'21 VA OLB Naquan Brown

butchna

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In a base 4-3 Mondon would be an OLB and Naquan Brown would be a DE. Making it into a 3-4 just changes the terminology, but they are not projected for the same position. Mondon could play off the line on all 3 downs, Brown would play on the line, hand in the dirt, and as a rusher on obvious passing downs.
They’re practically the same size and neither is slotted for ILB. Pruitt likes the 4 playing 4 concept for his linebackers but hasn’t achieved that yet. If a linebacker puts his hands in the dirt for a 4-3 package, it’s not his full time gig. They move the Edges on and off the line depending on what the offense is doing. Differences between the 4-3 and 3-4 is more than TERMINOLOGY...otherwise it wouldn’t take a season or more to transition between the schemes.
 

Frankwillie87

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They’re practically the same size and neither is slotted for ILB. Pruitt likes the 4 playing 4 concept for his linebackers but hasn’t achieved that yet. If a linebacker puts his hands in the dirt for a 4-3 package, it’s not his full time gig. They move the Edges on and off the line depending on what the offense is doing. Differences between the 4-3 and 3-4 is more than TERMINOLOGY...otherwise it wouldn’t take a season or more to transition between the schemes.
You are correct that moving a LB on and off the line has to do with what the offense is doing, but I could say the same about blitzing a CB, or a FS, or an ILB. It is inherently confusing to mention all of the responsibilities of a particular position based on the offense which is why we say that a DE/EDGE in a 4-3 is a pass-rusher and not a coverage guy. It is easier to speak in those platitudes. If you want to get a little scheme specific, Naquan Brown would be a BUCK/JACK lb and Mondon would be a SAM. The fact that they are practically the same size doesn't mean as much as what their specific strengths and body types are like.

Looking at their 247 scouting evals, Mondon is much better in space as a coverage guy which is why we would want him lined across from TEs (which is how you define a SAM based off of the offense) that are inceasingly more likely to take shots down the field.

The reason it takes more than 1 season to transition isn't just terminology, it's because you are looking for a different size/style athlete, but for actual scheme specific purposes calling someone a DE or a OLB (especially in a multiples defense that Pruitt runs that is rarely in base) is purely terminology.
 

butchna

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You are correct that moving a LB on and off the line has to do with what the offense is doing, but I could say the same about blitzing a CB, or a FS, or an ILB. It is inherently confusing to mention all of the responsibilities of a particular position based on the offense which is why we say that a DE/EDGE in a 4-3 is a pass-rusher and not a coverage guy. It is easier to speak in those platitudes. If you want to get a little scheme specific, Naquan Brown would be a BUCK/JACK lb and Mondon would be a SAM. The fact that they are practically the same size doesn't mean as much as what their specific strengths and body types are like.

Looking at their 247 scouting evals, Mondon is much better in space as a coverage guy which is why we would want him lined across from TEs (which is how you define a SAM based off of the offense) that are inceasingly more likely to take shots down the field.

The reason it takes more than 1 season to transition isn't just terminology, it's because you are looking for a different size/style athlete, but for actual scheme specific purposes calling someone a DE or a OLB (especially in a multiples defense that Pruitt runs that is rarely in base) is purely terminology.
Jack LB’s in our 3-4 scheme include
Deandre Johnson

Kivon Bennett

Tyler Baron

Roman Harrison

Bryan Aiken

Buck LB’s :

Kivon Bennett

Deandre Johnson

Roman Harrison

Tyler Baron

Morven Joseph

Those are EDGE players in our scheme and that is our projected depth chart from USA Today. The only one I would say in question is Tyler Baron who may grow into a 3-4 DL. Maybe with the TE coverage point you’re getting yourself confused with Star responsibilities...which is a different type player supplanting one of the Edge spots. When we’re in our base, a SAFETY will cover the TE. Brown and/or Mondon will be in one of these OLB position group designations.

During recruitment, when we see a prospect listed as DE and they’re smallish and projected to be not so much bigger, then in a 3-4 scheme they’ll play as an Edge. Edge’s RUSH THE PASSER so if we line up in the 4-3? Yeah, call them a DE. But in a 3-4 package they’re not a DL and one of the two big bodies flanking the nose is the DE.
 
