Vol Offensive Playcalling and the Irony of it all...

#1
utmba93

utmba93

Time for a New Era
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
15,898
Likes
98
#1
I think Cut's calls have always been good--except at the start of a big a game (like the one upcoming with KY, if we win against LSU, and then again in the BCS game) when he has a uncanny ability to go way tooooooooo conservative (e.g. run, run, pass). The other time he falls back into that pattern is when we have a lead. By the time we give up our first few series to run, run, pass against a good team and thus get behind, we have little choice but to pass. This pattern is too predictable. Everyone we play seems to know it... and stop it!


Another related memory I have on this run, run, pass problem is that it predates Coach Cutcliffe in TN football history. Ironically, one of my favorite memories of the CPF era is that his first call as head football coach at TN was to break that long standing pattern with a long TD pass on the first play of a big game.

Please correct my memory if I'm wrong.


Finally, a short pass that widens the field on first down doesn't help much when what we need to do is lengthen the field. Anyone can widen the field... that's the point of the spread, isn't it?
 
#3
#3
Cut's biggest problem these last 2 years is that he abandons the run even when its working. Not that we aren't passing enough.
 
#4
#4
Yep, Vandy never stopped the run we just quit running it. We have three really good backs and we use 5 WR sets, that was just insane.
 
#6
#6
I was going nuts listening to the game (we were driving around looking for a bar that bought the game) on the second drive. You have a touchdown lead and you're already running 5 wide? WHY? That's prime time to run the football. I really thought prior to the missed field goal that we would run all over Vandy, but at the end of the day, I'm glad we walked away with a W.

Anybody remember earlier this decade when Vandy didn't score a point on us for three straight years? Those were some good times...
 
#7
#7
vols kick balls said:
Cut's biggest problem these last 2 years is that he abandons the run even when its working. Not that we aren't passing enough.
Click to expand...

5 wide, but nothing vertical?

That's not all that different from a run with one exception... it opens up space for rushing the ball.

Defense simply covers width of field. As they spread to cover the field, it opens up space for the run. It's all run or short pass.

Go vertical on 1st down... that's my suggestion. Is that the pattern you guys are recommending or are you suggesting we need to try off tackle right or left on first down more?

If we don't rush enough, how can you explain Foster's success—almost 1K this year alone?

We won on Cut's calls yesterday. I liked them.
 
#8
#8
utmba93 said:
5 wide, but nothing vertical?

That's not all that different from a run with one exception... it opens up space for rushing the ball.

Defense simply covers width of field. As they spread to cover the field, it opens up space for the run. It's all run or short pass.

Go vertical on 1st down... that's my suggestion. Is that the pattern you guys are recommending or are you suggesting we need to try off tackle right or left on first down more?

If we don't rush enough, how can you explain Foster's success—almost 1K this year alone?

We won on Cut's calls yesterday. I liked them.
Click to expand...
I do agree we need to go vertical a little more than we do.

Foster does not get the ball enough. He is at 1000 yard because he has been going out there and getting 6 yard a pop. He probably should have gotten to 1000 a couple weeks ago but Cut abandons the run to much.

Yesterday Foster was going for 5.6 a pop but Cut only gave him the ball enough to barely get to the 100 yard mark. Cal game he is averaging nearly 7 YPC and he only gets 13 carries. Against Bama he was averaging a 7 YPC even and only got the ball 13 times. UF only 11 carries (He struggled in the game but you still need to give him the ball). Arky State 12 carries at 5 YPC. UGA game he had a 6 YPC but didnt get it enough to get to 100 yards. Even in the Arky game we went away from giving him the ball.

He has only gotten 20 carries twice this year. That is inexcusable to me. If you have a starting RB that averages 5.5+ YPC that back should get the ball 20-25 times a game. If Foster would have gotten 20 carries a game he probably would have gotten 1000 yards at the homecoming game.
 
#9
#9
vols kick balls said:
Cut's biggest problem these last 2 years is that he abandons the run even when its working. Not that we aren't passing enough.
Click to expand...
working on his legacy as "quarterback builder" to the detriment of the team. However, huge week and I am excited and anticipating being surprised. Hard to overcome conditioning, but I'm trying:dance2:
 
#10
#10
utmba93 said:
5 wide, but nothing vertical?

That's not all that different from a run with one exception... it opens up space for rushing the ball.

Defense simply covers width of field. As they spread to cover the field, it opens up space for the run. It's all run or short pass.

