the foul line. Not sure what this tells us other than it is actual video of it taking place.

Videos: Vols do Tennessee Waltz in Italy - Knoxville, TN | GoVolsXtra
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32 and 31 are Chievous and Edwards I'm guessing?
 
#13
#13
I played basketball for a former vol player we had about 15 diferent defenses we ran but our most effective was the 1 3 1 we all so ran a full court 1 3 1 press and i ran the left wing .there were many games i had double digit in steals and games were the opposing team only broke half court three or four times in a half.we went 42 and 2 with 1 3 1 as primary defense.but a couple years later a different coach tried to get us to run it but i was trhe only player who rememberd what position to be in and other teams would dribble atr me then before i got to the guy he would throw the ball deep to nottom block and they got lay ups ,the guys were mostly the same ones who were great at it a couple years before but they forgot were to rotate too when the ball was on the opposite wing the guy on other wing would not drop to the block at the bottom of lane.it pissed me off badly that the other players could not remember to go to the right spots on floor.it is a great defense if the guys will rotate.
 
#14
#14
zansdad said:
I watched this video before but wasn't looking for the 1-3-1. there is only a few seconds of it at about the 1:08 mark in the video. It's the 2nd half of a 44 point exhibition game so it's not a lineup we are likely to see in the regular season. Looks like Golden is the point man of the zone, with Skylar and Murphy on the wings. Q is running the baseline and Yemi is in the middle at the foul line. Not sure what this tells us other than it is actual video of it taking place.

Videos: Vols do Tennessee Waltz in Italy - Knoxville, TN | GoVolsXtra
Click to expand...

hadn't seen that video, thanks for posting.

Edwards gets up for rebounds, that McRae dunk down the lane was nasty, and glad to see yemi going through people and dunking instead of being scared or trying to finesse things.

As far as the 1-3-1...all that really tells us is that we will probably see whoever the post is, in the middle. So like I've said, probably only one post on the floor for this defense, I wouldn't expect 2 of maymon, stokes, hall and yemi on the floor together, and whoever it is will be in the middle. I'd expect chievous or Edwards to be the guy running the baseline.

A bit surprised golden is up top, would expect him to be on the Wing and a guy like Moore, Richardson or McRae to be out front, maybe this what just one lineup they tried.

I don't expect it to be played a whole lot, maybe in early games if we get a good lead just to practice it. Other than that, maybe if our bigs are in foul trouble, or just a change of pace type thing. Still though, I like that CCM has taken the time to learn and teach it, speaks volumes about him as a head coach IMO, gotta be versatile and able to adapt. I'd say well probably see it around 5-8 games or so throughout the year, just a guess.
 
#16
#16
bleedingTNorange said:
hadn't seen that video, thanks for posting.

Edwards gets up for rebounds, that McRae dunk down the lane was nasty, and glad to see yemi going through people and dunking instead of being scared or trying to finesse things.

As far as the 1-3-1...all that really tells us is that we will probably see whoever the post is, in the middle. So like I've said, probably only one post on the floor for this defense, I wouldn't expect 2 of maymon, stokes, hall and yemi on the floor together, and whoever it is will be in the middle. I'd expect chievous or Edwards to be the guy running the baseline.

A bit surprised golden is up top, would expect him to be on the Wing and a guy like Moore, Richardson or McRae to be out front, maybe this what just one lineup they tried.

I don't expect it to be played a whole lot, maybe in early games if we get a good lead just to practice it. Other than that, maybe if our bigs are in foul trouble, or just a change of pace type thing. Still though, I like that CCM has taken the time to learn and teach it, speaks volumes about him as a head coach IMO, gotta be versatile and able to adapt. I'd say well probably see it around 5-8 games or so throughout the year, just a guess.
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The foul trouble idea sticks out to me. If Hall doesn't get his head straight CCM might be inclined to go more 4 guards when Maymon and/or Stokes needs a rest. Playing a 1-3-1 with Edwards, Richardson, Moore and Jordy on the floor with one big should be able to hold up pretty well.
 
#17
#17
I think we could use a 1-3-1 for a minute or so to disrupt teams. I like the idea of a high 1-3-1 that is attacking and gets in the passing lanes to make teams throw that long pass.
 
#19
#19
zansdad said:
The foul trouble idea sticks out to me. If Hall doesn't get his head straight CCM might be inclined to go more 4 guards when Maymon and/or Stokes needs a rest. Playing a 1-3-1 with Edwards, Richardson, Moore and Jordy on the floor with one big should be able to hold up pretty well.
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Yup pretty much how I feel as well.
 
#21
#21
bleedingTNorange said:
hadn't seen that video, thanks for posting.

Edwards gets up for rebounds, that McRae dunk down the lane was nasty, and glad to see yemi going through people and dunking instead of being scared or trying to finesse things.

As far as the 1-3-1...all that really tells us is that we will probably see whoever the post is, in the middle. So like I've said, probably only one post on the floor for this defense, I wouldn't expect 2 of maymon, stokes, hall and yemi on the floor together, and whoever it is will be in the middle. I'd expect chievous or Edwards to be the guy running the baseline.

A bit surprised golden is up top, would expect him to be on the Wing and a guy like Moore, Richardson or McRae to be out front, maybe this what just one lineup they tried.

I don't expect it to be played a whole lot, maybe in early games if we get a good lead just to practice it. Other than that, maybe if our bigs are in foul trouble, or just a change of pace type thing. Still though, I like that CCM has taken the time to learn and teach it, speaks volumes about him as a head coach IMO, gotta be versatile and able to adapt. I'd say well probably see it around 5-8 games or so throughout the year, just a guess.
Click to expand...

I had to rewind the video and make sure I wasn't seeing things. He looked powerful on that play.
 
#23
#23
I was one of the biggest proponents last year for us to use a zone as a change of pace defense. So, I'm happy to see this.
 
#24
#24
I will be very surprised if we see ten minutes of zone defense all season long if that?
 
#25
#25
volbeast33 said:
I will be very surprised if we see ten minutes of zone defense all season long if that?
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With some of the crappy teams we play that's a bold statement. I see us probably playing 5 minutes or so in each of those games if they turn into a blow out. Then I do expect to see it against a couple better teams early on so CCM can see how they handle it.

We've got too good of post guys to play it too many minutes, but between foul trouble and needing to get guys a breather, I would expect to see it more than you're assuming.

Jmo
 
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