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PoweredByTheT

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Jack LB’s in our 3-4 scheme include
Deandre Johnson

Kivon Bennett

Tyler Baron

Roman Harrison

Bryan Aiken

Buck LB’s :

Kivon Bennett

Deandre Johnson

Roman Harrison

Tyler Baron

Morven Joseph

Those are EDGE players in our scheme and that is our projected depth chart from USA Today. The only one I would say in question is Tyler Baron who may grow into a 3-4 DL. Maybe with the TE coverage point you’re getting yourself confused with Star responsibilities...which is a different type player supplanting one of the Edge spots. When we’re in our base, a SAFETY will cover the TE. Brown and/or Mondon will be in one of these OLB position group designations.

During recruitment, when we see a prospect listed as DE and they’re smallish and projected to be not so much bigger, then in a 3-4 scheme they’ll play as an Edge. Edge’s RUSH THE PASSER so if we line up in the 4-3? Yeah, call them a DE. But in a 3-4 package they’re not a DL and one of the two big bodies flanking the nose is the DE.
I mean.... Tyler Baron almost counts as two LBs
 
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Frankwillie87

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Jack LB’s in our 3-4 scheme include
Deandre Johnson

Kivon Bennett

Tyler Baron

Roman Harrison

Bryan Aiken

Buck LB’s :

Kivon Bennett

Deandre Johnson

Roman Harrison

Tyler Baron

Morven Joseph

Those are EDGE players in our scheme and that is our projected depth chart from USA Today. The only one I would say in question is Tyler Baron who may grow into a 3-4 DL. Maybe with the TE coverage point you’re getting yourself confused with Star responsibilities...which is a different type player supplanting one of the Edge spots. When we’re in our base, a SAFETY will cover the TE. Brown and/or Mondon will be in one of these OLB position group designations.

During recruitment, when we see a prospect listed as DE and they’re smallish and projected to be not so much bigger, then in a 3-4 scheme they’ll play as an Edge. Edge’s RUSH THE PASSER so if we line up in the 4-3? Yeah, call them a DE. But in a 3-4 package they’re not a DL and one of the two big bodies flanking the nose is the DE.
I am not confusing Strong Safety coverage with the TE, that's the definition of a Strongside (SAM) LB. I am not trying to be facetious, here's a link Linebacker - Wikipedia
In it, it lists the way that you define a Strongside LB as well as their coverage responsibilities if you scroll down. The reason we call these LBs by other names aside from Weakside (Will), Strongside (Sam), Middle (Mike and Will), JACK/BUCK/EDGE is because of their blitzing responsibilities based off of what the offense shows.

The point is that Mondon will be relied on much more heavily in run support and coverage support than rushing the passer like Naquan Brown. Naquan would also be more likely to slide inside and play DE in depth situations than Mondon would, as Mondon would be more likely to play Will or Mike in situations where depth required it. We are not recruiting them for the same position, except in name only. Jahvaree Ritzie, Korey Foreman, etc would take Naquan Brown's spot, whereas Mondon would take Junior Colson or probably Prince Kollie's spot.

Edited to replace strongside with SAM in the first sentence.
 
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butchna

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I am not confusing Strong Safety coverage with the TE, that's the definition of a Strongside (SAM) LB. I am not trying to be facetious, here's a link Linebacker - Wikipedia
In it, it lists the way that you define a Strongside LB as well as their coverage responsibilities if you scroll down. The reason we call these LBs by other names aside from Weakside (Will), Strongside (Sam), Middle (Mike and Will), JACK/BUCK/EDGE is because of their blitzing responsibilities based off of what the offense shows.

The point is that Mondon will be relied on much more heavily in run support and coverage support than rushing the passer like Naquan Brown. Naquan would also be more likely to slide inside and play DE in depth situations than Mondon would, as Mondon would be more likely to play Will or Mike in situations where depth required it. We are not recruiting them for the same position, except in name only. Jahvaree Ritzie, Korey Foreman, etc would take Naquan Brown's spot, whereas Mondon would take Junior Colson or probably Prince Kollie's spot.