Go vertical on 1st down... that's my suggestion. Is that the pattern you guys are recommending or are you suggesting we need to try off tackle right or left on first down more?

If we don't rush enough, how can you explain Foster's success—almost 1K this year alone?

We won on Cut's calls yesterday. I liked them.
Click to expand...
....FREE KENNY, FREE KENNY, FREE KENNY:pepper:
 
#11
#11
I have a hard time understanding the mindset of cut sometimes. Our defense is clearly not all world so i would think we'd try to run and eat up clock like in the arkansas game. I don't know but trying to balance it out all the time seems to hurt us. If we try this same plan we tried yesterday the kitty kats will kick our butts.
 
#13
#13
utmba93 said:
If we don't rush enough, how can you explain Foster's success—almost 1K this year alone?
Click to expand...
Examples of big time RBs with similar YPCs as Foster

Foster 5.5 YPC, 181 carries, 989 yards

McFadden- 5.6 YPC (Just barely better than Fosters), 272 carries, and a whopping 1519 yards rushing.
Ray Rice- 5.1 YPC (Well below Fosters), 315 carries, 1612 yards
Moreno at UGA (A Redshirt Freshman) - 5.5 YPC, 222 carries, and 1228 yards
Mike Hart- 5.3 YPC, 233 carries, 1232 yards
Justin Forsett- 5.0 YPC, 263 carries, 1310 yards
Rodney Kinlaw at Penn State- 5.3 YPC, 222 carries, 1186 yards
Tashard Choice- 5.3 YPC, 224 carries, 1176 yards
PJ Hill- 5.0 YPC, 217 carries, 1080 yards (Hes also been injured some this year and still has more carries than Foster)
Anthony Dixon at Miss State has a 3.8 YPC and is only 30 yards behind Foster
Damion Fletcher at USM- 5.4 YPC, 239 carries, 1298 yards
etc...

There are a ton of more examples. I stuck mainly to ones that are in BCS conferences and added Fletcher since we played USM this year. It all points to the fact that we do not give Foster the ball enough. Foster has out performed all of these (Except D-Mac) in YPC but almost all are ahead of him in yards because their OCs arent afraid to run the ball.
 
#14
#14
Why are we talking about the offense when the defense is the problem. We moved the ball all day long at will with the exception of three punts and had a lack of offense due to TOP. Vandy controlled the clock until the defense woke up in the fourth quarter. Cut did a good job of TOP when we got the ball with short passes in the forth qtr.

Vandy/UT

Possession Time............... 33:42 26:18
1st Quarter................. 6:30 8:30
2nd Quarter................. 10:05 4:55
3rd Quarter................. 9:55 5:05
4th Quarter................. 7:12 7:48
 
#15
#15
vols kick balls said:
Examples of big time RBs with similar YPCs as Foster

Foster 5.5 YPC, 181 carries, 989 yards

McFadden- 5.6 YPC (Just barely better than Fosters), 272 carries, and a whopping 1519 yards rushing.
Ray Rice- 5.1 YPC (Well below Fosters), 315 carries, 1612 yards
Moreno at UGA (A Redshirt Freshman) - 5.5 YPC, 222 carries, and 1228 yards
Mike Hart- 5.3 YPC, 233 carries, 1232 yards
Justin Forsett- 5.0 YPC, 263 carries, 1310 yards
Rodney Kinlaw at Penn State- 5.3 YPC, 222 carries, 1186 yards
Tashard Choice- 5.3 YPC, 224 carries, 1176 yards
PJ Hill- 5.0 YPC, 217 carries, 1080 yards (Hes also been injured some this year and still has more carries than Foster)
Anthony Dixon at Miss State has a 3.8 YPC and is only 30 yards behind Foster
Damion Fletcher at USM- 5.4 YPC, 239 carries, 1298 yards
etc...

There are a ton of more examples. I stuck mainly to ones that are in BCS conferences and added Fletcher since we played USM this year. It all points to the fact that we do not give Foster the ball enough. Foster has out performed all of these (Except D-Mac) in YPC but almost all are ahead of him in yards because their OCs arent afraid to run the ball.
Click to expand...

Aren't we ranked above all these teams except UGA and since they are so 1-dimensional, we shut them down and blew them out?

Pass it more, Cut, but go deep with the ball and make them cover the entire field! The passes are helping Foster and the running game... and surely he knows that. :good!:
 
#16
#16
Cartervol said:
I have a hard time understanding the mindset of cut sometimes. Our defense is clearly not all world so i would think we'd try to run and eat up clock like in the arkansas game. I don't know but trying to balance it out all the time seems to hurt us. If we try this same plan we tried yesterday the kitty kats will kick our butts.
Click to expand...

