Update on the Investigation from Danny White

#51

LSU-SIU

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#51
Since they determine the maximum number of scholarships any school can give, I would assume they have administrative control of scholarship numbers overall, including reductions in the case of violations.
No they are not the final say so. Any real punishment done for payments could very well bring the DOJ back into the mix, they have already sent the shot across the bow earlier in the year. Anti-trust has both civil and criminal paths.

UT should offer some low level penalties, bowl ban for one year. Call it a day. The NCAA has limited options at this point in time. The NCAA will basically accept anything at this point, at least as far as payment.
 
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#53

butchna

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#53
If so, then UT needs to go ahead and apply for membership in the Southern Conference, or OVC. The boosters are already leaving the program and as a fan for more than 50 years I am tiring of the cluster that is UT athletics. Thank you Phil Fulmer.
Go ahead of us and find an apartment and child care...we’re right behind. 😎
 
#54

LWSVOL

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#54
Pull quotes from GoVols247 article from JUNE 9, 2021.

"First-year athletic director Danny White provided an update on the situation on Wednesday afternoon, saying Tennessee is in constant contact with its outside counsel and the NCAA regarding alleged recruiting violations that occurred under Pruitt the previous coaching staff. However, White did not have a firm timeline on when the case might conclude or move on to the next phase...

...Tennessee also included a clause in Heupel's contract that automatically adds an extra year to the deal if the Vols wind up with a postseason ban of two or more years or incur scholarship reductions of eight or more scholarships as a result of the investigation, suggesting the potential ramifications of the alleged violations committed by the former staff...

...Chancellor Donde Plowman previously suggested it was unlikely the Vols would have a resolution on their NCAA case with sanctions handed down, either self-imposed or by the NCAA, before the start of the 2021 season, but White during a Zoom call on Wednesday declined to even guess on any sort of target date for the case to conclude...

...We want to come out of this as an example of how NCAA issues should be solved in the future. We are going to operate with the highest level of integrity and hold ourselves accountable for the issues that did occur here. I’m not trying to give you a non-answer answer, but we’re kind of in the same place. Are we closer than we were a month ago? Yes, but I can’t put a timeframe on it because I just don’t know. These things are fluid. Each interview could yield different information that takes on a different turn in the investigation. “Nobody can put a timeframe on it right now.

--- Patrick Brown, GoVols247
concerning. still doing interviews which could lead to additional violations... the holdup is they are still talking to people.
 
#57

ptcarter

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#57
What Fulmer and Pruitt did to this football program is criminal. We all thought nothing could be worse than Doofus or Botch. We said it couldn’t ge worse than Hamilton, Hart and Currie. Pruitt and Fulmer comes along and says hold my beer.

I honestly feel sorry for Heupel in a way.
I don't really. If he's got great coaching in him, he landed at the right place. Head coach at an SEC school is a pretty valued coaching job. If he screws it up, well then..
I doubt Pruitt will ever coach P5 ball again, or he may end up like Dubose at Alabama. Water seeks its level and he coached into the sunset with a high school team. Imagine that . Former Alabama head coach, coaching high school.

You set the the stage for giving him a couple of Mulligans. I'm not going to be harsh in year 1 and 2. Year 3, you have to evaluate not so much the W's and L's, but ask if he's stocking the shelves with SEC quality recruits, and are these guys being developed properly? Pruitt had some beef, but he was paying $$$ for it apparently, and there was no player development with the talent he had. It's easier to be a good coach if you have good players. Right now, I'd say (especially on defense) Heupel has his work cut out for him. Bare cupboard.
 
#58
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#58
What Fulmer and Pruitt did to this football program is criminal. We all thought nothing could be worse than Doofus or Botch. We said it couldn’t ge worse than Hamilton, Hart and Currie. Pruitt and Fulmer comes along and says hold my beer.

I honestly feel sorry for Heupel in a way.
I do feel sorry for Heupel. He needs to get a fair shot, I don't know that he'll get one. Brave man though.
 
#61

LSU-SIU

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#61
So, are these NCAA decision-makers volunteers working only part time? Why do these investigations take so long? Elon Musk can develop, build, and fire off a spacecraft in less time.
Well, I wouldn't expect the NCAA to do anything but agree with whatever UT decides to do. If UT doesn't offer anything, how exactly do they pursue the matter as far as penalties? As I mentioned, I would just offer a sacrificial lamb at this point if I were UT i.e. say something like a one year bowl ban.

