Trickle Down Economics/Debt Deal

#1
altidore17

altidore17

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#1
Don't work. When will the republicans learn trickle down economics has never and will never work? Instead of cutting taxes for the richest people out there, why not cut them more for the working middle class?

They took a simple thing that was raising the debt ceiling and they held the country hostage for months until they finally got what they wanted.. a lot of us middle class people should be worried with this new deal, its going to cause a lot of people to lose work.

And Obama is just as bad as the tea-party for letting them run all over him in front of the world. At this point the we'd be better off appointing Dave Ramsey Emergency Commander-in-Chief before the economy tanks for good.

And before you flame away atleast give me some evidence to the contrary if you would. I'm really not a fan of either party at the moment for what it's worth haha. The democrats didn't have any good ideas either.
 
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#2
#2
altidore17 said:
LDon't work. When will the republicans learn trickle down economics has never and will never work? Instead of cutting taxes for the richest people out there, why not cut them more for the working middle class?

They took a simple thing that was raising the debt ceiling and they held the country hostage for months until they finally got what they wanted.. a lot of us middle class people should be worried with this new deal, its going to cause a lot of people to lose work.

And Obama is just as bad as the tea-party for letting them run all over him in front of the world. At this point the we'd be better off appointing Dave Ramsey Emergency Commander-in-Chief before the economy tanks for good.

And before you flame away atleast give me some evidence to the contrary if you would. I'm really not a fan of either party at the moment for what it's worth haha.
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The top 1/5th of earners in this country pay 70% of the taxes and you think you should pay less and they should pay more? Nice.
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#3
#3
droski said:
The top 1/5th of earners in this country pay 70% of the taxes and you think you should pay less and they should pay more? Nice.
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What percentage of total income does the top 20% make? Honest question.

I saw a chart that said it was 93%. Could that be correct?
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#4
#4
droski said:
The top 1/5th of earners in this country pay 70% of the taxes and you think you should pay less and they should pay more? Nice.
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Who said I was middle class? The Bush tax cuts are one of the major reasons we're in this predicament in the first place, so ill ask again to please come with facts before you make a nonsensical statement. And considering 90 percent of the US is middle class I think its logical to think they would benefit more from tax cuts than the 4 percent that are the wealthiest.
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#5
#5
JayVols said:
What percentage of total income does the top 20% make? Honest question.

I saw a chart that said it was 93%. Could that be correct?
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I believe the latest number is around 40 percent.
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#6
#6
The evil Bush tax cuts had massive tax cuts for the middle and lower class. As a result, over 40% of households pay no income tax and many have negative taxes. Was that not Republican?
 
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#7
altidore17 said:
Who said I was middle class? The Bush tax cuts are one of the major reasons we're in this predicament, so ill ask again to please come with facts before you try to make your point. Considering 90 percent of the US is middle class I think they would benefit more from tax cuts than the 4 percent that are the wealthiest.
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90% cannot be in the middle class by definition.
 
#9
#9
altidore17 said:
Who said I was middle class? The Bush tax cuts are one of the major reasons we're in this predicament in the first place, so ill ask again to please come with facts before you make a nonsensical statement. And considering 90 percent of the US is middle class I think its logical to think they would benefit more from tax cuts than the 4 percent that are the wealthiest.
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Been making this argument in another thread.




JayVols said:
I don't favor penalizing anyone. We all share an interest in improving the economy. Our economy has been the strongest when we have had a healthy middle class. The economic boom of post WWII saw 60% of the population as being middle class. Much demand that fueled the boom came from earnings from war bonds/ earnings from war production and rationing due to the war. People wanted to buy items that were restricted and for the 1st time since the depression, they had the means to do so. The resulting buying spree resulted in a very prosperous time that gives legitimacy that consumers, given the proper buying power, fuels recovery more than producers. Producers simply respond to consumer demands. I am not insinuating any type of class warfare argument. I am simply looking at our economic history. When the middle class struggles so does our economy. Right now, a good portion of the middle class is hurting bad and it is shrinking. Corporate profits are at very high levels, some are at record levels. Not very much is transferring on down the ladder as much as it should. Productivity is at extremely high levels. People that are working are working hard for less. Workers may not invest money, but they surely invest other assets into companies with the return of, to a large
degree, just being thankful they have a job.
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JayVols said:
Ok, I agree that it was across the board cuts, but the largest percentage of cuts were on the top and bottom of the socio-economic ladder.
The lowest rate went from 15% to 10% and the highest went from 39.6% to 35%, cuts of 5% and 4.6% respectively. The more middle incomes saw rate decreases of only 2%. My point is that the middle income/class, if you must, received the lowest cuts, and those people are what drives our economy through spending. I simply think the cuts were not given to the proper groups to spur the economy. I am not anti-tax cuts per se. I am pro-targeted tax cuts as a reward for desired behavior. I would say, perhaps erroneously, that those that were in the 2% cut bracket have spent that money as intended: on goods and services. Those that got the 4.6% cut have not created jobs with their cut.