As for the defense, our problems this year appear more obvious. We have some young superstars who are learning the game... and I think they're a shining example of great coaching! Just look the progress since Cal!

The defense is what will be required to win out, but with players like Mayo stepping up now (and he's beginning to punish runners), we're on the right track there too!

They shut down the best RB in college football and spoiled his Heisman hopes. That was one helluva defensive effort.

KY will be tough on our secondary, but if our front can get pressure on their QB, we're going to FINISH STRONG!!

Go Vols!
 
#19
#19
richmort said:
Why are we talking about the offense when the defense is the problem. We moved the ball all day long at will with the exception of three punts and had a lack of offense due to TOP. Vandy controlled the clock until the defense woke up in the fourth quarter. Cut did a good job of TOP when we got the ball with short passes in the forth qtr.
Click to expand...

We didn't move the ball at will all day long...

And Vandy helped us out by trying to run away and hide with the lead and they got too conservative.
 
#20
#20
richmort said:
Why are we talking about the offense when the defense is the problem.
Click to expand...

If the D doesn't hold Vandy to only a field goal after that ridiculous backwards pass, then we might not win. This offense disappears for long stretches.
 
#21
#21
utmba93 said:
Aren't we ranked above all these teams except UGA and since they are so 1-dimensional, we shut them down and blew them out?

Pass it more, Cut, but go deep with the ball and make them cover the entire field! The passes are helping Foster and the running game... and surely he knows that. :good!:
Click to expand...
The running game can help out the vertical passing game that you want to see so much. Surely cut knows that:good!:

Passing more really helped us at Cal, UF, and Bama didnt it. We do not need to pass it more. When we are running well and running often to set up the pass is when we are at our best. The last thing we need is to become a finesse passing team that sets up the run with the pass which is what I fear Cut is trying to do. Those passes "helping the running game" help nothing if we never run the ball. In our 3 losses we average 44 pass attempts a game to only 22 rushing attempts. Nice balance there.

In all of our wins combined we average 34 passes a game and 37.5 rushes a game. Much more balance. Much more ball control. Much more efficient. Much more physical. Also much more efficient in the passing game. It is always better to set up the pass with the run that to set up the run with the pass. :good!:
 
#22
#22
richmort said:
Why are we talking about the offense when the defense is the problem. We moved the ball all day long at will with the exception of three punts and had a lack of offense due to TOP. Vandy controlled the clock until the defense woke up in the fourth quarter. Cut did a good job of TOP when we got the ball with short passes in the forth qtr.

Vandy/UT

Possession Time............... 33:42 26:18
1st Quarter................. 6:30 8:30
2nd Quarter................. 10:05 4:55
3rd Quarter................. 9:55 5:05
4th Quarter................. 7:12 7:48
Click to expand...

We only had 322 yards of offense. We had two different stretches of over 15 minutes where we didn't score. Did you watch the game? We definitely did not move the ball that well.

And TOP is the most overrated stat in football.
 
#23
#23
vols kick balls said:
The running game can help out the vertical passing game that you want to see so much. Surely cut knows that:good!:

Passing more really helped us at Cal, UF, and Bama didnt it. We do not need to pass it more. When we are running well and running often to set up the pass is when we are at our best. The last thing we need is to become a finesse passing team that sets up the run with the pass which is what I fear Cut is trying to do. Those passes "helping the running game" help nothing if we never run the ball. In our 3 losses we average 44 pass attempts a game to only 22 rushing attempts. Nice balance there.

In all of our wins combined we average 34 passes a game and 37.5 rushes a game. Much more balance. Much more ball control. Much more efficient. Much more physical. Also much more efficient in the passing game. It is always better to set up the pass with the run that to set up the run with the pass. :good!:
Click to expand...

I agree with almost everything you've said, especially that running helps set up passing as well... and I didn't mean to imply I wanted to become a finesse passing team either. Just add the one thing we've done so little this season... throw the ball deep and do it early in the game before we're getting whipped. AL, FL, and Cal were all bad games for us, but I don't think it's because we didn't try to run against them. We opened all with series of short game/wide field stuff (short passes or runs).

One exception though... ALWAYS is hardly ever correct.
 
#24
#24
I think I remember hearing that our YPC against Bama was somewhere around 5.0 but we abandoned it and then fell behind Is that correct or did I dream that up?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top