-----------> Any penalties dealing with payments could be taken very poorly by DOJ. <---------

Big time college sports is coming to its end in present form. If UT wants to continue to investigate to weed out the people they don't want I guess that is okay, but UT can end this anytime they want really.

The NCAA really has no ability to enforce rules based on compensation, more or less. Game over.
 
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#63

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#63
They being the UT administration or they being the NCAA?
Not sure NCAA is talking with anyone but UT lawyers / administration. UT has been keeping them informed about what they are finding.

Its very disappointing that Plowman indicated the investigation was nearly complete when firing Pruitt yet here we are in June still finding new paths to follow.
 
#64

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#64
No shat. I don’t see why they can limit the scholarships a school gives out as some sort of punishment for violations. Bowl ban? Sure. But not scholarships
they can dole out whatever punishments that the presidents of university members allows them to do. and they have allowed scholarship reductions as a penalty for as long as I have followed college ball, started in 1960.
 
#66

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#66
they can dole out whatever punishments that the presidents of university members allows them to do. and they have allowed scholarship reductions as a penalty for as long as I have followed college ball, started in 1960.
Technically, I can try and rob a bank, that doesn't mean I will be successful at it. DOJ already sent the shot across the bow earlier in the year, the NCAA should not be trying to impose penalties and regulate compensation to players. This is the reason why they have no rules in place for what is about to occur on July 1st. The NCAA is no longer really in this which is why they are crying before Congress.

The "rules" you thought were in place since 1960 simply don't exist anymore. Its hard to envision where the present business model doesn't go away. Not only will the NCAA have to get out of the regulating of commerce to players, they have and will continue to lighten up on transfer rules. (this part has been ongoing for some time now)

There really isn't much the NCAA can do, not realistically. Its over. UT can end this tomorrow if they wished and there wouldn't be much anyone at the NCAA could do about it.... that's the new reality.
 
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#68

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#68
Technically, I can try and rob a bank, that doesn't mean I will be successful at it. DOJ already sent the shot across the bow earlier in the year, the NCAA should not be trying to impose penalties and regulate compensation to players. This is the reason why they have no rules in place for what is about to occur on July 1st. The NCAA is no longer really in this which is why they are crying before Congress.

The "rules" you thought were in place since 1960 simply don't exist anymore. Its hard to envision where the present business model doesn't go away. Not only will the NCAA have to get out of the regulating of commerce to players, they have and will continue to lighten up on transfer rules. (this part has been ongoing for some time now)

There really isn't much the NCAA can do, not realistically. Its over. UT can end this tomorrow if they wished and there wouldn't be much anyone at the NCAA could do about it.... that's the new reality.
So you believe the NCAA no longer has any enforcement authority of the governing body of rules? Does that mean they have no enforcement authority with regards to any violations any more? If so I missed that memo.....and what about the SEC, do they have any authority to impose penalties on member schools for violations? You make it sound as if it’s all about nothing anymore and it’s the Wild West as far as rules, anything goes and no punishments are on deck anymore.
 
#69

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#69
So you believe the NCAA no longer has any enforcement authority of the governing body of rules?
As far as compensation i.e. money to players, that is over. They were trying to trying pass new rules to regulate NIL earlier in the year, DOJ slammed that shut. Previously DOJ has contacted the NCAA to ease up on player transfer restrictions which has been occurring for a number of years now.

Other rules might be able to be enforced for the time being, depending on their nature meaning basic rules for playing, game rules, etc. Precluding or regulating payments, that's gone.

You make it sound as if it’s all about nothing anymore and it’s the Wild West as far as rules, anything goes and no punishments are on deck anymore.
McDonald bags full of money is no longer a NCAA matter. But they can pretend a little longer.

This is why the NCAA mafia is crying to Congress, but not sure what Congress can really do for them. The scam has run its course, this is simply the transition period... where the actors are pretending the old rules apply.

Tennessee could tell the NCAA to **** off as far a paying these player, not much the NCAA can do about it.
 
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#70

i2amavol

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#70
I think it's noteworthy that he said this stuff today because here we are June 9th and apparently it's nowhere near wrapping up. It also seems that it's expanding as people are interviewed and that our plan is to take it up the rear from the NCAA. All in all, what many expected after that initial Plowman press conference but this pretty much confirms our grab our ankles' approach. We can only hope the expanding nature of the probe will take down rivals as well. Wishful thinking probably, but one can hope.
.

Georgia, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss please. Is it just my own perception or is it these guys who are cheating the most - at least in the SEC?
 