I really am not trying to be a smart azz. Really. But, in regards to these cuts as executed, I quote John Boehner, "Where are the jobs?" since the cuts?
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#10
#10
JayVols said:
Been making this argument in another thread.
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Just found the political forum today so I didn't see the thread haha but those are good points that many like to forget about. Those who say "but everyone got cuts" like to forget that the wealthiest got most of the cuts in the first place.
 
#11
#11
volinbham said:
The evil Bush tax cuts had massive tax cuts for the middle and lower class. As a result, over 40% of households pay no income tax and many have negative taxes. Was that not Republican?
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Top earners got 4.6% cut. Bottom earners got 5% cut. Those in between got 2%. Don't see that as massive.
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#12
#12
And before someone tries to turn this into a nasty republican-democratic battle.. Can't we just have an intelligent back and forth discussion about our current predicament? I think we can all agree that no one is really winning from this deal.
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#13
#13
JayVols said:
Top earners got 4.6% cut. Bottom earners got 5% cut. Those in between got 2%. Don't see that as massive.
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I believe there was an expansion of tax credits that also impact the middle class resulting in the astoundingly high number of people with zero or negative income tax liability.
 
#14
#14
altidore17 said:
And before someone tries to turn this into a nasty republican-democratic battle.. Can't we just have an intelligent back and forth discussion about our current predicament? I think we can all agree that no one is really winning from this deal.
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who has turned it that way? why bring that up?
 
#17
#17
volinbham said:
I believe there was an expansion of tax credits that also impact the middle class resulting in the astoundingly high number of people with zero or negative income tax liability.
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There should be no negative tax burden, IMO. That's kinda insane.
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#20
#20
volinbham said:
so you want to raise taxes on the poor and lower middle class? :)
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Lol. Just don't see how one should get below zero. I really am not playing class warfare cards here. Just advocating for what I feel is the backbone/driving force of our economy, the middle class.
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#21
#21
BigPapaVol said:
Especially after the idiotic second sentence out of the gate.
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Which are you referring to? I believe I said both parties are at fault, but it is the Republicans who believe in trickle down economics which has never worked or even been proven. Obama should be ashamed at the way he handled this thing.
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#22
#22
altidore17 said:
Which are you referring to? I believe I said both parties are at fault, but it is the Republicans who believe in trickle down economics which has never worked or even been proven. Obama should be ashamed at the way he handled this thing.
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You're the one that started the republicans are idiots line.

As to trickle down not working, check out the poor in America relative to the rest of the world. I'd say trickle down has been overwhelmingly powerful in this country.
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#23
#23
JayVols said:
Lol. Just don't see how one should get below zero. I really am not playing class warfare cards here. Just advocating for what I feel is the backbone/driving force of our economy, the middle class.
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what are you suggesting?

It sure seems that most people wanting the "rich" to pay more don't have an economic theory in mind other than "fairness". I've seen no one who can explain how jacking the upper rate will create jobs or help the middle class in any meaningful way other than temporary good feelings from sticking it to them.
 
#24
#24
altidore17 said:
Which are you referring to? I believe I said both parties are at fault, but it is the Republicans who believe in trickle down economics which has never worked or even been proven. Obama should be ashamed at the way he handled this thing.
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you called Republicans hostage takers and blame Obama for negotiating with hostage takers - sure sounds like a partisan position. then you tell us not to get partisan up in here.
 
#25
#25
volinbham said:
what are you suggesting?

It sure seems that most people wanting the "rich" to pay more don't have an economic theory in mind other than "fairness". I've seen no one who can explain how jacking the upper rate will create jobs or help the middle class in any meaningful way other than temporary good feelings from sticking it to them.
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JayVols said:
I agree with tax cuts, larger cuts even, IF it is based on money reinvested in a company to expand at home and creates US jobs. I am just not too keen on off the top cuts with the hopes that it will be used for the above. If the reasoning for the tax cuts is to create jobs, tie the cuts to that condition.
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Moving the discussion here. I'm getting confused going back and forth. :)

Edit: gotta work tomorrow. Working class fella.:) (a little humor) Continue on the 'morrow. Appreciate the discussion!
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