Edited to replace strongside with SAM in the first sentence.
He’ll be lined up outside as an Edge in our scheme. We got guys for Mike and Sam...see other LB commits. Ritzie follows the same path as Baron imo 3-4 DL...but we’ll see. If we end up with either/both of Colson and Prince, they will also be OLB’s. As in the 4-3 with their DE’s, 3-4 edge OLB’s have run responsibilities. Leonard Floyd was considered somewhat of a disappointment for his relative lack of pressure for the Bears but was productive chasing down running backs near the LOS...as an OLB in their 3-4 scheme.
 

Frankwillie87

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He’ll be lined up outside as an Edge in our scheme. We got guys for Mike and Sam...see other LB commits. Ritzie follows the same path as Baron imo 3-4 DL...but we’ll see. If we end up with either/both of Colson and Prince, they will also be OLB’s.
Sounds like we'll have to respectfully disagree. I have no doubt Mondon will rush the passer in Pruitt's scheme, because Pruitt will throw the kitchen sink at everyone, but I envision Mondon fluctuating between a Q. Crouch and Henry T's role this year. Henry's obviously going to take over Bituli's role this year so I expect more pass rush from him as well. Exciting times, and it looks like Brown's the odd man out, whether it's because he doesn't fit the mold, or because we've got better targets we'll see
 
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butchna

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Sounds like we'll have to respectfully disagree. I have no doubt Mondon will rush the passer in Pruitt's scheme, because Pruitt will throw the kitchen sink at everyone, but I envision Mondon fluctuating between a Q. Crouch and Henry T's role this year. Henry's obviously going to take over Bituli's role this year so I expect more pass rush from him as well. Exciting times, and it looks like Brown's the odd man out, whether it's because he doesn't fit the mold, or because we've got better targets we'll see
Crouch was inside by the end of the season...and Toto stays there. Kivon Bennett and Roman Harrison are more relevant examples...they stay outside. What would you classify them as? I’m cool with being respectful with our disagreement.
 

Frankwillie87

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Crouch was inside by the end of the season...and Toto stays there. Kivon Bennett and Roman Harrison are more relevant examples...they stay outside. What would you classify them as? I’m cool with being respectful with our disagreement.
I think Crouch is probably the best parallel to how I would envision Mondon's career to go (outside the RB carries). I am classifying them as Will/Sam LBs in a 3-4 and OLB in a 4-3. Darrel Taylor played as our BUCK/JACK almost exclusively last year, but guys like Harrison, Bennett (especially later in the year), and Deandre got their shots at the role. The main difference is I believe that Mondon will stay on the field in nickel formations whereas Crouch does not, but To'o to'o did. We could probably use Mondon in our nickel defense and have the Will of the base 3-4 (maybe Martavius French or J.J. Peterson?) play the STAR in disguised nickel defenses, meaning we show 3-4 blitz but actually are playing 4-2-5 coverages.

I'm sure Pruitt/ Dansley will develop them best, but that's my opinion.
 

butchna

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I think Crouch is probably the best parallel to how I would envision Mondon's career to go (outside the RB carries). I am classifying them as Will/Sam LBs in a 3-4 and OLB in a 4-3. Darrel Taylor played as our BUCK/JACK almost exclusively last year, but guys like Harrison, Bennett (especially later in the year), and Deandre got their shots at the role. The main difference is I believe that Mondon will stay on the field in nickel formations whereas Crouch does not, but To'o to'o did. We could probably use Mondon in our nickel defense and have the Will of the base 3-4 (maybe Martavius French or J.J. Peterson?) play the STAR in disguised nickel defenses, meaning we show 3-4 blitz but actually are playing 4-2-5 coverages.

I'm sure Pruitt/ Dansley will develop them best, but that's my opinion.
Crouch merely couldn’t find a home last season. Bituli when healthy had one of the two ILB spots sewed up with Toto the other. It wasn’t by intelligent design that he switched between the two. He wasn’t as effective as desired outside and ended up as needed depth whenever Bituli was dinged up or suspended for a half. What you’re intimating might be a possibly for Morven this season.
 

swchandler1988

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five months ago. fake news. seems like we are at least in his top 10 now things change
Read the whole thread. Mims posted that today and it looked like it was something new, I obviously wouldn’t be trying to make it seem like we don’t have a shot with this guy since he’s been all about us on social media
 

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