#71

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As far as compensation i.e. money to players, that is over. They were trying to trying pass new rules to regulate NIL earlier in the year, DOJ slammed that shut. Previously DOJ has contacted the NCAA to ease up on player transfer restrictions which has been occurring for a number of years now.

Other rules might be able to be enforced for the time being, depending on their nature meaning basic rules for playing, game rules, etc. Precluding or regulating payments, that's gone.



McDonald bags full of money is no longer a NCAA matter. But they can pretend a little longer.

This is why the NCAA mafia is crying to Congress, but not sure what Congress can really do for them. The scam has run its course, this is simply the transition period... where the actors are pretending the old rules apply.

Tennessee could tell the NCAA to **** off as far a paying these player, not much the NCAA can do about it.
I think there is a difference still, in the NCAA, SEC and DOJ between paying players to come to a school and paying them for their likeness AFTER that rules change went into effect, maybe it’s just me, but what you are describing means any school anywhere can pay athletes any sum now to come to their school
 
#72

LSU-SIU

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#72
I think there is a difference still, in the NCAA, SEC and DOJ between paying players to come to a school and paying them for their likeness AFTER that rules change went into effect, maybe it’s just me, but what you are describing means any school anywhere can pay athletes any sum now to come to their school
There is no real difference. DOJ only sent a letter on NIL because that was the rules they were being discussed to try and regulate back in the beginning of the year.

So, the NCAA wanted to make rules for rules that will be broken by the schools and players anyway, DOJ sent a warning letter to cut the crap.

but what you are describing means any school anywhere can pay athletes any sum now to come to their school
Basically where this is at, the transition phase... yes, I would imagine very soon schools will be paying players directly. We'll see how the next few weeks go but its hard to envision an easy out at this point - I can't think of one. Which is why the mafia is crying in front Congress this week, I don't see how Congress can save their present business model.

If the NCAA can do whatever they want, they wouldn't be in front of Congress crying like mafia babies. The schools should not be colluding through the NCAA to stop commerce and competition. <-------- what you are point is evidence of a crime actually
 
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#73

LWSVOL

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#73
Technically, I can try and rob a bank, that doesn't mean I will be successful at it. DOJ already sent the shot across the bow earlier in the year, the NCAA should not be trying to impose penalties and regulate compensation to players. This is the reason why they have no rules in place for what is about to occur on July 1st. The NCAA is no longer really in this which is why they are crying before Congress.

The "rules" you thought were in place since 1960 simply don't exist anymore. Its hard to envision where the present business model doesn't go away. Not only will the NCAA have to get out of the regulating of commerce to players, they have and will continue to lighten up on transfer rules. (this part has been ongoing for some time now)

There really isn't much the NCAA can do, not realistically. Its over. UT can end this tomorrow if they wished and there wouldn't be much anyone at the NCAA could do about it.... that's the new reality.
well that is great news. So now the government is going to make college athletics be like professional sports. I quit professional sports 25 years ago and only pay attention to college athletics. Luckily I'm in my mid-70s so likely won't have to endure the entire movement of the change over of college to professional.

Personally, I like the way things have operated but that is probably just me.
 
#74

LSU-SIU

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#74
well that is great news. So now the government is going to make college athletics be like professional sports. I quit professional sports 25 years ago and only pay attention to college athletics. Luckily I'm in my mid-70s so likely won't have to endure the entire movement of the change over of college to professional.

Personally, I like the way things have operated but that is probably just me.
State government got involved because the schools were not following the law, what really should have happened is criminal prosecution.

college athletics be like professional sports
Big college sports is a business just like everything else, in this case they just don't want to pay market value for their labor. I would call it an open scam.

Personally, I like the way things have operated but that is probably just me.
I'm sure you do, I don't ever recall mafia family member balking at the benefits they receive either. Carmela Soprano never turned away from a new house.

Don't worry the schools (mafia members) will be getting paid twice... once from the crime and than when all money comes for the bailout, funded by you the stupid taxpayer.

Schools ruined college athletics through greed.
 
#75

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#75
That’s all fine to say, and it sounds like it has some teeth when you push your opinion so hard, but I’m gonna take a step back from diving into that pool of yours. Every bit of research I have done on this so far tells me you are jumping to your own conclusions right now. That’s a fact.. not only does the NCAA bar paying recruits, so does the SEC and every other major conference. It’s not the Wild West yet, and let’s hope it never gets there, because once schools can pay recruits whatever they want the college game is done.
 

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